Ack! Fed up with Algebra, any advice?

[Angel]

I'm so fed up with trying to find the right Algebra program for my 15yo dd! Now it's March and I'm really not sure what to do with her.

 

Background...she completed Mod A of VideoText (took a while) and I had Mod B ready to go when she took the Mod A test/summary. She missed about a third of the problems. I decided to go back and see where her trouble was and revisit those areas. Had her take the test again and she did marginally better. Started Mod B and then realized she just wasn't liking/getting this program.

 

So I order LOF Beginning Algebra thinking she can quickly go through it and LOF Advanced Algebra this year and get back on track. Well, it's March and we are NOT done with LOF Beginning Algebra and I'm not sure she is getting it. She just finished Chapter 8. She is retaining LOF better, at least the areas she is understanding, but I think there is a lot she is not understanding.

 

My plan was to finish up LOF in the next month and have her go through all of the Key to Algebra books. If she's not getting LOF will the Key to books fill in the gaps? I'm afraid to start her in another Algebra I program as she is in 10th already. But is that the right answer? And if the Key to books will be ok after LOF ... what program do I go next for crying out loud!! I have no idea, at this point, what would be a good fit for her.

 

Please Help! :confused:

 

If it's any help, she has mild Asperger's and her and I don't see eye to eye when discussing math. She looks at it backwards. I'm not a math brain, and I can't think that way :glare:

[at the beach]

No been there done that advice. But maybe Teaching Textbooks with the Keys to Algebra would help? I know that TT is expensive, but it moves slowly from what I have heard. I've heard mixed things about VT. The only thing I've heard negative mainly about TT is the scope and sequence and depth, but if your kiddo is struggling, why not give it a try? My dd 10 is diagnosed with NLD and she is loving TT right now.

:grouphug:

[mom2paul]

I have heard good things about Math Relief/Mr Firebaugh. My ds is not strong in math - and we will begin Algebra II very soon.

[Teachin'Mine]

I really can't help as far as curriculum - we've done Saxon all along - but I can tell you what worked for us.

 

For geometry, Saxon didn't have a separate program (they do now), so we used Houghton-Miflin. It was really challenging - not so much in the level of the work, but in how so much wasn't taught and was left to the imagination to figure out possible solutions. At one point, we started just doing half of the problems in each section - even or odd - to move along more quickly. She moved more quickly, but I realized a couple of chapters later that my dd was getting lost. We stopped and went back to the beginning of where she started to get lost and she did all the problems she had skipped. She started to understand better and was able to finish. It took more time going back, but it made all the difference in forgetting about sticking to a schedule and just letting her go at her own pace to understand everything.

 

That was a long way of saying that maybe you can back up to what ever point she started to not understand, and work through the lessons with her. Then let her do all the problems and really get a good grasp of understanding the concepts. Slow and steady is better than hurrying through to get it over with because Algebra II is lurking right around the corner. :lol: HTH

[Miss Marple]

Look at the program reviewed here: http://www.thehomeschoolmagazine.com/Homeschool_Reviews/1631.php. I switched my ds from Jacobs Alg. to this and he is doing great. Maybe it's just a little more age under his belt that caused it, maybe it's the program - I don't know.

 

When I was looking to switch, I contacted the author and she was super helpful. She was familiar with Jacobs and gave me some recommendations for the switch over. The books are very inexpensive so he is writing in the text (there is plenty of white space/room). You will need to buy a test packet separately. The answers are in the back of the book (odds) and there is an answer key for the even numbered problems The answer key for evens is a solution manual showing how to derive the answers.

 

Ds is finishing this text and also finishing geometry this year because of slogging through Jacobs during 8th. I don't know if it is the magic bullet you need, but it might be worth a try. It has worked for us.

 

Here's the link at RR: http://rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1267746784-811253&subject=10&category=6851

Edited March 4, 2010 by CynthiaOK

[StephanieZ]

Are you doing the Algebra alongside her? Are you checking her comprehension/competency frequently (at least once a week)?

 

I don't know which program is the best -- there are lots of recommendations out there. I went with Thinkwell and we're happy with that, but so far as book-based, it seems that Jacob's was a recommendation that might be solid, but "easier". . . But, I don't know that the choice of a book is as vital as ready access to an involved teacher/tutor.

 

Algebra is tough stuff for a lot of kids and is a lot more challenging than elementary level math.

 

I find that for algebra and above, I have to be willing to dig in and understand it and help them regularly. I am a mathy person, but even so, it takes more planning and effort on my part to be able to help with algebra and above than elementary math (which I could always just pick up and teach.)

 

Self teaching doesn't cut it for most kids at that point. . . Even though we used Thinkwell for Algebra (which is video based and self-grading on the computer), I had to make sure to be readily available to walk dd through a section when it was tricky for her. Sometimes, she'd make if for weeks w/o needing my help, then get stuck. . . so I'd have to take the time to review the chapter, reteach the section she was stuck in . . . I realized that it just isn't fair to expect a kid to self-teach something like Algebra w/o a real "teacher" . . . so I stepped up and was the teacher. It takes time.

 

If you can't (or don't want to) put in the time to really be involved with the teaching on a daily basis, then I'd suggest outsourcing to a tutor, or even placing her in a school classroom if your school district allows part time enrollment. Several friends did that for their highschoolers for math and it seemed to work out pretty well. I hire a spanish tutor every other week as I wasn't willing to learn it well enough to teach it. . . but for math, I'd think you'd want to start with twice a week and then perhaps if things start to smooth out, you can go down to once a week. . .

 

HTH

[Angel]

Thanks for the advice. Today pushed me over the edge, I think.

 

I am NOT a mathy person. I have two problems in teaching my dd Algebra (other than I'm not mathy :glare:). 1. We think totally different. I cannot even begin to figure out how she looks at a problem. I look at a formula, follow the rules, and solve the problem. She wants to know why they have a formula and how did "they" decide that would work, etc., etc. This makes it very difficult for me to help. 2. I don't understand some of LOF. :o The chapters that I totally understand, I can help with, but there have been a couple that I'm just lost. I understood VideoText. Fred's too abstract for me.

 

As to self-teaching math at this level. Yes, I understand that that is why she is struggling. I'm trying to help the best I can. But outsourcing is just not an option for many different reasons, and I need a program that explains the Algebra very well for her to learn or me to teach. Probably one that does both.

 

It sounds like maybe going through the Key to Algebra books won't be enough if we complete LOF :confused:

 

I have been browsing TT. I don't care if it's a little behind. Are the explanations good? I am planning to switch my younger dd to it actually.

 

I really appreciate the insight and help.

[3andme]

You might take a look at Kinetic Algebra as well. I haven't used it with my ds yet but there have been some good reviews by others and I liked what I saw online. It seems to have some graphic features which may appeal to more of a visual learner. You can request a demo of a whole chapter if you want to get a real feel for it.

[Susan C.]

I just saw a review for yourteacher.com that gave this a very good review.

 

They have a few day long free trial and you can see if it works. Then it looks pretty affordable.

[SonshineLearner]

Do you not like VideoText? You can purchase one level to see if it works... at least she could use it by herself. I bet my daughter could tutor her... too bad you're not here. (Oregon:-) Perhaps look for a "mathy" type person at a highschool... someone who could explain it another way?? Look for the engineers... you're sure to find a match... Perhaps some retired patient... slightly aspie type person?? :-)

[Retired]

I have heard good things about Math Relief/Mr Firebaugh. My ds is not strong in math - and we will begin Algebra II very soon.

 

Math Relief is wonderful! Well worth the money.

[Matryoshka]

I'm going to give Lial's a try with my least-mathy dd. I hear it has very clear, step-by-step instructions, and my dd liked the Video tutors that you can buy for it.

 

I had also showed her Videotext, and she couldn't stand it. I had been thinking of using Fred, but I was worried she'd get confused completely on her own, and as you say, it's hard as a teacher to pick Fred up mid-stream and figure out where your kid's having the problem.

[tex-mex]

Are you doing the Algebra alongside her? Are you checking her comprehension/competency frequently (at least once a week)?

 

Algebra is tough stuff for a lot of kids and is a lot more challenging than elementary level math.

 

I find that for algebra and above, I have to be willing to dig in and understand it and help them regularly.

 

Self teaching doesn't cut it for most kids at that point. . .

 

I realized that it just isn't fair to expect a kid to self-teach something like Algebra w/o a real "teacher" . . . so I stepped up and was the teacher. It takes time.

 

If you can't (or don't want to) put in the time to really be involved with the teaching on a daily basis, then I'd suggest outsourcing to a tutor, or even placing her in a school classroom if your school district allows part time enrollment. Several friends did that for their highschoolers for math and it seemed to work out pretty well. I hire a spanish tutor every other week as I wasn't willing to learn it well enough to teach it. . . but for math, I'd think you'd want to start with twice a week and then perhaps if things start to smooth out, you can go down to once a week. . .

 

HTH

 

:iagree: We do TT: Algebra I and to be honest -- I have to keep up with the lessons to get an understanding of why my son makes a mistake for daily work. Nowdays, I will get 75%-90% of the errors and go over the concept with son. The ones that stump us both force us to resort to the DVD for answers. LOL So far, TT is fine. It works for son. You cannot have a high schooler complete a math program by themselves. But we will be working together to get the book done! ;) I would suggest a tutor or ALEKS?

[oujisan]

We switched to Teaching Textbooks this year since my son struggled so much with the Kinetic books algebra last year. He didn't learn anything from the Kinetic books. It required the student to do a lot of figuring it out on their own. My son doesn't do well with that. I can do algebra, but I often couldn't figure out what the lessons wanted.

 

This year with the Teaching Textbooks, he is able to do it by himself with only occasional help. I didn't buy the CDs, so I don't know if they help any more than just the book alone. We will definitely be using TT for the rest of his high school math. http://www.teachingtextbooks.com has sample pages, and http://www.christianbook.com has different samples including lesson one of algebra one in case you need to see what level the book starts at.

 

If you want to stick with what you are using, you might like a reference book called Algebra to Go. See if your library has it. I believe there are sample pages on Amazon.

[TravelingChris]

I strongly recommend a tutor for your child. That could be another family member who understands Algebra better. You have two main problems- you admit you aren't good at Algebra yourself and then you say your daughter thinks about Math in a very different way from you. Nsw if she is in Chapter 8 of LOF, I believe that is 2/3 of the book. If she is liking it and understanding it, have her take control of the situation and contact the author when she doesn't understand. Adding something like ALEKS may be helpful since it doesn't depend on you. As someone else in another thread pointed out, the main problem with students in math and science classes in college is that they never got Algebra. Now there is one more avenue you could explore considering her age (she is a 10th grader, right? if not, I wouldn't do this). It may behoove you to take a break from Algebra, do geometry (which would seem to suit her way of thinking about math better and by the way, so would LOF since he incorporates proof much more than most other Algebra texts) and then come back to finish Algebra 1 and continue on with Algebra.

 

One more thing, are you using the home companion to Algebra 1 along with the LOF text? If not, that has a whole lot more problems and more answers.

[kiana]

Yes to both.

 

From the way you say your daughter thinks, it seems she would benefit from someone who understands both how to work the formula and why the formula works, and could explain it to her.

 

Also, you could take a break and work geometry, which, if proof-oriented, might click with her better, but she's going to have to really learn algebra 1, or else algebra 2 will be a rather pointless exercise in memorizing just enough to pass the tests.

[Angel]

Thank you for all the advice. I am mulling over what might be the best course now. Yes, she is in 10th grade this year. After a night's sleep I realize that I am as frustrated by my inability to help her as I am by everything else. When I bought VT for her, I really thought it would help. I already knew at that point (after 5-8th math) that she and I didn't think on the same wavelength in math.

 

She is not on a college track at the moment. Possibly cc classes after graduation for photography and possibly cosmetology school. But I wanted her to get through Algebra I, II and Geo.

 

Dh was supposed to take over the Algebra for me last year. However, his job has him a little busier than anticipated these last two years and he doesn't have the time to help.

 

I am concerned about switching Algebra courses one more time for Algebra I. If I knew it would help for sure, then I would order something else today, but I don't want her to be even further behind.

 

I will definitely think about starting Geometry and coming back to Algebra. I did Geo in school in 9th and then redid Algebra I in 10th and then on to Algebra II in 11th. That's all the math credits that were required then and I didn't want to hurt my gpa so I didn't do math my senior year. I liked doing the Algebra's back to back.

 

I really appreciate the responses. Thanks for trying to help me out.

[Robin in DFW]

After "attempting" Saxon Algebra 1 twice, doing all of TT Algebra 1 (dd felt it was too easy) and TT Geometry, dd requested a different approach. I happened to have older dd's CC Intermediate Algebra text (by Tobey and Slater...would have used Lial's had it been on my shelf).

 

This has been the BEST curriculum switch EVER!!!!

 

Dd is mostly self-teaching...she prefers it that way. Dad helps if she needs it, which is rare. He does the grading and points out errors, etc. She corrects every problem missed. She also uses the digital video tutor cd-roms.

 

I have also switched my ds12 to Lial's Basic College Math from Saxon and things are going GREAT for him as well.

 

The explanations are so thorough and there are plenty of problems for additional practice if needed. We do the odds and save the evens for extra.

 

You can usually pick these books up at a used bookstore (1/2 Price Books) or online for CHEAP! I ordered the digital video tutors and solutions manual from the publisher.

 

hth,

Robin

[Leonor]

I lost a lot of time as well because VideoText was not a good fit for my son. I stopped in Module B as well.

 

We switched to TT and it has been great for us.

 

However, in my area the homeschool tutor that I know my friends have used with great results for Math uses the Key to Algebra.

According to a neurotherapist I know, who homeschooled her son and had the same experience trying to teach Algebra to her son who later at the age of 20 became a Math major, recommends Keys to Algebra because her friend who is an MIT grad uses it as well to tutor. Now my neurotherapist friend is hearing a lot of good things about TT from her clients as well.

 

If money is not an issue, I would recommend TT. If not Keys to Algebra. You can find TT used on the boards, vegsource, and e-bay.

 

Hope that helps.

[EKS]

VideoText was a disaster here. Jacobs worked extremely well for my son, but I felt confident teaching it and my son and I generally think about math the same way AND that way is apparently similar to how Harold Jacobs thinks about it (at least for algebra, geometry is a whole other story).

[fishmummy]

Our family made the switch from Saxon to Math-u-See. Great results..we only went to Trigonometry. Children had no problems either with the SAT/ACT work or their college courses. None of them were Math majors , though. My youngest son has used Math-u-See until this past year when I was given a copy of year 6 Teaching Textbooks...he really loves it and I have heard great things from others who have used the higher levels. I suggest looking/borrowing/ books that introduce the concepts your daughter is struggling with in a new manner....I have loved brushing up with Key To Algebra and they are not that expensive...Please make sure she understands the basic concepts before you move on to anything more difficult....

 

wendy