Should we skip BJU Life Science or Earth Science?

[Handmaiden]

I'm still obsessing over science. Thanks for all your input so far! :001_smile:

 

Ds (6th) is currently going through Apologia General Science, but starting in fall (7th) I'd like him to undergo something more rigorous like BJU. He is leaning toward engineering but is also considering science (likely physics or astronomy, not biology...but it's too soon to tell). He loves science.

 

I am considering BJU Life Science or Earth & Space. Does Life Science overlap Apologia General Science in content a lot? In addition to basics like the scientific method, GS covers DNA, cells, classification, human anatomy. It also covers and geology, paleontology, fossils.

 

Would it make sense to skip Life and go into Earth & Space or another science topic? Or is it worth it to go in depth with Life and skip Earth & Space? Ds is interested in both topics but gets bored when he covers things he already knows. General Science seems like it touches a bit on both topics.

 

FWIW, we're probably doing Conceptual Physics or Physical Science in 8th, then Chem > Bio > Physics > and so on.

 

I'm very thankful for the wisdom of the parents on this board! Thanks in advance!

[Michelle in AL]

My kids both did BJU Life Science in 7th. One went on to do AP Biology in 9th and did very well. My next child will be doing Biology next yr. I chose Exploring Life for her and it is very close in content to BJU Life science. There's a lot of topic overlap and a little extra in depth coverage in Exploring Life. BJU provided a very good foundation and mad a difficult course much easier. I'm not sure Apologia General would give you that in depth of coverage.

 

Is Earth and Space BJU's physical science? I highly recommend choosing a strong physical science program in 8th if you plan to cover biology in 9th. A strong physical science program should cover the composition of the atom including the different electron and energy levels, isotropes, physical and chemical properties of elements, bonding, the formation of compounds, solutions etc. This will make chemistry and biology a lot easier.

[Michelle in AL]

Ooh, sorry, I didn't read far enough. I see you're doing physical science in 8th. Did General Science cover tetonics, weather, composition of minerals etc?

If so, I'd choose Life Science over Earth and Space.

[Handmaiden]

Ooh, sorry, I didn't read far enough. I see you're doing physical science in 8th. Did General Science cover tetonics, weather, composition of minerals etc?

If so, I'd choose Life Science over Earth and Space.

 

It doesn't appear to cover those topics. That's what I'm torn about--General Science seems to cover a little of everything.

[specialmama]

:lurk5:

[HollyDay]

Just an idea..... We had a meeting IRL locally about high school. The speaker highly recommended not using the 7th grade BJU Life Science. He suggested getting the high school biology and stretching it out for both 7th and 8th.

[Handmaiden]

Holly, did the speaker say why he felt that was a better idea? I'm intrigued by this idea...

 

Just not sure I want to spend 2 years on biology.

 

My ds is really interested in studying physics and/or chemistry, so I'm hoping to cover one of those areas (or physical science) during 8th before we hit high school.

 

I'd love to hear more about his reasons for the recommendation! :)

[HollyDay]

Sure, I can tell you a bit more. This speaker and a few ladies in the group, felt that BJU 7 (life science) was good, but was very similar to Biology. I've not seen the biology text myself, but it was thought that there was enough similarity that you could omit the 7 without a problem of holes or gaps. They also said that the high school biology was very intense and difficult to complete in 1 year. Since there was no math requirement, they suggested switching the 7th grade program for the 10th grade. By doing this, you can give high school credit early and not have to rush such a demanding text.

 

The scope and sequence they were recommending was:

7th- Biology (high school level)

8th - finish Biology

9th - Physical Science

10th - Chemistry

11th - Physics

 

If meeting math requirements became a problem, then they suggested either a unit study of interest (like one of the Apologia advanced texts), or, you could just not do science the 11th grade year. By omitting science the 11th grade year, the student could focus on math and prepare for physics the 12th grade year. Several moms said the omitted science the 11th grade year which allowed their dc to really dig into the more complex math studies. Several other moms said they did Apologia Marine Biology or Advanced Chemistry.

 

Interesting concept........HTH

[Handmaiden]

You're right; it is an interesting sequence! Another alternative to consider...you've given me food for thought.

 

Btw, what were the qualifications of the speaker?

 

Thanks!

[HollyDay]

He was an engineer (locally). He and his wife had either completely homeschooled all their children through high school or were in the process. He was not an "expert" but he was experienced. Some of the ladies who joined the discussion were also experienced moms. No teacher certificates or anything like that......

 

It was a gathering designed to encourage families to continue through high school. They were trying to say science should not seem so scary.

[Janet in WA]

The scope and sequence they were recommending was:

7th- Biology (high school level)

8th - finish Biology

9th - Physical Science

10th - Chemistry

11th - Physics

 

If meeting math requirements became a problem, then they suggested either a unit study of interest (like one of the Apologia advanced texts), or, you could just not do science the 11th grade year. By omitting science the 11th grade year, the student could focus on math and prepare for physics the 12th grade year. Several moms said the omitted science the 11th grade year which allowed their dc to really dig into the more complex math studies. Several other moms said they did Apologia Marine Biology or Advanced Chemistry.

 

Interesting concept........HTH

 

Along with concerns about whether a 7/8 grade student is really ready for the rigor and depth of BJU's Biology text (some would be, many would not), there is also the fact that some universities' admissions requirements would not be met by this schedule. My son's first choice university (University of Washington) was one example.

[PeterPan]

Handmaiden--You might like to squeeze that BJU Earth Science into your sequence some year if you're especially concerned about creation science. They really delve into it that year.

 

I second the concern about doing bio in junior high like that. I'm all for it if you go ahead and do AP Biology or something else in high school. However I don't think you should expect prospective colleges or universities to count that junior high work toward admission. The one I worked at routinely crossed off anything on the transcript that was before 9th or not in the 4 years shown.

 

My own small thought, as I had been researching this some time back, was to use the BJU Life Science as good prep to go directly to an AP level study for Bio. You could research that option. Some people on the boards here have talked about doing that with the BJU biology and kicking it up with a few extras. It would be something to consider.

 

I think your goals should be to get in all the math you can, teach him to write as well as you can, and then the science. My has a degree in engineering, and he would say it was his math background, not science, that bit him when he got to college. His writing skills were solid due to a good teacher. Oh, and try to get him some experience in the field. My dh, who grew up in the business, said his perspective on courses was very different from his classmates because he KNEW WHERE IT WAS GOING. Just knowing what you want to do (or knowing what you don't because you've tried it for a summer) is helpful.

[Handmaiden]

Thanks, Janet, for that feedback. Very much appreciated.

 

Elizabeth, you brought up a good point about creation science. I've been thinking a lot lately that ds will be encountering a lot of evolutionists if he pursues a science field. He's quite grounded in creation vs. evolution for his age, but perhaps I shouldn't assume that his foundation is as strong as it needs to be.

 

If you were to do BJU Life Science as prep for AP Bio, what grade were you thinking of doing Life? And is your dd going to do Phys Science? What's your tentative sequence?

[PeterPan]

We have the BJU 6 right now that we need to buckle down and complete. We've been doing other stuff instead. I haven't looked over the Life Science yet, so I don't know if it would work to keep going at that grade ahead pace. If so, then it's a pretty straightforward progression. (Life Science in 6th, Physical Science in 7th, Earth Science in 8th, Hewitt's Conceptual Physics in 9th, Chemistry in 10th, AP Bio in 11th, AP Chem or Calc-based Physics or whatever in 12th). Thing is, I REALLY want to do Earth Science next year. That could change between now and fall, but right now that's where I'm at. Guess I'll know once we go to the convention. I don't know if it's practical to bring that BJU Earth Science text down to a 6th grader's level, even if she is a bit advanced. Maybe my dd will see the Life Science and fall in love (which I doubt).

 

See the other thing with the BJU science is the lower levels burn you. They are surveys and they just do a lot, never really satisfying. We've worked at it and made them pop, but still. So I don't know how much that transitions at the junior high level, and I don't know when she'll really be ready for that. I've got her doing the lit 7 and math 7, but that doesn't really mean anything, kwim? You have to be ready for those things and want to learn them. Right now she's happier playing with her brother, sewing for her dolls, etc. that slugging through textbook science. What I'm probably going to do is try to put together something with some of the GEMS guides (search the boards to find this) and use a textbook on the side to flesh it out. She loves hands-on. Going into high school and AP sciences, I found myself wishing I had had more hands-on experiences, experiences that you could connect to the things you were reading about. Of course I totally missed Physical Science in junior high due to changing schools and different sequences. That was SUCH a bad deal, oh my. Imagine going into AP Physics (at my school you could skip regular level and go right to AP) and not having a CLUE about anything. So I think a lot of hands-on with a little bit of book learning to connect it is a good balance for junior high, not the reverse. In high school you go to a lot of book learning. At least that's my theory. It's sort of hard to reconcile that with all the convenient sounding textbook options, kwim? But truly, if you missed life science and went right into Biology in high school, would the world fall apart? Whereas, I can tell you from personal experience a student is at a distinct disadvantage going into AP chemistry with utterly no chemistry background, haha. There's too much they assume you've seen before. It's that hands-on (or lack of it) that comes back to haunt you. So if you do junior high and hit a lot of hands-on and learn a lot of the why's behind it, I think you'll be fine for high school, even if you do it in a bit of a non-standard way, perhaps even better if you do it in a bit of a non-standard way. I mean, in a sense, how fun is it to constantly be repeating content when you're an advanced dc? I know that's what we're sick of, that constant feeling that you just DID ecosystems or whatever they're talking about a year or two earlier. They employ a saxon-like incrementalism to it, mercy.

 

Oh, the other thing that hasn't been discussed here. My experience with the BJU science thus far (3-6) is that *you* really have to engage with it to bring it to life. If we do the Life Science, I'll have to plunk out for the dvd's, ain't gonna try to teach it myself. It has nothing to do with whether my brain can comprehend the material. It's just the simple problem that I WON'T get it taught and that it's WAY more fun when properly taught.

 

Was that any help? I'm sort of in denial about all this, haha, her getting older. To me she's still in 3rd grade and we have tons of time to do fun things. I hate the thought that she's being launched into this sequence of drudgery too soon. I keep pondering how I could get her out of the box and whether it would actually get done or not. A dvd series, that would get done, lol.

[Handmaiden]

Thanks, Elizabeth. I appreciate your thoughts...very helpful! We definitely will be either using the BJU DVD or signing up for an outside class using the text. I know my limitations, and this kid has already surpassed my abilities in science. What is your reasoning for doing Physical Science in 7th?

 

I wish I had started the BJU science in 6th instead of next year so I could squeeze in all 3 middle school levels (Life, Earth/Space, PS). He's doing Apologia General Science right now. He likes it, but he likes any kind of science so that's not surprising. I'm not that thrilled with it...it's kinda like BJU science in lower levels, a broad sweep.

[Miss Marple]

Along with concerns about whether a 7/8 grade student is really ready for the rigor and depth of BJU's Biology text

 

I would never recommend BJU biology for 7/8 grade. A student would have to be extremely talented in order to work through that material at the level it should be worked through. We used it in our co-op a couple of years ago - it was taught by a local veterinarian. It is very rigorous. I noticed a distinct disadvantage in the kids who had not had chemistry before BJU biology.

 

I'm curious why anyone would recommend high school biology (particularly a course as rigorous as BJU) before a junior high/early high school physical science course. That just seems backwards. In addition, the universities we looked at wanted biology in high school. They don't want high school biology taken early. And the ones we looked at didn't want physical science as a high school level science. I find the proposed schedule very odd :-)

[Miss Marple]

I think your goals should be to get in all the math you can, teach him to write as well as you can, and then the science. My has a degree in engineering, and he would say it was his math background, not science, that bit him when he got to college.

 

Agree! The more math they have the better they will do in college level science. Ds#1 is a petroleum engineering major and is doing great - mostly because of his math background prior to college level science. In fact, he was telling me this weekend to make sure his brothers get through Calc 1 before starting college.

[angela in ohio]

I would skip Life Science. Or get both programs (if you will be using them for future dc anyway) and make up a combined year of the units that are new out of each book.

 

My dd did General Science in 6th, Earth & Space in 7th, and Life Science in 7th/8th (she finished it, and is starting Physical Science to complete before the fall, when she starts Biology for 9th.)

 

Future dc will start BJU in 6th in order to do one per year and still hit Biology in 9th.

 

I found Earth & Space and Life Science to be roughly the same difficulty level (I would probably say Life Science if I was forced to choose the more rigorous.)

 

I can't imagine why anyone would do Biology over two years in 7th and 8th. There are many possible consequences, and I don't see any benefits.

[Handmaiden]

Thanks Cynthia and Angela. The more I think about it, I don't think I will biology for 2 years would work for us. My ds would get bored...he really wants to get to physics or chemistry!

 

Angela, is there a reason you swapped the order of Life Science & Earth/Space?

Edited March 8, 2010 by Handmaiden

[angela in ohio]

Angela, is there a reason you swapped the order of Life Science & Earth/Space?

 

My dd really wanted to study that (we had just moved to the country and had a new telescope for our new beautiful sky,) and when I looked at them, they looked like such a similar difficulty level, I saw no reason not to. :001_smile:

[PeterPan]

Angela--So if in the future you'll start the BJU science in 6th, are you going to start with Earth Science or Life Science? See that's what we're thinking through for next year. It's kind of a funny pickle, when you think about it. We've always done the BJU stuff a grade (or a bit more) ahead, just to keep her to where she enjoys it. I'm not sure, if we do the 8th gr text in 6th, whether leaving that 7th gr text to 7th will work out well, if that makes any sense. Man, I'm not meaning that the way it sounds, lol. I'm just thinking out loud here. It's just our reality. At the beginning of the year she would do the 6th gr science at either normal pace or two lessons per day. We weren't enjoying it, so we paused to do some other things. Today I whipped it out because she was a bit under the weather and needed something more fun, and it's now easy enough to her that she sat there gleefully plugging through a whole chapter's worth. Go figure. So while I'm not thrilled about the thought of Life Science next year, I DON'T want to save it a year and find it a poor fit. On the other hand, I don't recall especially enjoying it in school. (I went to a cs for 6th-8th, so we did the BJU6, life science, and earth science, totally missed physical science, a HUGE mistake). It's sort of abstract stuff kids aren't necessarily as interested in, not when they're surround by woods and trails and stars and rocks and things. But maybe I just need to think harder and Life Science would be fun? Maybe those dvd's really make it pop? If there's at all the money, the dvd's make a lot of sense to me. I just don't see us getting it done well otherwise. Or maybe I'm wrong? And maybe the earth science videos are boring? Hmmm, can't wait for the convention so we can see! I told dd we'd sort it out there. We're both hopeful maybe the junior high levels have more meat and more to hold us.

[angela in ohio]

We found the Life Science very interesting, but that is dd's interest. She wants to go into the medical field (or teaching.)

 

I really don't think, challenge-wise, it matters which you do first. I probably won't have to decide with youngest, as the plan is to send him to school in 7th or so. I would probably just look at his interest level and pick one or the other, if he doesn't go until 9th.

[PeterPan]

Ok, now you've got me curious. Why are you planning to send your youngest off at 7th gr? Is it because he's a boy?

[angela in ohio]

Yes. We are those conservative religious freaks who think young men should be raised differently than young ladies, so the girls will stay home, but he will go to school. :D

[PeterPan]

You know, I have NOTHING against that. I've wondered the same thing for years, whether at a certain age it was better to get a son under the influence of more men. Unfortunately, around here the cs is largely woman-dominated, meaning I might as well keep him home. But different, yes, absolutely. It's why I let my dd quilt and sew for hours every week and count it as school but plan to do a totally different path with my boy. I'm not really sure how we'll handle that when he gets older. The right thing to do will probably be evident at the time. I'm hoping maybe some serious effort into male apprenticeship will take that spot.