For all those who use an SWR/WRTR/PR/AAS approach to spelling....

[Heather in VA]

Can you tell me which one you chose, why you chose it, do you like it and where you would start with my youngest. She's finishing up Veritas Press' Phonics Museum and has a very good handle on phonetic sounds. She spells quite well too. She still needs work on dge, gh, and occasionally when to use tion vs sion. The basic rules are good. It's just the more complex ones, although she can read them well.

 

So tell me what you love and where I should put her.

 

Thanks

Heather

[TKDmom]

:lurk5:

 

I'm not using any spelling program right now and I'd be interested in hearing others' experiences, too.

[Homemama2]

Well, you'll probably get alot of different opinions on this one. :001_smile:

 

I chose AAS because I thought that SWR and WRTR sounded complicated and AAS used the same approach but was open and go... (I have NOT used these other ones, however, so keep that in mind)

 

Pros's and con's of AAS:

Pro's-

It's open and go-very easy to teach w/ built in review

 

Based on the O-G method (teaching phonograms etc)

 

Teaches the rules/ the 'why' of spelling (I'm a 'natural' speller- I can tell if it is wrong but can't tell you why, so I love this aspect)

 

Includes dictation so your dc practices using the words in context-not just memorizing for a test and forgetting it

 

Con's-

The words are rather simple. (People disagree on this, but my son is not a great speller and usually knows alot of these already by the time he gets to them in his spelling book) I have just started supplementing w/ How to Teach Spelling to help with this

 

It's expensive (maybe not compared to other OG programs, but it is alot for a spelling prog. in my opinion)

 

 

Hope this helps some, and good luck! Spelling drove me nuts trying to find something to use. :001_smile:

[Blossom'sGirl]

I choose SWR because it made the WRTR easier for home-schoolers to implement. AAS wasn't around when I was looking for a spelling program 6 years ago.

[Lovedtodeath]

I first chose How To Teach Spelling. We needed to go slower and have simpler instructions and less writing, so I went with AAS.

 

Based on what you describe of your daughter, I would not go with AAS. It sounds like it would be too slow moving and basic for her. How To Teach Spelling would probably be a good fit, and it is also Orton-Gillingham based. You might also look at The Phonics Road.

[Heather in VA]

Thanks ladies. I'm not sure I understand how How to Teach Spelling works. Is How to Spell a set of workbooks to go with it? The instructions in the samples look a bit vague. Is it more clear in real life?

 

Heather

[christine in al]

I'm not findng it using Google, can someone provide a link? or an author?

[TKDmom]

I'm not findng it using Google, can someone provide a link? or an author?

 

I saw it at Rainbow Resources. Here.

[8filltheheart]

Can you tell me which one you chose, why you chose it, do you like it and where you would start with my youngest. She's finishing up Veritas Press' Phonics Museum and has a very good handle on phonetic sounds. She spells quite well too. She still needs work on dge, gh, and occasionally when to use tion vs sion. The basic rules are good. It's just the more complex ones, although she can read them well.

 

So tell me what you love and where I should put her.

 

Thanks

Heather

 

I have taught spelling using WRTR, Teaching Reading at Home (which is what Sanseri published yrs ago to accompany WRTR), How to Teach Spelling, Phonetic Zoo, Natural Speller, ACE spelling, Spelling Power, Apples and Pears, and AAS. Phew!!! Typing it all out makes me dizzy!!

 

WRTR, Sanseri's program, HTTS, AAS are all OG based spelling programs. I am about the only person on this forum with this opinion, but I strongly disagree that you can rule your way into spelling. (I'll get to that in a minute) Each of the mentioned programs incorporates the rules and offers varied approaches on how to teach them in such a way that long term retention is achieved. WRTR is markings, HTTS is spiraled dictation, and AAS is via colored tiles and writing on a dry erase board.

 

I mention the fact that you can't rule your way into spelling b/c there are no rules that cover when to use tion vs. sion unless the word is pronounced zhun b/c only si makes that sound. Otherwise the person simply needs to know. The rules are very reliable for deciphering. The reverse, spelling a word that is not memorized, is much less reliable. Why are sailor and actor speller with an or but entertainer and painter with er? You have to memorize.

 

As to which spelling program to use, it really depends on the child and how they learn. I have 2 children that are horrific spellers. Apples and Pears is the only program that has even remotely helped. I have one child who seems to spell with a photographic memory.....any spelling program worked with him. My "average" kids have done well with OG programs.

[TKDmom]

I have taught spelling using WRTR, Teaching Reading at Home (which is what Sanseri published yrs ago to accompany WRTR), How to Teach Spelling, Phonetic Zoo, Natural Speller, ACE spelling, Spelling Power, Apples and Pears, and AAS. Phew!!! Typing it all out makes me dizzy!!

 

WRTR, Sanseri's program, HTTS, AAS are all OG based spelling programs. I am about the only person on this forum with this opinion, but I strongly disagree that you can rule your way into spelling. (I'll get to that in a minute) Each of the mentioned programs incorporates the rules and offers varied approaches on how to teach them in such a way that long term retention is achieved. WRTR is markings, HTTS is spiraled dictation, and AAS is via colored tiles and writing on a dry erase board.

 

I mention the fact that you can't rule your way into spelling b/c there are no rules that cover when to use tion vs. sion unless the word is pronounced zhun b/c only si makes that sound. Otherwise the person simply needs to know. The rules are very reliable for deciphering. The reverse, spelling a word that is not memorized, is much less reliable. Why are sailor and actor speller with an or but entertainer and painter with er? You have to memorize.

 

As to which spelling program to use, it really depends on the child and how they learn. I have 2 children that are horrific spellers. Apples and Pears is the only program that has even remotely helped. I have one child who seems to spell with a photographic memory.....any spelling program worked with him. My "average" kids have done well with OG programs.

 

Oooh, thanks. I just started a new thread on spelling (so I wouldn't hijack). But this is the kind of answer I was looking for. Thanks. :001_smile:

[Jen the RD]

My dd learned to read using SSRW. She read at least 2 grade levels ahead, but by 3rd gr, I realized she couldn't spell; not even simple words. Sonlight offered a reading assessment test (sorry I don't remember the site name) that evaluated a child's ability to hear individual sounds in words and she completely flunked!

 

I began to research how to tackle this problem when I discovered the research of the Orton-Gillingham method. I looked at WRTR, SWR, Patterson's Reading Works, and The Phonics Road. Fortunately, my library had WRTR, so I checked it out and started reading. I was fascinated by the research that covered how the brain actually encodes words for spelling. Everything clicked with me on what I was seeing in my dd's inability to spell. I bought the book and read it 3 times: 1st time-read, 2nd time-took notes, 3rd time-studied scripts.

 

The next year, 4th gr, I went back and taught her all 70 of the English phonograms. I followed the script taught in WRTR and used their Ayer's spelling list taking her from almost the beginning. Now as a 6th grader, she is in Spelling List W (It goes from A-Z.) On most of her monthly Morrison McCall tests she scores at 7th or 8th grade level. She has been scoring about 2 grades higher on her ITBS also. Better yet, I see many improvements in her ability to spell while writing. She'll even catch her mistakes more now and recognize the spelling rule(s) that apply. In addition to WRTR, I've found that the more reading, writing, and dictation she does, the better the spelling becomes.

 

I also taught my ds to read, write, and spell using WRTR. His reading and spelling are so much better than my dd's at the same age. I can't say that it is all because of WRTR since they are two different kids, but I do believe that this method made a huge difference in my ds's abiliby to see, hear and sound out phonograms for reading and spelling. Two of my friends were so impressed with my son's abilities that they asked me to teach them how to use it. So we had some mini-training sessions and now they also rave about the progress that their sons have made. Many people complain that this program is too hard to implement, but honestly, I disagree. It is not an open and go program. You do have to learn to use the method, but everthing is scripted in the 5th edition. Once you find your rhythm and routine, it is simple and straight forward. Oh yes, and the book only costs $22!

 

Where would you place your dc?

 

I suggest you get a copy of the 5th edition of WRTR. Look at the Ayers list and see where you think you're child might begin. Start dictating some of those words. If she misses more than 3 or 4 words from a group of 10-12, then back up. I kept having to back up with my dd and that's why I finally decided to go back to the beginning. She needed the review combined with seeing & hearing the phonograms and learning the spelling rules.

 

Sorry this has gotten so long....

 

God bless,

Jennifer

[Heather in VA]

 

WRTR, Sanseri's program, HTTS, AAS are all OG based spelling programs. I am about the only person on this forum with this opinion, but I strongly disagree that you can rule your way into spelling.

 

I mention the fact that you can't rule your way into spelling b/c there are no rules that cover when to use tion vs. sion unless the word is pronounced zhun b/c only si makes that sound. Otherwise the person simply needs to know. The rules are very reliable for deciphering. The reverse, spelling a word that is not memorized, is much less reliable. Why are sailor and actor speller with an or but entertainer and painter with er? You have to memorize.

 

 

 

 

See this is what I've always thought. My older two have used a variety of spelling products too. With my oldest, who is not a natural speller, Phonetic Zoo worked the best. With my middle, who is a natural speller, pretty much everything ended up seeming like a waste of time so we just do dictation - which has been quite effective. Neither of those children were homeschooling early in their education so this is new to me at this age. But I've always thought you couldn't rule your way into spelling either, but I'm not a very good speller myself so I figured everyone seems to think SWR-type stuff works so well, maybe that's why I'm a bad speller.

 

Have you ever just done dictation with a student who knows their sounds? I haven't used a program yet that made me feel like I was doing a great thing.

 

Thanks

Heather

[Homeschooling6]

I am currently using SWR with my two oldest dc. Started a few months ago. My 11ds can't spell and is at grade level with reading. I chose SWR with him because it doesn't have the word "Phonics" on it and it's exactly what I was looking for to re-enforce reading because he hasn't finished a phonics program, so I'm sneaking that in while he learns to spell.

 

I am using PR with my two middle dc and I love it! We are on week 21. It is very open and go. My dc spell better than my 11yr. old and their reading is improving.

 

I have WRTR but haven't finished reading it. I wanted to know more about the Spalding method.

 

I also tried AAS but it was a bit too slow for me and the children. They would yawn:sleep: through the whole lesson and didn't like the tiles. I was disappointed because I bought four levels:confused:

[Heather in VA]

I am currently using SWR with my two oldest dc. Started a few months ago. My 11ds can't spell and is at grade level with reading. I chose SWR with him because it doesn't have the word "Phonics" on it and it's exactly what I was looking for to re-enforce reading because he hasn't finished a phonics program, so I'm sneaking that in while he learns to spell.

 

I am using PR with my two middle dc and I love it! We are on week 21. It is very open and go. My dc spell better than my 11yr. old and their reading is improving.

 

I have WRTR but haven't finished reading it. I wanted to know more about the Spalding method.

 

I also tried AAS but it was a bit too slow for me and the children. They would yawn:sleep: through the whole lesson and didn't like the tiles. I was disappointed because I bought four levels:confused:

 

What do you see is the difference between SWR and PR? Are you wishing you had used it with the 11 year old or is it a function of different things working for different children? What else does PR teach besides spelling. I see grammar as well but what about thinks like alphabetizing (we've done some but not tons), homonyms, synonyms etc?

 

Thanks

Heather

[Homeschooling6]

What do you see is the difference between SWR and PR? Are you wishing you had used it with the 11 year old or is it a function of different things working for different children? What else does PR teach besides spelling. I see grammar as well but what about thinks like alphabetizing (we've done some but not tons), homonyms, synonyms etc?

 

Thanks

Heather

 

We are getting ready for AWANA, so I'll come back but did want to say that I do wish I would have used PR with my first two dc. You can read a little bit about what I wrote about PR HERE.

 

PR does cover phonics, spelling, writing, grammar & penmanship.

 

I have only been using SWR for a few months so keep that in mind. I'll come back to write a few differences that I see.

[robsiew]

I chose AAS... I disagree with the thought that spelling isn't taught. Just because there are some exceptions to the rules doesn't mean you can't teach a skill. All I have to do is take one look at my childrens' writing before spelling instruction to tell you they need to be taught this skill. Now, is it an easy skill to learn? For some kids yes, for some no. Just like anything.

 

I really like AAS because it focuses on the "why" of spelling. I know my kids are better spellers because of it. Are the lessons hard? No.. I'm really glad they aren't because my kids would hate spelling if they were. The beautiful thing is we can vary our speed... the curriculum makes it easy to do that.

 

My kids do not learn words in isolation. They learn a general rule (and any exceptions to it) and apply it to a list of words. These words are reviewed if they give them trouble. When my kids hit a word in their writing that they don't know how to spell I have a whole slew of things I can ask them to lead them to figuring out the correct spelling themselves. To me, that is beautiful! My eldest has even started asking himself some of those questions and finding his own mistakes. I couldn't ask for more.

 

With no spelling skills, my kids would have nothing to go on to figure out how to spell. Everything would be memorization. For those with excellent memories (such as my 6 y/o) it won't be a problem. For others.... they would never be good spellers.

 

Okay, stepping down....

[Just Robyn]

Oh yes, and the book only costs $22!

 

 

I see on their website a "Home-educator's kit" for almost $190. Is this unnecessary then? Did you create your own materials to use based on what the book says?

[Renee in NC]

I initially chose SWR and switched to AAS because I thought SWR was too hard for my 11yo. As we finish up REWARDS, I decided to go back to SWR. I don't think I was patient enough to see that he learned the rules - I know he learned most of them because he can give me the reason why a word is spelled a certain way most of the time. His spelling has jumped 2.5 grade levels since fall (due to his keyboarding class, the phonograms, and REWARDS.)

 

I like SWR over WRTR (which I did get from the library later) because it was the first one I saw AND it is laid out much better in SWR (for me anyway.) I think *either* would be a great program.

 

I had planned to use AAS with my 8yo, but the problem was the simplicity of the words and how they are grouped. I like that the A-I lists in SWR cover 50% of the words we use. For this child that will be most important. I will still use some of the techniques from AAS (like the missing vowel drills from Step 5!) I also kept the letter tiles to help him *see* the phonograms easier. Since his blending sounds is very difficult, I have been teaching him the Dolch List by following the SWR rules/phonograms.

 

My 7yo is much like my 8yo, but my 5yo is a natural speller and she will probably go through SWR quickly. The fact is that I can use SWR with all my dc with no problem (and I imagine the same is true with WRTR) without having to buy multiple programs.

[Lovedtodeath]

Orton-Gillingham is a different method from Spalding (WRTR, SWR, Phonics Road).

 

Great thread and thoughts!

[Heather in VA]

Orton-Gillingham is a different method from Spalding (WRTR, SWR, Phonics Road).

 

Great thread and thoughts!

 

Can you expand on this? I always thought they were variations on a theme. How are they different?

 

Thanks

Heather

[Lovedtodeath]

Well to put it ineloquently, Orton-Gillingham is easier. It introduces less all at once and tends to have more incremental steps. There is a post comparing AAS to SWR on this board somewhere I believe.

[Heather in VA]

We are getting ready for AWANA, so I'll come back but did want to say that I do wish I would have used PR with my first two dc. You can read a little bit about what I wrote about PR HERE.

PR does cover phonics, spelling, writing, grammar & penmanship.

I have only been using SWR for a few months so keep that in mind. I'll come back to write a few differences that I see.

 

Thanks! I almost forgot it was Wednesday night. We are so snowed in we don't even think about going anywhere :-)

 

Heather

[Heather in VA]

Well to put it ineloquently, Orton-Gillingham is easier. It introduces less all at once and tends to have more incremental steps. There is a post comparing AAS to SWR on this board somewhere I believe.

 

Thanks. I'll do some searching on the boards.

 

Heather

[Dinsfamily]

I'm using SWR and love it. I'd planned on using Spalding since I saw it used in a Kindergarten classroom when my oldest was 6 mos old. I even made my own phonogram cards from the 5th ed. and slowly introduced them to my ds. However, when it came time to start the program with him, I couldn't figure out how to implement it in our home. I read the 5th ed. at least 3 times and the 4th ed. twice. I just didn't get it. That started my research mission to find out either how to use Spalding or find something similar. I thought about buying the TM from Spalding, but most of the reviews I read said that it was directed to a classroom teacher and not easy for a hs mom. I never saw more of it than the samples online. About that time, I stumbled on SWR and my dh convinced me to buy it (I'd been waffling for awhile and was at a standstill). He reasoned that I could always resell it if I needed to. I haven't looked back since. It game me the explanation that I needed to teach my ds. My ds is thriving with it and I enjoy teaching it.

 

I usually recommend that people start with the WRTR. If you can figure it out...great, use it! If not, check out SWR.

 

I've also looked at AAS and PR since we started SWR and neither one would be for me. PR would be WAY too expensive for us plus it adds components that I don't really want. AAS wouldn't fit my needs as a phonics or spelling program, but I definitely see why others like it.

 

HTH and you find what you're looking for,

[Flaura]

I agree with 8FillTheHeart. In my limited experience you can't rule your way into correct spelling. You can apply the rules correctly to spell a word and still get it wrong. O-G methods are great for learning to decode words especially for struggling readers. This is not to say that I think spelling is a waste of time. Learning the phonograms and doing some word work everyday are helpful for kids especially if they struggle. For my dyslexic son the only thing that helped was improving reading so he could see more words, dictation and copywork, and a targeted spelling program based on morphemes.

If I had a child that wasn't struggling I don't know what I would do.

Probably not helpful...

[monalisa]

I am using AAS with my DD7, although in my heart I WANT to use WRTR. However, like others, I haven't quite figured it out for us. What I don't like about AAS is that in Level 1 it is very slow. My dd7 doesn't like the tiles (she prefers to write), but she is learning to spell. I have Level 2, and after that I may switch to WRTR or SWR.

 

One note -- I would NOT recommend the Spalding Manuals. I was all geared up to switch to WRTR in the fall, and ordered the 1st grade manual. I sent it back because for $75 or whatever the price was, it was totally NOT helpful (and by the way, they charge a 10% restocking fee!). It is truly written for a classroom. There is nothing in it that is helpful for a homeschooler that isn't in the 5th edition IMHO.

 

However, since then I came across a resource called How To Start A Spelling Notebook by Mari McAlister (I think I ordered it from a Catholic homeschooling website), that lays it all out for you on how to follow the 5th edition. Its just a short paperback booklet. If I do use WRTR, I'll probably follow her guidelines on how to use the 5th edition.

[Jen the RD]

I see on their website a "Home-educator's kit" for almost $190. Is this unnecessary then? Did you create your own materials to use based on what the book says?

 

Initially, I bought the kit with the TM's for K & 4th. After 3 mos of using the TM's, I stopped. They made LA very labor intensive for the me. What's included in the kit isn't really necessary, IMHO. Here's what I suggest is the bare minimum for what you need: book, phonogram cards, and spelling assessment manual (BTW, this manual isn't in the kit. You must purchase it separately).

 

My dd used the spelling notebook, but it is simply a bound composition book that you can buy at Wal-mart. My ds had difficulty with the K composition book, so I printed off paper from my Start-Write software and we made a notebook for him.

 

I have used the McCall Crabbs readers for reading comprehension. Both my kids have really enjoyed them. I do think they are valuable tools for standardized test prep, but they are not required.

 

Keep in mind that the kit is meant to follow the complete LA program as described in WRTR. Initially, I thought I wanted to do their LA as laid out in the TM, but it was just too much work for me with 2 kids. I can't imagine using them for more than 2 levels. I chose to just use the reading comp & spelling/writing aspects.

 

HTH. I'll be happy to answer any other questions.

 

Jennifer

[Colleen in NS]

Many people complain that this program is too hard to implement, but honestly, I disagree. It is not an open and go program. You do have to learn to use the method.... Once you find your rhythm and routine, it is simple and straight forward. Oh yes, and the book only costs $22!

 

This has been my experience, too.

 

I see on their website a "Home-educator's kit" for almost $190. Is this unnecessary then? Did you create your own materials to use based on what the book says?

 

:svengo:

 

I use the book, a composition notebook from the dollar store, a pencil, and phonogram cards. We have a cassette tape of Mrs. Spalding saying the sounds, but I don't think it's necessary - the book or cards tell you how to pronounce them. And the cards *can* be homemade. It all really depends on how much support you want. For some skills, I tend to want to figure out on my own how to teach them. For others, I get support in the form of detailed teacher manuals.

[grace'smom]

This has been my experience, too.

 

 

 

:svengo:

 

I use the book, a composition notebook from the dollar store, a pencil, and phonogram cards. We have a cassette tape of Mrs. Spalding saying the sounds, but I don't think it's necessary - the book or cards tell you how to pronounce them. And the cards *can* be homemade. It all really depends on how much support you want. For some skills, I tend to want to figure out on my own how to teach them. For others, I get support in the form of detailed teacher manuals.

 

Youtube also has some video of people showing you how to say the sounds according to the Spalding method...

[Lovedtodeath]

I do not pronounce for spelling. I started out thinking that I should, but we do not say Lance or Man with a short a. We do not say ang with a short a, and ing is always pronounced around here with a long e sound, so I just made an, ang and ing into their very own phonograms.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I love the Phonics Road. Here is my review. It's long, but it really explains my love for this program and why I would never use another program again.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Orton-Gillingham is a different method from Spalding (WRTR, SWR, Phonics Road).

 

Great thread and thoughts!

The PR website says it's Orton-Gillingham.

 

I do not pronounce for spelling. I started out thinking that I should, but we do not say Lance or Man with a short a. We do not say ang with a short a, and ing is always pronounced around here with a long e sound, so I just made an, ang and ing into their very own phonograms.

:lol::lol: we do laugh at ourselves when we hear our own twang...it makes us laugh out loud to say babi...we pretend we're leprechauns!

[Lovedtodeath]

AAS is not based on Spalding. It is based on Orton-Gillingham.

 

I feel the need to point this out repeatedly because the Spalding method is sometimes more complicated for some children. I know my DD started spelling every word with a short u sound using an a when I was starting to use WRTR. I did not use the method in full, but I do know that OG is different than Spalding, and from what I have read of the differences, works better for my DD.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

The PR website says it's Orton-Gillingham.

Thanks for the correction! I have been drooling over PR ever since I first heard of it and now I am even more so.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Thanks for the correction! I have been drooling over PR ever since I first heard of it and now I am even more so.

worth the drool! I Really love it. After the initial phonics instruction (year 1), I am seriously finished with LA for my 1st and 2nd grader in no time. We're able to finish our entire day by lunch! It's easy and everyone is happy! It's almost magical!

[Miss Sherry]

AAS is not based on Spalding. It is based on Orton-Gillingham.

 

I feel the need to point this out repeatedly because the Spalding method is sometimes more complicated for some children. I know my DD started spelling every word with a short u sound using an a when I was starting to use WRTR. I did not use the method in full, but I do know that OG is different than Spalding, and from what I have read of the differences, works better for my DD.

I am glad you took the time to point that out. Thanks for the information. I need to go edit my post now so I don't confuse any one else regarding AAS.

[Quiver0f10]

I choose SWR because it made the WRTR easier for home-schoolers to implement. AAS wasn't around when I was looking for a spelling program 6 years ago.

 

Same here. I do like SWR and when AAS came out I tried it briefly but went back to SWR. I think the main reason I went back to SWR was because I knew it and was used to it.

[8filltheheart]

I don't know how to multiquote, so I will just address the last few posts by Miss Sherry and Lovedtodeath.

 

I agree with Sherry that WRTR is not for everyone, but I think I have posted enough about the OG methodology and it not working for spelling with all kids. I started off with straight WRTR and then switched to Teaching Reading at Home which was Sanseri's original program.

 

Lovedtodeath, I am not sure why you believe that WRTR is not an OG program. Spalding studied under Orton and the phonograms are the same 70 as Gillingham. She did change the presentation b/c OG was initially developed for kids with LDs and she modified the program for her regular students. However, it is definitely OG based. (all programs other than OG are OG based and have their own "twist.")

 

Romalda Spalding and The Writing Road to Reading

 

Using Orton's methods to teach normal primary students was designed by one of his last teacher-collaborators, Romalda Spalding, who authored The Writing Road to Reading in 1957. She believed, and we believe, that her method represented Dr. Orton's final conclusions that this method should be used for primary children, both to prevent and correct learning disorders, and most importantly to establish high literacy in virtually all primary children.

I have used most of the homeschool accessible OG based spelling programs and they all cover the same phonograms, the same rules, etc (though after reading Heather's posts I gather WRTR doesn't cover syllabication, so I am guessing it must have been in Teaching Reading at Home b/c I know I have taught them to all of my kids.......ETA: Colleen confirmed syllabication is in WRTR, so I guess I did learn the rules there) The only major difference is the word lists and how to present the info.

Edited February 13, 2010 by 8FillTheHeart

[Jen the RD]

Lovedtodeath, I am not sure why you believe that WRTR is not an OG program. Spalding studied under Orton and the phonograms are the same 70 as Gillingham. She did change the presentation b/c OG was initially developed for kids with LDs and she modified the program for her regular students. However, it is definitely OG based. (all programs other than OG are OG based and have their own "twist.")

 

Romalda Spalding and The Writing Road to Reading

 

Using Orton's methods to teach normal primary students was designed by one of his last teacher-collaborators, Romalda Spalding, who authored The Writing Road to Reading in 1957. She believed, and we believe, that her method represented Dr. Orton's final conclusions that this method should be used for primary children, both to prevent and correct learning disorders, and most importantly to establish high literacy in virtually all primary children.

 

 

Not trying to split hairs, but this quote is accurate and if anyone would like further clarification, I'll happily provide more quotes from the 5th ed of WRTR.

 

Jennifer

[Colleen in NS]

But I wouldn't use just the WRTR book as your only resource. Unless you don't mind developing a major head ache.

 

Not everyone will develop a major headache while using just the WRTR book. ;) (said for the benefit of anyone who *does* lean towards using it)

 

Different parents/children will jive with different methods/programs. Even Ellie, whose favourite is WRTR and who answers posted questions about WRTR because she knows the method very well, has been known to recommend other spelling programs, if she sees from a post that another might be of better benefit.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Colleen in NS

[PeterPan]

I just wanted to clarify one small point. The programs are not attempting to spell using the rules. They do the reverse, using the rules to explain the spelling. Any time spelling is unclear or there are options, the correct spelling is clarified, hints given, etc. Dictation is literally that, the teacher dictating the correct spelling and the students discussing WHY it is spelled that way. There is no guessing of the spelling, no spelling from rules.

 

The better question is whether understanding the why's behind the rules and then having some practice of those words (chosen by frequency, not patterns) makes the words STICK. To the poster who cited her two dc and the differences, I say you're probably seeing differences in the dc, not just the methods. I taught my dd from the BEGINNING with WRTR and SWR, and, sigh, it's not magic. For some kids there is no magic. Ok, maybe there is, but I haven't found it yet. I haven't tried Apples and Pears. As the others said, after a certain point their reading kicks in and moves their scores forward, irrespective of what you are doing for spelling, which is why we stopped.

 

I think there's some irony that we assume the logic-level analysis so successful in remediating some kids will result in wonderful results when applied to grammar stage kids who just need to memorize. Some kids take in those randomly chosen, totally disinteresting (to my dd at least) words in those adult-oriented frequency lists and memorize them, simply because they're told to. Some kids understand the application of the rules but have the words go in one eyeball and out the other. If you teach words kids don't care about, don't want to use, etc. and are working with kids who don't gravitate to memorizing bits of trivia like that, don't be surprised when it doesn't stick with those kids. Some kids are great with that and some aren't.

 

Rant over. My conclusion, after 6 years of homeschooling (admittedly not as much as some, but more than others) is that most of the mistakes I've made in homeschooling were because I didn't really get how my dd's brain ticks and how to match materials to her. Imagine, after all this time, after all the things I've bought in so many subjects, that I finally realize the connecting thread, the one thing that guarantees success, more than any other, was inclusion of humor. My dd needs humor. If the grammar has humor, it succeeds. If the writing program has humor, it succeeds. French with humor, doing great. Why did it take me so long to figure out? That's not rocket science. I was still, when it was all said and done, more worried about what the theoretical "best" program was than I was about selecting a slightly less popular program that would fit her personality better. But the lightbulb has come on. I've picked up the clue phone. :)

[8filltheheart]

I just wanted to clarify one small point. The programs are not attempting to spell using the rules. They do the reverse, using the rules to explain the spelling. Any time spelling is unclear or there are options, the correct spelling is clarified, hints given, etc. Dictation is literally that, the teacher dictating the correct spelling and the students discussing WHY it is spelled that way. There is no guessing of the spelling, no spelling from rules.

 

The better question is whether understanding the why's behind the rules and then having some practice of those words (chosen by frequency, not patterns) makes the words STICK. To the poster who cited her two dc and the differences, I say you're probably seeing differences in the dc, not just the methods. I taught my dd from the BEGINNING with WRTR and SWR, and, sigh, it's not magic. For some kids there is no magic. Ok, maybe there is, but I haven't found it yet. I haven't tried Apples and Pears. As the others said, after a certain point their reading kicks in and moves their scores forward, irrespective of what you are doing for spelling, which is why we stopped.

 

I think there's some irony that we assume the logic-level analysis so successful in remediating some kids will result in wonderful results when applied to grammar stage kids who just need to memorize. Some kids take in those randomly chosen, totally disinteresting (to my dd at least) words in those adult-oriented frequency lists and memorize them, simply because they're told to. Some kids understand the application of the rules but have the words go in one eyeball and out the other. If you teach words kids don't care about, don't want to use, etc. and are working with kids who don't gravitate to memorizing bits of trivia like that, don't be surprised when it doesn't stick with those kids. Some kids are great with that and some aren't.

 

 

 

I think we are talking past each other. What you are describing is what occurs during a spelling lesson. What I am describing is a child writing and trying to spell words that they don't know how to spell and attempting to rule their way into how to spell the word. It boils down to the fact that ultimately they have to memorize the words.

 

The question is do the methods help them store them in their long term memory. For my most spelling disabled kids, the answer is a definitive no. They attempted to rely on the rules vs. memorizing the correct spelling, a process that does not work.

 

A very pitiful but true story.......when my oldest was in 8th grade he took the Stanford Achievement Test. He scored in the very high 90s in all the math sections, in the low to mid 90s in all the language arts sections except for spelling. He literally scored in the 3rd percentile in spelling.

 

That child used WRTR for spelling through 5th grade. I tried HTTS, Phonetic Zoo, and in then Spelling Power in attempts to get him to memorize the lists. Now that he is in college, he has learned to compensate for his miserable spelling by using spell check and looking up all words that have homophones so that he knows the correct one has been replaced.

 

My 8th grader is very much like him. Apples and Pears and focusing more on morphographs over phonographs has made a huge difference. It fits his learning style better b/c it is a logical approach to word construction and builds on his logical "math/science" model construction thinking. The rules don't help them learn b/c they want consistent, reliable, walk into any situation and they still work type rules......just like math.

 

So, all that to say that I agree with your point, but after the spelling lesson is over and done with, the rules are what they are going to rely on when they don't know how to spell a word.

[Colleen in NS]

I don't know how to multiquote

 

Here's some help - I was so relieved when I figured this out. See the button that is directly to the right of the "quote" button, at the lower right of the post? Click on that - the background of it should turn red. Then keep scrolling down through the thread, clicking that "multi-quote" button on each post you want to include in your one reply. Then click the post reply button at the bottom left of the thread. Your message should come up and then you can edit out parts of posts you don't want, and reply after each quoted message.

[Lovedtodeath]

I know of no other Spalding teacher who teaches you about the clues and histories of words that do not seem to follow our English spelling rules and provide the whys behind English spelling. Then rather than writing all this information in a book or books to navigate, I have modeled the entire program on DVDs so any mom can teach like the best Spalding teachers.

 

 

Anyone care to elaborate on this quote from The Phonics Road?

[PeterPan]

Lovedtodeath-You can get a sample dvd from PR and see it for yourself.

 

8Fill--Yes, I totally agree with you. I wasn't responding to what you were saying so much as clarifying what some other people were saying that wasn't technically correct. And I totally agree with you. Of course after I tried multiple programs, I finally had a kind soul tell me to just do dictation, lots and lots of dictation. I guess I've become moderated in my opinion of SWR/WRTR/PR over the years. I think it's going to result in astounding spellers with certain types of kids/learners/brains, and it's going to be a flop or worse than flop for others. What I haven't figured out is why it's a flop or what would be better. I mean I have theories (more context, more application, more interesting, more visual), but I really don't know.

[Lovedtodeath]

Elizabeth, I think that some people probably focus on the rules too much and don't really drill the words and dictation as much as they should. Some kids need something different. I have heard that AAS does have morphographs in later levels.

 

My question is about what PR implied regarding other programs.;)

[PeterPan]

Carmen, until you have a dc who doesn't remember the words, no matter HOW many times you drill, you won't understand. Let's just say I was an SWR groupie and did SWR till we were blue in the face, absolutely blue in the face. We went through those words SO many times and practiced SO much. And my experience is NOT unique. At the time there were several of us on the boards, the old boards, all doing the same stuff. One lady, Magic Wand who only comes around infrequently now, who had two girls taught exactly the same way, very diligently, with SWR to the hilt. One girl did great and one girl just wasn't taking off, no matter what. It's the KID. And when you're in that situation, you start to realize you can do more damage than good forcing it like that.

 

I had PR3 btw too. On the dvd's she does go into some of the history and how it impacts current spelling. That's why I suggested you might see that if you watch her promo. It's not so much a slam of other curricula as her promoting the extra bits she includes.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Carmen, until you have a dc who doesn't remember the words, no matter HOW many times you drill, you won't understand.

What I don't understand is that people seem to be saying that the existence of such children means that SWR isn't an effective spelling method. Now I understand that 8filltheheart says that Apples and Pears is a better alternative. That makes sense. But it seems like you are saying that OG based spelling isn't good because some kids still can't spell?

[Lovedtodeath]

I have used most of the homeschool accessible OG based spelling programs and they all cover the same phonograms, the same rules, etc (though after reading Merry's posts I gather WRTR doesn't cover syllabication, so I am guessing it must have been in Teaching Reading at Home b/c I know I have taught them to all of my kids) The only major difference is the word lists and how to present the info.

I can see your point. Mine is that how to present the info and changing the order of the word lists changes a program enough that it is no longer OG, better for dyslexic students, or some students that may need things more incrementally. Just to be nitpicky,:tongue_smilie: SWR teaches 70 basic phonograms, and All About Spelling teaches 72 basic phonograms.

 

 

From the AAS website:

 

+ Why doesn’t the program teach all 72 phonograms in the first few months of instruction?

 

+ How is your program different from Spell to Write and Read?

Edited February 12, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[8filltheheart]

What I object to is people promoting programs like AAS as a panacea for kids who can't spell. It is often those very kids that can not improve with OG methods. My non-spelling disabled kids actually do very well with OG methods. It may help some kids, but it definitely does not help all. And it certainly is not based on how it is taught. It simply is not a magic spelling cure-all.

 

The morphograph approach is the one that has actually helped 2 of my kids (one severely spelling impaired and one who just isn't a great speller). I don't believe it will help all kids either. It is just a different method.

 

From my understanding, AAS covers prefixes and suffixes which is not the same thing as morphographs.

 

I am ordering Spelling Mastery next yr for my poor speller since he will have completed all Apples and Pears levels.

 

The entire spelling fiasco with my children has been the most frustrating teaching experience I have had. It is extremely difficult to see very bright kids not be able to spell no matter what you have done. It is even more difficult b/c I can simply visualize words w/o any problems. FWIW......I am convinced that some people are just poor spellers and I no longer see it as a reflection on one's educational level but on lack of intelligence in getting someone else to proofread professional materials when one is aware of the deficit.;)