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Computer programming instruction


klmama
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My 11yo ds wants to learn to program computers. His dad will be able to teach him, but he wants to find something developmentally appropriate and fun. Anything with robots would be a hit, but they aren't essential. Is Lego Mindstorms the best way to go or would MicroWorlds EX be a better fit (it uses LOGO)? Other ideas? Thanks for any input!

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I downloaded qbasic for him and gave him this tutorial:

http://www.petesqbsite.com/sections/tutorials/tuts/felix_qb_for_kids.htm

 

I picked this one out of the many because it is aimed at children; it starts out with programming games and fun things, not data entry for a company's payroll. He quickly (rather too quickly) abandonned the tutorial and struck out on his own, writing various simple games like black jack. He thought them up himself. He's 13. He gets unbelievably frustrated with me because I used to program and ought to know the answers but it has been 20 years and the commands are slightly different in qbasic and I can't instantly diagnose his problem from a verbal description while I'm dealing with traffic on the way to gym. Sigh. Other than that, it is going great. He's having all the fun of figuring out how to program by himself. Eventually, he'll take some classes at the CC, but for now, this is perfect. I did have to scan a few adult tutorials in order to answer some of his input questions, but he mostly can figure it out himself. He had some experience with lego robotix beforehand, but never did much with the programming part.

 

I agree with Cleo that if you can find an old Commodore 64, it is a fun way to learn. The machine is totally transparent, so it is great to learn on, and its basic has graphics and sound commands. I learned on one, way back. You'll need the user's guide, too, though.

 

-Nan

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I'll have to discuss your suggestions with dh this weekend. He can look at the qbasic to see what he thinks - I am quite clueless about such things. We already have four computers in the house, so I can't see him wanting to add another, but I do see those old Commodores occasionally on Freecycle. Thanks for the great ideas! Anyone else have any?

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What is qbasic?? A pogramming language... I say that like I know what it is. My oldest LOVES computers and is great with them and would probably be ready to program, but He is SO far above what I am able to do on the computer. How do you find a class and monitor him???

 

Christine

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One can also go with Visual Basic

http://www.programmingtutorials.com/vb6.aspx

 

The book Visual Basic 6 for Dummies is pretty much self-teaching, especially at the beginning (about its first third, I would say).

 

This approach also means you have to invest in Visual Basic 6, from Microsoft.

Not a bad investment though. One can do a lot of home programming, quickly and painlessly with it.

 

QBasic, I used to use, eons ago. I don't know its current state.

A quote on a site:

About VISUAL BASIC 6

Visual Basic 6 is not your grandfather's BASIC! If your knowledge of programming is limited to the QBASIC you toyed with in high school, you'll think you've landed on a different planet.

 

http://www.profsr.com/vb/vbintro.htm

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(hard to do extensive research with a 13yo now-ing at my elbow), qbasic is the freebie version of visual basic. Visual basic is an update of the old basic programming language. Basic was developped as a computer programming language that was suitable for home use, something that non-professionals could easily pick up and use. As such, it is clunkier and slower than a professional programming language, but easier to learn and use. Basic is the programming language that most people start with.bg Qbasic is a good, free way to try programming before spending money on anything else like classes or software. If you read the beginning of the tutorial I listed above, it gives instructions for downloading qbasic to your computer. Print out the tutorial, download the program and run it, and then give your child the tutorial to follow, pointing out where the actual tutorial begins and the parent instructions end. Just make sure the child understands that computers are very, very literal and what he types in has to match the directions exactly, down to every single comma and space. If he gets an error message, he probably mistyped something. If that doesn't work, then you can consider classes. I believe Potter School has a basic class. If it does work, then you can download other tutorials or buy a handbook. If your child is doing a lot of programming, then you should consider buying the visual basic software, which will come with lots of cool extras to help make doing games and graphics and sound easier.

-Nan

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qbasic is the freebie version of visual basic. Visual basic is an update of the old basic programming language.

-Nan

 

 

Hmm not quite. Visual Basic supports MFC and COM. It's way more than an update. It's almost unrecognisable as BASIC. It only shares the name. I highly doubt that qbasic does. Visual Basic is now considered a professional tool. Many many applications out there are programmed with VB nowadays. I did use it for a short while, even if my main programming was in C and C++. (I left when C++ was becoming the standard. It's now C#, and possibly even something else. C# should become obsolete pretty soon, its numbers of years are up ;-) However, I am now completely obsolete myself!)

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The LEGO education store has Mindstorms with curriculum, $360 for homeschool package if I remember correctly. I was looking at that for next year. Our son enjoys the visual object orientation of "games" we have found on the web that are much like the initial MINDstorms, e.g. "move the robot to pick up the bone and deliver it to the puppy" and you program each step. For more advanced things you can integrate other languages/protocols with Mindstorms like Jabber (some really fun stuff!) and probably others. The university of utah virtual manipulatives library has beginning programming tutorials which seem to me just the step-by-step logical breakdown you have to imagine to write a program:

 

http://nlvm.usu.edu/en/nav/vlibrary.html

 

the following link is for grades 9 thru 12, if you scroll to the bottom of the page the Turtle Geometry game is supposed to be like programming. (ok, I just did it and I think it's weak for an 11 yr old, it might amuse my 6 yr old...):

 

http://nlvm.usu.edu/en/nav/category_g_4_t_3.html

 

We've started our son on little bits of PERL when he has asked for "lessons" but an 11 yr old could tackle something like the following tutorial (I have not screened for content).

PERL tutorial assuming the user knows nothing of programming:

http://www.physics.rutgers.edu/~kotliar/perltut.html

 

- Jill

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Hypercard is nice for kids to start with. Very easy and visual.

 

Next I wold use java. Memory is managed automatically, so it's easier to start with than C.

 

Java should keep you busy. Lots you can do with it. Let me know if you want some more detailed suggestions. (I'm doing my Masters in Computer Science right now, so I'm well informed lol).

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Guest BryceI

You should check out Scratch. It's a 2-D visual programming environment from MIT. It's relatively simple to use, designed to be fun for kids to play with, but powerful enough to create real applications that run. And it's free.

 

Here's the homepage:

 

http://scratch.mit.edu/

 

Alice is also popular. I haven't played with it yet. It's 3-D, and probably a bit more rich, and complex. It's aimed at an older audience that Scratch, I think. It's also free.

 

http://www.alice.org/

 

Not that it really matters, but I have a PhD in Computer Science, and have 4 kids 10 and under, and have thought a bit about the problem of teaching computer programming to children.

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Ny 7yr old is learning programming using LEGO MINDSTORMS programming language NXT. If your son likes technic LEGOs and programming, this might be a big hit. It's a visual programming language but you get the logic of loops, if-then statements, etc. My son used it for his science fair project. I purchased two LEGO temperature sensors for the NXT. He came up with the question of whether hot and cold water will reach room temperature at the same rate. This involved programming the temp sensors to collect data every 2min, save to a file, upload the data, and then send it to Excel for graphing. This didn't require any building but you could build a LEGO platform to hold the sensors etc. There is a lot of science and programming to be done with this system.

 

hth

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Just wanted to say how much fun we're having with Alice. There is a free tutorial (or two) online for the original, but you might just start with the Storytelling Alice (for middle schoolers). I have made some myself and they are really neat even without messing with the advanced stuff. My son has already gone into some of the advanced controls though and is having a ball!

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