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Construct a S&S for Grammar from Vintage e-books


Medieval Mom

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Average (according to Victorian Standards) Student

2nd: Primary Lessons in Language and Composition (begin in 2nd half of 2nd and don't worry about finishing before third, or begin in 2nd and take slowly.) With Pencil and Pen could be substituted.

3-4-5: First Book in English

5th: Speaking and Writing (concurrent with 3rd section of First Book)

6th & 7th: Introductory Lessons

8&9th: School Composition (concurrently)

10-12th: Writing in English

 

Hi Medieval Mom,

 

Now I'm confused. I thought the Maxwell books would be equivalent of WWE but now it appears as though they are the equivalent of FLL/PLL. Is this right? Or can it substitute for both WWE and FLL?

 

If not, what would be the vintage-books equivalent of WWE?

 

Mixing and matching would create endless variations. I can see, for example, using Mary Hyde's Two Book Course in English Book 1 with Maxwell's First Book in English.

 

This sounds good; Mary Hyde's books are a gentle introduction and from what little I saw of Maxwell today, they have the proper definitions of the parts of speech. So doing a lesson (on, say, nouns) from Hyde's book and following it up with a lesson on nouns from the Maxwell book would work well (I think).

EDITED: Sorry, I was looking at another Maxwell book "New language lessons : an elementary grammar and composition" which has the definitions, etc. The Primary Lessons book is very similar to Mary Hyde's books and to Sheldon's PLL.

 

~ Nandini

Edited by nansk
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  • 1 month later...

Hijack :tongue_smilie:

 

For next year (I will have a fourth grader): I'm thinking about simplifying and going back to what worked last year. This is what I was going to do:

Hake 5

Classical Writing Ă¢â‚¬â€œ Aesop B

Sequential Spelling

Online WordlyWise.com

Daily Penmanship (Evan Moor)

 

Daily Language Review (Evan Moor)

 

I'm thinking about doing:

Online WordlyWise.com (it is free)

Sequential Spelling (it works well)

Progressive Composition Lessons Book 1 (beginning at year 4)

Sheldon's Advanced Language Lessons

Dictation Day by Day- Fourth Year (I believe this would cover the penmanship and language review)

 

Does that look like enough considering where I was planning on going originally? I should add that currently we are using Rod & Staff 3 and in the past we were using Sheldon's.

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  • 1 month later...
Awesome thread! Just came looking for this type of info and what a gold mine!

Bumping it for those that may have missed it earlier.

 

Too bad there isn't time to do them all! And to think that I've chickened out and ordered R&S and PLL :blushing: I bought a vintage copy of Maxwell's, well- worn, that is lovely (although former students certainly didn't appreciate it as I do, to judge from the various pencil markings and comments!) :D My current plan is to use R&S or CLE as our mainstay program, and use these lovely vintage texts for supplementary work. We use Ray's arithmetic in the same way for math. I know we could use Ray's and Maxwell's as our sole programs, but as a beginning hser with a toddler to boot, I find comfort in using a program with daily lessons plans and even a teacher's guide for foggy mornings when the coffee isn't working, the cat is on the fritz, the toddler is pulling off his cloth diapers, the doorbell rings, and ... You get the idea :lol: R&S has an old-fashioned appeal of its own; and of course PLL is the real deal, but conveniently reprinted for us today (with a new teacher's guide, too! ) :001_wub:

 

In another life, I'd create all our own curricula... Ah. I am truly a geek, aren't I? :D

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  • 3 months later...

I was thrilled to find this thread! Thanks to SaladPokeAnnie (sorry if I got your name wrong), I found out about Maxwell on a thread for Writing Strands. I have downloaded 2 of his books and started using them this week w/ a 5th grader and 3rd grader. So far they are working wonderfully! And my 5th grade dd who struggled big time w/ IEW and the KWO has written some beautiful things based on these lessons.

 

I was thankful someone here suggested downloading these 'finds' while you can in case they disappear. I already did mine, but as you mentioned others, I'm getting ready to save them. Also, thanks for the S & S, going to print that up too.

 

And so excited that this new addiction won't cost me anything but some paper and ink :D I, too, am opening my PDFs frequently just to swoon:lol:

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Here's a link to a bunch of Wm. Henry Maxwell ones:

 

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&q=wm+henry+maxwell&btnG=Search+Books

 

And here's a link to one specific book by him:

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=jZ8CAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=wm+henry+maxwell&hl=en&ei=UU-VTO6VJYP88AbDrZiRDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

The download is in the top right corner of the screen.

 

Hope this at least helps you get started :001_smile:

 

I got a bit sidetracked last night looking for other subjects and found some real gems for nature study, history, children's poetry and the like. Should I post here? Or start a new thread?

 

 

 

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I got a bit sidetracked last night looking for other subjects and found some real gems for nature study, history, children's poetry and the like. Should I post here? Or start a new thread?

 

 

Yes, please share. You could add on to this thread, but it might be nice also to have a new one to share favorites of more vintage texts.

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I am not finding anything that can be downloaded at any of the links in the previous pages. Can someone throw me a bone here?

It looks like you're outside the US.

 

Try http://archive.org/ ; some of them are there.

 

Here's what they have for William Maxwell:

 

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22William+Henry+Maxwell%22

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It looks like you're outside the US.

 

Try http://archive.org/ ; some of them are there.

 

Here's what they have for William Maxwell:

 

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22William+Henry+Maxwell%22

 

Thankyou!! I was not the original poster saying i had a problem, but after reading through everything and then NOT being able to look at any of the books you were all excited about is VERY frustrating! I have been able to view online now, just have to work out if i can actually download a copy to use later :tongue_smilie:

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Ok, here's a list of links to some other vintage books I found on google worth taking another look at (note--most of these titles are general, as I just had my list of links not titles).

 

Seven Little Sisters Who Live on the Round Ball That Floats in the Air

 

Ten Boys Who Lived on the Road from Long Ago

 

The Birds' Christmas Carol

Christian Children

Motherhood

 

Elementary Geography

 

By V.M. Hillyer

 

 

Elementary Poetry

 

Children's Picture book

 

I will try to start another thread on this and maybe we can share all of our unearthed treasures.

 

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  • 6 months later...

Sorry to be bringing up an old post, but I am totally loving this thread. I may have just completely switched my plan for grammar. I do have a question though. There are 3 volumes of Speaking and Writing by Maxwell, one for third, fourth, and fifth grade. I found the last two, but I can't for the life of me find an online copy of the first volume. Can anyone link me to it, if it is available?

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Wow! This was a fun thread!

 

I'm sorry to say that I've not found the first book of Maxwell's speaking and writing text, either. What a shame. I will say that I am more and more impressed with the Maxwell texts.

 

Something we've been doing for grammar, in addition to our work with the vintage texts is working with the Montessori grammar cards. I printed a set several years ago, and recently remembered having them. My set is laminated, and I've attached a bit of magnetic strip. We use them on the magnetic dry-erase board (which I found marked down to $1.49) My board is about 24" X 36" or so, so it is great for our work.

 

First, I write a sentence pattern on the magnetic dry-erase board. My little guy looks through the colored grammar cards and chooses words to match the pattern. We do several of these sentence exercises, spending time to talk about simple subject, simple predicate, or prepositional phrases, etc. This work is very fun, and is a change from the usual grammar work. I also draw out the diagramming chart, and we move the words to place them appropriately. So, in a fun way we are composing sentences, and also doing a bit of diagramming. Painless, and cheap too!

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Editing...

 

I found some on the Montessori for Everyone site for around $6 for the pdf. You might also make your own with some white cardstock and markers to match the colors of the parts of speech cards. You could use the colored markers to edge the cards, then write the words you choose for each part of speech. Sorry this is not making sense. I'm really tired. Maybe I can explain this in better detail tomorrow.

Edited by Poke Salad Annie
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Totally makes sense! We are also using The Sentence Family which npmy children LOVE and it uses certain colors for various parts of speech. So I really should make my own to correlate with that. And then I'll have to use sticky tac with my dry erase, as it's not magnetic:001_huh:

 

Thanks for the idea:001_smile:

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There are some free cards to print from this site: grammar cards.

 

On page 5 of this pdf, you can find the colors for the grammar cards. I don't use the grammar symbols, as I think they are unnecessary and confusing. You can print the first pdf I linked, then go over the edges of the cards with the colored marker to match the colors in the second pdf I linked. For durability you can laminate them. You can also get some sticky adhesive magnetic strips at Walmart for ~$1.25 or so, and cut them into small pieces to attach to the back of the word cards. If you don't have a magnetic board, you could try some cookie sheets. It could be possible to make a magnetic board with some flashing from the hardware store as well.

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Bumping this thread :D Really loving all the finds.

 

It seems the general consensus is that Maxwells Introductory Lessons shouldn't be used until 6th, but I think my my rising 4th grader, who finished GWG 4 this year, would find it doable. Am I missing something? The earlier texts, while lovely, remind me a lot of WWE, which we're already doing. They seem to not focus on naming parts of speech particularly, which is fine, but I think some kids probably already are comfortable around 4th grade/5th grade with naming and classifying parts of speech...do you think Intro Lessons would be too hard for him? Is there any reason NOT to begin Introductory Lessons? I could spread it out...Maxwell, in the introduction, says the book is for 10-12 year olds. Thoughts? It just seems to me that if a child has a strong grasp of the terminology, and is already doing a fair amount of dictation, narration etc, that this might be more suitable.

Edited by Halcyon
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The exercises on pp. 11 & 12 (Exercise 12) would be great for composition lessons, too---kind of in the Killgallon style, right? What I mean is copying the sentence pattern, but using your own words. Hope that makes sense.

 

We've been having great fun with our colored parts of speech cards and the magnetic board. I have been writing a sentence pattern with a dry-erase marker, then my little guy finds words to fill in and places them below my pattern. I have gradually made the sentence patterns more difficult, so we are having a good workout with them. I only wish I had more words ready to use, but hopefully this weekend I can get them made.

Edited by Poke Salad Annie
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Back when these books were written' date=' "Grammar Grades" were 5th to 8th. School was broken down into 4 year segments: primary (1st-4th), grammar (5th-8th) and high school (9-12th).

 

When it says Lower Grammar Grades it means 5th and 6th and Higher Grammar Grades is 7th and 8th.[/quote']

 

Thanks for the explanation. I've been wondering about this. That will be a great help when looking for more finds at Google books.

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Back when these books were written' date=' "Grammar Grades" were 5th to 8th. School was broken down into 4 year segments: primary (1st-4th), grammar (5th-8th) and high school (9-12th).

 

When it says Lower Grammar Grades it means 5th and 6th and Higher Grammar Grades is 7th and 8th.[/quote']

 

Thank you for this explanation! So I think then that Introductory Lessons wouldd be fine for my son, who is finishing GWG 4. Thank you :)

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How about this?

 

Language work in elementary schools By Macon Anderson Leiper

 

Note from the intro:

Within the past fifteen or twenty years, leaders in educational affairs have become convinced that training in the use of the mother tongue has not produced the desired results. In generations gone by, the idea that one learns enough of his own language by absorption and imitation seems to have prevailed. To be sure, the grammar of the English language was studied, but this work consisted largely in mastering certain principles, with little definite direction as to their application in everyday speech. This old system has received justly merited censure, and another, fashioned on saner ideas, has taken its place.

 

Any system of instruction is measured by its fruits, and, according to this standard, the language work of the past has not been eminently successful, for the boys and girls of the past have not developed sufficient ability to speak and write the mother tongue correctly and elegantly. The result has been a healthy reaction against old ideas and methods, and a new type of language work, which will undoubtedly produce better results, is now being universally- adopted.

 

Anyway it's an outline of Language Arts studies for grades 1-8.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I just found this thread while doing a search for PLL. We have been using PLL by searl this year and though we are loving it I felt it was lacking in grammar (abstract grammar) I like the idea of combining it with R & S or one of the others linked on here.

Well, my question is.. what is the difference between the two PLL's? I didn't know there were two authors for this book. I'm confused. Anyone willing to clear this up for me?

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Well, my question is.. what is the difference between the two PLL's? I didn't know there were two authors for this book. I'm confused. Anyone willing to clear this up for me?

 

I have not used Serl's PLL. I reviewed it and felt that it was too light for my purposes. I wanted an explicit grammar text. Sheldon's PLL is an explicit grammar text. Serl's PLL is more focused on picture study and narration. If memory serves me right, it doesn't really get into parts of speech, which is what I wanted to teach my dd in 2nd grade. Sheldon's PLL DOES cover parts of speech, as well as usage and mechanics.

 

The books are unrelated except that they bear the same name, which was common at the time they were written.

 

Tara

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hmmm... I'm very intrigued with Maxwell's Introductory Language Lessons.

 

Print options question: I'm wondering whether it would be more useful to have it printed (On Demand Books) or to print it myself (laser printer) and put it in a 3-ring binder. For anyone who has used On Demand Books, do they lay flat? Or would it be better to have it spiral bound locally? I'm not very knowledgable about printing options.... I guess printing it myself would be the least expensive.

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Thanks, Stripe! Yes, I think that sounds right - typical paperback. I may just print it at home and then spiral-bind at DH's office. Because I really need more language arts options :tongue_smilie::lol:.

 

Thanks to all for this thread and the great links - I missed it before because in the past I had only seen another of Maxwell's books and it wasn't what I was looking for. I didn't realize he had a whole series.

 

So, one possibity - for 5th grade - would be Maxwell's Introductory Lessons and maybe that Progressive Compositions, Book 2.

 

Does anyone plan to use vintage language arts books for your 5th grader? Which ones? :bigear:

Edited by wapiti
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I have not used Serl's PLL. I reviewed it and felt that it was too light for my purposes. I wanted an explicit grammar text. Sheldon's PLL is an explicit grammar text. Serl's PLL is more focused on picture study and narration. If memory serves me right, it doesn't really get into parts of speech, which is what I wanted to teach my dd in 2nd grade. Sheldon's PLL DOES cover parts of speech, as well as usage and mechanics.

 

The books are unrelated except that they bear the same name, which was common at the time they were written.

 

Tara

 

Thanks for the clarification. It sounds like I should have gone with Sheldon's instead of Serls :( I wonder if it would be too complicated to switch now. We are about half way through PLL by Serl. (spelling error earlier)

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I have not used Serl's PLL. I reviewed it and felt that it was too light for my purposes. I wanted an explicit grammar text. Sheldon's PLL is an explicit grammar text. Serl's PLL is more focused on picture study and narration. If memory serves me right, it doesn't really get into parts of speech, which is what I wanted to teach my dd in 2nd grade. Sheldon's PLL DOES cover parts of speech, as well as usage and mechanics.

 

The books are unrelated except that they bear the same name, which was common at the time they were written.

 

Tara

 

Thank you Tara, I needed someone to tell me the difference. I don't think Serl's PLL is free on google and I do prefer a focus on grammar.

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I tried to figure out why Serl's PLL is not on google, and my current theory is that Google hasn't gone to a library that has it. There are just not that many libraries with a copy. Serl's Intermediate Language Lessons, is, though. (Is that supposed to be Moses's mother on the cover?!)

 

I'm not sure if Serl's is more CM style or what. There are a sort with cute pictures and lots of narrations. Are these aimed at younger children, or are they simply different styles?

 

Mary Hyde's book (which was remade into English for the Thoughtful Child) is on Google books, too. It's similar, I think, to Serl's.

 

There are really quite a few promising old grammar books available freely.

Edited by stripe
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hmmm... I'm very intrigued with Maxwell's Introductory Language Lessons.

 

Print options question: I'm wondering whether it would be more useful to have it printed (On Demand Books) or to print it myself (laser printer) and put it in a 3-ring binder. For anyone who has used On Demand Books, do they lay flat? Or would it be better to have it spiral bound locally? I'm not very knowledgable about printing options.... I guess printing it myself would be the least expensive.

 

As I'm typing, Sheldon's PLL is printing out from my ink jet. Yes, not laser printer unfortunately, but it's looking good nonetheless. I clicked on the option to fit the text to the page so that the font is bigger and more comfortable. Also, I'm printing on both sides, but since my printer is not that advanced, I'm printing the even pages first and then inserting putting back those pages to print the odd pages on the back. Ink is really cheap on amazon so at the end it will have only cost me maybe $2-$3. I'll use a 3-hole puncher later and put it in our language binder.

 

Since this was easy, I'm going to be printing Maxwell's Introductory Lessons in English this afternoon.

Edited by crazyforlatin
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You ladies are killing me! I want to print all of these out just to have. I did print the Sheldon books.

 

We probably don't have time to do any of them since we are committed to Phonics Road, but I am soooooo in love with these vintage books.

 

My sis is an English teacher. I may just have to print some for her. I think she would be thrilled to look through them!

 

ETA: I haven't looked through all of these, but which would you consider the to be the most complete study of English? My sis is actually considering hsing her dd and I could see these being right up her alley.

Edited by mothergooseofthree
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We'll be using Maxwell's Introductory Language Lessons (this comes right after Primary and is meant for 5th through 7th I think) next year instead of GWG. We've loved GWG, but I want to try something more challenging for next year. We may move right back to GWG5 after a couple of months, but I am going to give it a try.

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We'll be using Maxwell's Introductory Language Lessons (this comes right after Primary and is meant for 5th through 7th I think) next year instead of GWG. We've loved GWG, but I want to try something more challenging for next year. We may move right back to GWG5 after a couple of months, but I am going to give it a try.

 

I'm starting this with dd10 (we were supposed to start today :glare: but hey it isn't bedtime yet, there's still a chance ;)). I may skip a lesson here or there, or an exercise here or there, but I think we'll do the vast majority of it. I think it will be great reinforcement of a number of things that she already knows (especially with regard to Latin) in the early lessons. Later stuff will be new to her.

 

I'm in the process of turning it into a worktext because dd likes a workbook approach. It might require too much handwriting for her otherwise.

Edited by wapiti
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I'm starting this with dd10 (we were supposed to start today :glare: but hey it isn't bedtime yet, there's still a chance ;)). I may skip a lesson here or there, or an exercise here or there, but I think we'll do the vast majority of it. I think it will be great reinforcement of a number of things that she already knows (especially with regard to Latin) in the early lessons. Later stuff will be new to her.

 

I'm in the process of turning it into a worktext because dd likes a workbook approach. It might require too much handwriting for her otherwise.

 

Interesting idea! I agree there will be a lot of writing....I hope DS can handle it (he'll be 9 when he starts using it). I too think it will be a great reinforcement/expansion on what he already knows, and will help cement concepts. And yes, it will work well with Latin. As with you, later stuff will be new.

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