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Latin is kicking my rear, and I haven't even started! Help!


Annabel Lee
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I intend to learn Latin at least a semester ahead of my boys before starting them (or just my older ds) on it. So, I sat down w/ my copy of Latin For Children Primer A that I picked up at a yard sale last summer.

 

If I don't even know what ablative, accusative, dative, infinitive, perfect tense, passive participle, etc. mean... then do I need a serious grammar refresher before I start Latin? And, should I wait until my son has learned or is learning those things in grammar before immersing him in unknown grammar via Latin?

 

TIA

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I intend to learn Latin at least a semester ahead of my boys before starting them (or just my older ds) on it. So, I sat down w/ my copy of Latin For Children Primer A that I picked up at a yard sale last summer.

 

If I don't even know what ablative, accusative, dative, infinitive, perfect tense, passive participle, etc. mean... then do I need a serious grammar refresher before I start Latin? And, should I wait until my son has learned or is learning those things in grammar before immersing him in unknown grammar via Latin?

 

TIA

 

I'm not familiar with LfC, but in general I find that I get overwhelmed if I "look ahead" in my oldest one's books. But, if I just start at Lesson One and work through it a lesson at a time, I'm fine.

 

Good luck!

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I would learn right along with them. If I had tried learning ahead of my daughters I would have been very frustrated with Latin. I haven't used Latin for Children but put on the DVD and learn together. They will discuss what the terms mean and so forth on the DVD's. If you don't have the DVD then I suggest you get it.

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If I don't even know what ablative, accusative, dative, infinitive, perfect tense, passive participle, etc. mean... then do I need a serious grammar refresher before I start Latin?

 

We just don't have these same noun declensions in English, so it won't do you any good. You just have to jump into Latin and learn them! :D

 

Now, as far as the verb tenses, of course we do have those, but with the Latin curriculum that we're using, and I suspect this is also true of *any* of them, they explain it as they introduce it.

 

Initially I wanted to learn ahead of my dd as well, but, I dunno, maybe I'm just lazy, that didn't work out so well. We're learning it together and so far, so good. I think you'll be fine!

Edited by GretaLynne
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If I don't even know what ablative, accusative, dative, infinitive, perfect tense, passive participle, etc. mean... then do I need a serious grammar refresher before I start Latin?

 

I do, but I'm a parts to whole kind of girl. My dh, on the other hand, is a whole to parts learner. I will do much better at Latin if I learn all that in English first. Dh thinks I'm weird, because he jumps into a Latin program, starts learning, then dives into investigate any of those weird grammatical terms as he comes across them.

 

Like building a house:

Me: *Looks at building plan and makes a list of all the different kinds of brick*

"I will need lots of different types of bricks to build this house. I'd better get one of each kind and have a good look so I'll know what they are when I come to that part of the plan."

*Puts down brick one.

*Puts down brick two.

...

*Puts down brick twenty eight...

 

Dh:

*Looks at step one of the building plan*

"Groovy!"

*Puts down brick one.

*Puts down brick two.

"Huh? What is going on with brick three? It's a different kind of brick. Oh, ok. Let me check Wikipedia.

"Groovy!"

*Puts down brick three."

"Hey, brick four is another kind of brick! Better check Wikipedia again..."

 

I guess your answer depends on your preferred method of house building.

 

:)

Rosie

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LFC has you learning endings before they explain what all of the cases mean. In future chapters you will learn that nominative case is for nouns used as subjects (and predicate nominatives--they explain it when you need it). You'll learn that the accusative case is for nouns being used as a direct object. Also of object of the preposition for some prepositions. Anyway, each case is used for nouns playing specific roles in the sentence. You will learn usage slowly, but you will be memorizing all of the endings from the beginning. It is a little confusing at first, but eventually makes sense. I remember asking a similar question about the four principle parts when we started. Why do we learn these? It's pretty standard for all Latin programs, not just LFC, and it will make future learning easier if you've learned all of those parts as part of your chanting.

 

I'm just working along with my dd--now in LFC B. It's working out fine to not be ahead of her.

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I haven't seen LFC, but it should define the functions of each case--for instance, the genitive case is possessive. Once you know those functions, you'll just have to practice and memorize them, but it will begin to make sense. Of course I say this as a novice.

 

This might be helpful.

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I found this book http://www.amazon.com/English-Grammar-Students-Latin-Learning/dp/0934034346 to be very helpful when I got stuck on grammar. The explanations are clear and, for me at least, acted as both an elementary guide to Latin grammar and a refresher for English grammar.

 

...before teaching my children was the little book English Grammar for Latin Students. Not only does it simplify Latin grammar, it really helps you understand English grammar.

 

I think this might help. A little pricey for its 170 pages, but in this case, well worth it!

 

HTH!

 

Wow, thank you both for mentioning this. It looks great!

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I intend to learn Latin at least a semester ahead of my boys before starting them (or just my older ds) on it. So, I sat down w/ my copy of Latin For Children Primer A that I picked up at a yard sale last summer.

 

If I don't even know what ablative, accusative, dative, infinitive, perfect tense, passive participle, etc. mean... then do I need a serious grammar refresher before I start Latin? And, should I wait until my son has learned or is learning those things in grammar before immersing him in unknown grammar via Latin?

 

TIA

 

I've been learning Latin along with my oldest this year using LfC A. When I read the chapter that mentions the cases I thought I had missed something but it turned out that we just needed to understand at that stage that there were different cases. A few chapters (weeks) later we got a definition for what each one generally means and that continues to be expanded upon. I have to say that I really use and enjoy/need the DVD's that come with LfC - it helps me to have another teacher initially explain the concept. He covers the same things on the first page or two of each chapter but it's easier to me to see it than to read it. YMMV! :D

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:iagree:

 

No worries. The Latin noun cases (nominative, genative, dative, etc.) will be explained in a few chapters. Make sure you read over the grammar sections carefully to get a full understanding of what needs to be learned. I, too, HIGHLY recommend the CD's and DVD's that come with the program. While you're at it--consider the activity guide. It is filled with fun ways to practice Latin. My ds(9) enjoys the activities.

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Rosie, I guess I'm a parts-to-whole learner when it comes to this, because I want to know what they are talking about when I read it. I do have the DVDs, but, the SuperBowl is on. :glare::tongue_smilie:

 

I remember chanting all kinds of lists of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person things and different tenses of verbs, but that ended at 5th grade when I left that school. That was, um, a while ago. ;) I think I'll get the book you recommended, Janie.

 

Verity, I see that there is some explanation of terms in this book (LfCA) and that it is supposed to be taken for exactly what it is - nothing less, nothing more. It looks like it doesn't *have* to have any supplemental explanation, but I think my trouble with it comes from my need for a grammar refresher. LfCA seems to assume I already know what these things are in English - by "things" I'm looking at ch. 19 for ex.; present, imperfect, and future tense. I don't want to have to learn a new grammar concept through the lens of a foriegn language. I think that means I'm in the "keep studying English grammar, too" camp. I certainly don't want my dc to try to wade through grammar in a foriegn language w/o knowing it in English first. I DO, however, want Latin for grammar reinforcement (among other things - it's taken me awhile but LCC pushed me off the fence).

 

I don't even know if LfC is what I want to use w/ my dc, I just happen to have it on the shelves so I figure why not. I know LCC recommends Prima Latina, LC I & II, and then Henle... maybe I should check them out. Then again, maybe I should keep the "blinders" on and try what we have on hand. After that, if we hit a snag, it would make more sense to look around. Is there any huge difference between LCC's rec's and starting w/ LfC?

 

Thank you, all of you, for chiming in to help me figure this out.

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We have used LFC for over a year and I have found that it easy to just learn along with my kids. Maybe because I hear them doing the chants over and over. We watch the DVD together and then sit down and read the lesson. I actually find that I am learning by reteaching what we just heard on the DVD.

 

Lesley

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I guess I'm a parts-to-whole learner when it comes to this, because I want to know what they are talking about when I read it.

 

If you want a nice, big picture summary of Latin grammar, go here. Amazingly informative, and it explains everything like you are an intelligent person who just so happens to be a complete novice to Latin. It generally gives the English grammar equivalent as it explains the Latin. If I need further help, I just google it or pull out (one of) my English grammar book(s). Anyway, it has really helped me see how the grammar all fits together, and I need that in order to really learn something.

 

I think my trouble with it comes from my need for a grammar refresher. LfCA seems to assume I already know what these things are in English - by "things" I'm looking at ch. 19 for ex.; present, imperfect, and future tense.

I could be wrong, but I have a really, really hard time believing that LfC - in Primer A, no less - genuinely expects *3rd graders* to have had previous exposure to verb tenses in general and those specific terms in particular. I mean, I was looking at the samples, and in lesson 4 they are helpfully reminding students of the definition of a noun, kwim? At the beginning of Primer B, when they are reviewing verbs, the sum total of what they have to say about those tenses is that "the present tense is for thing happening now, the imperfect tense is for some things that happened in the past, and the future tense for things that haven't happened yet." That's pretty basic - if that is what they are teaching in Primer A, I can't imagine what knowledge they are assuming. They *do* do a lot of, "Here are the proper terms, memorize them now, and we will explain them later," and maybe you are assuming that, since they didn't explain them now, they actually expect that you already know them. Honestly, my impression has always been that LfC assumes nothing more than the parts of speech and maybe not even that.

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Haven't used LfC, but I'll offer you one tip about language learning. Sometimes you have to be in the grammar stage and just accept all the parts, memorize them because you're told to (with very little concern for understanding), and let the understanding come later. It WILL come later, but they do throw a lot at you at the beginning that they expect you just to memorize, because they said so. If your brain doesn't want to memorize that way, write it down and let your notes be the external memory drive. With your pseudo memory, you can keep moving forward until you get to the part where the understanding starts to come.

 

And no, you don't have to wait for it to come up in english. Even when english does some of these things (which it doesn't all), it does it in such a natural way that it won't be striking to them. In other words, while you can SAY english takes the dative (which it does, hehe), your kids will look at you funny. But once you learn the concept in latin, you'll easily apply it to the reverse english.

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I just spent some time at the Classical Academic Press site learning more about LfC. Then I went over to Memoria Press' site to check out Prima Latina & Latina Christiana. It says Prima Latina is perfect for a student who still needs more time to learn some English grammar. Fwiw, ds 8 is in FLL 2 but will move into FLL 3 in the spring. He'd be almost half done w/ FLL 3 when he begins Latin. That is, unless someone here says something to convince me to just jump on in. lol It's been known to happen.

 

O-E, I get what you're saying. Forty-two, I wish very much that I had known I was going to homeschool & prepared myself the way you are for your littles. Kudos to you.

 

I'm off to google and research more Latin stuff. Thanks again.

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I don't know if it would be of interest to you at all, but I am planning on registering dd (who will turn 8 next month) into the Stellae program at Lone Pine Classical. I am slowly (ever so slowly) learning some Latin, but I really wanted to find a Latin tutor to guide dd. That option was way out of our price range, but the Stellae class provides an hour a week of Latin from a well-recommended instructor at a very reasonable price. When I contacted the instructor, she said space was limited, so if you are interested you can contact her through the "contact us" link at the site. I'm even considering auditing the Latin 100 class prior to dd reaching that level to prepare myself for that point of her journey. (The class would begin in Sept.)

 

Just thought I'd mention another option as you are researching them all. :001_smile:

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Thanks, Dawn! I sent them a message in hopes that they offer online or DVD courses. Alaska to Colorado and back is just more time in the car than I'm willing to spend on a daily basis. ;)

 

Yes, she does offer online classes. The commute from Mississippi wouldn't be too fun either. :D

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I learned Latin alongside my son using LFC A, B and C (and now Latin Prep). It doesn't assume any grammar knowledge at all, but rather teaches grammar as it goes. You mentioned that you "have it on the shelf," so I would just add that they revised the DVD for Primer A a few years ago, and added more explicit instruction by the teacher. It is Dr. Perrin by himself at a whiteboard. They still have the fun stuff with the girls, but they found that people wanted more explanations earlier in the program. So you might want to see how new your DVD is.

 

Have a great time!

 

Julie

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...before teaching my children was the little book English Grammar for Latin Students. Not only does it simplify Latin grammar, it really helps you understand English grammar.

 

I think this might help. A little pricey for its 170 pages, but in this case, well worth it!

 

HTH!

 

I ws going to recommend the same book. It is an invaluable resource!

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