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If you had a child who did NOT like history...


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what would you do for high school?

 

Sorry. I am stuck in the house on a snowy day, and I probably have too much time to think. We are a couple of years away from high school, and I plan for ds to do a year a Geography next year for grade 8. Once we get to high school, I am torn between doing a four-year cycle - say using MFW - or just a more traditional textbook approach of World History, US History, Gov't. and Econ.

 

I always fees so "blasphemous" when I am on these boards talking about ds not liking history, but this is just the way he is. We have tried several different approaches, and have wound up with a textbook (BJU Grade 8 US history) for this year. He still "hates" it, but tolerates it better than other things we have tried.

 

Part of me feels like he will be "cheated" if we don't do a four-year cycle, Great Books approach a la the WTM way, but another part of me feels like this would be an AWFUL lot of time to devote to something ds really has no interest in. He very much has a math bent and likes things which he perceives to be useful. He is very good at subjects where rules are learned, then applied (Grammar, Latin, Math).

 

I am torn between doing things the WTM way and perhaps just letting him do somethihg easier potentially clepping some things (like US history) that he would like to get out of the way. Yes, I know that not all schools would accept a CLEP in US History, but, honestly, if he thought he might not ever have to see history again, he might work harder at it!

 

On the other hand, I want him to have a reasonable foundation in history and not cheat him. We would never pursue AP for history b/c he dislikes it so. Part of me feels like we should focus on what he likes, what he is good at, and what he will likely pursue later in life.

 

Sorry for all this rambling. I always feel a bit out of place on these boards since my ds doesn't even LIKE history!

 

What would you do for high school for a child who does not like history?

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My dd is very math- and science- oriented. She loved, loved, loved Mystery of History volumes 1 and 2 in middle school -- brief readings, varied exercises (vocab, cross-match, etc). MOH has assignments suitable for highschool, and it would give you a four-year cycle, with a very manageable workload.

 

We are currently using Notgrass Exploring World History and finding it a good fit for my "just the facts, ma'am" student.

 

I understand where you're coming from; I've been seriously contemplating using MFW 10th grade next year, but dd just pointed out to me this morning that she doesn't care for projects, extra reading . . . she doesn't even like keeping a timeline. I'm not sure it's worth investing the money or energy into a program like MFW if she's going to balk at every. little. thing. I think we'll just work through Notgrass "as is" and let her put the extra time and energy into science and math.

 

I have a dear friend who pointed out that if *everyone* was smitten with history and literature, we'd all sit around discussing it while we died of cancer and the world crumbled around us, because there would be no doctors or engineers, etc. It really is okay not to *love* history and great books and to focus elsewhere!

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I think I would only do a year of World History, a year of American History and then fo half semesters of geography, government and economics. That would fulfill high school and college requirements. THe minimum my kids had to do was enough to get into college. Only one of my three will have done a WTM 4 year history schedule. THis is because the middle one got sick in tenth grade and we had to compromise and the youngest prefers textbooks and workbooks.

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We did TWTM/TWEM for this very reason! It let us pick the literature books we wanted to read, write about literature, not history. Concentrate on primary sources (much more interesting), and let my sons just read (not do the questions) in a fairly interesting history book, spread out over 4 years. My sons didn't/won't get as much history or as complete history as many people, but I'm not worried about that. They learned plenty, for our family, much more than my husband and I ever did. For great books, I picked works that were adventure stories or humorous, mostly. We didn't do 20th century novels. Instead, my son did a year of scifi (still using TWEM questions to discuss them). Frankly, my children would rather read The Odyssey and King Arthur and Beowulf than have to read typical "English" books like Of Mice and Men or Lord of the Flies or The Lottery. Instead, they could choose to read things like Huck Finn and Dracula LOL. The great books were mostly written by men for men and I found that they appealed to my teenagers much more than to me, especially the ancients and medieval stuff. And doing Great Books, they felt like they were avoiding history, except as it applied to the works they were reading.

-Nan

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We did TWTM/TWEM for this very reason! It let us pick the literature books we wanted to read, write about literature, not history. Concentrate on primary sources (much more interesting), and let my sons just read (not do the questions) in a fairly interesting history book, spread out over 4 years. My sons didn't/won't get as much history or as complete history as many people, but I'm not worried about that. They learned plenty, for our family, much more than my husband and I ever did. For great books, I picked works that were adventure stories or humorous, mostly. We didn't do 20th century novels. Instead, my son did a year of scifi (still using TWEM questions to discuss them). Frankly, my children would rather read The Odyssey and King Arthur and Beowulf than have to read typical "English" books like Of Mice and Men or Lord of the Flies or The Lottery. Instead, they could choose to read things like Huck Finn and Dracula LOL. The great books were mostly written by men for men and I found that they appealed to my teenagers much more than to me, especially the ancients and medieval stuff. And doing Great Books, they felt like they were avoiding history, except as it applied to the works they were reading.

-Nan

 

Which history book did you use for the four years?

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Have you ever tried taking a more big picture or conceptual approach to history? One thing that can bog kids down in history is that it sometimes seems like a never-ending barrage of facts and dates and historical figures. What I have done and intend to continue during high school is to pay attention to the over arching themes and not so much to all the details. We will be using Ways of the World as a spine.

 

As for literature to go with it, for intensive study I'm picking things that I'm fairly sure my son will enjoy, though it's not necessarily going to be well balanced.

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He too is very interested in math and science, especially math. We have used literature, as Nan describes, and that has helped, but I've also made heavy use of Teaching Company courses. This year, he is a junior and we are doing Medieval, and there is a pretty good Teaching Company series by Philip Dileader: The Early Middle Ages, The High Middle Ages, and The Late Middle Ages. We got them on sale as audio downloads and they wer only about $35 each, I think. He doesn't love it, but he is learning and we enjoy reading and talking about the literature. AS luck would have it, he's a good reader and loves to read, so Beowulf and Dante's Inferno are doable.

 

Best wishes-I'm right there with ya!

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My oldest son hates history, and I couldn't do WTM with him because he hated every subject being filtered through history. I think if you try to do a history-based curriculum you will drive yourselves crazy! My son is a read the book, take the test, kind of guy, so he read a world history text, an American history text, and a civics text. He did well on the tests.

 

Now, then he gets to college and stays up all one night reading about the history of Taiwan! He told me that we should have just done the Civil War and Taiwan for history. I imagined myself explaining to a college admissions officer, "Yes, he does have a few gaps, but ask him anything about Taiwan!"

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Since I have no experience whatsoever but did happen to suggest the thing that worked for you this year :) , could I suggest looking at Omnibus for next year? History and GB are two separate things, even though they overlap. In other words, he can enjoy the GB, enjoy discussing them and pondering their issues, even if he's not enamored with history. And really, the handy thing about GB (or any books like that) is that they give him a peg, a reason to find it interesting. GB are really a bit different from historical fiction in that sense, and failure for him to connect with hf in the past doesn't mean he'll flop with GB. I've been reading some of the stuff in O1 to prepare, and really it's quite tolerable. Some of the stuff needs to be read aloud, especially that greek stuff, and you have to make sure he has enough background by reading kid versions of stuff. But other than that, I'd have no reservations suggesting a GB study for him. I hate history, so I'm just basing it off my own reaction. Does he have particular things that interest him philosophically or religiously right now? He might like to do just some of the BEST of the O1 books this summer (pick them, say 4) and then go on to O2 in the fall. I remember having a lot of religious ponderings and questions at that age, and some of those books in O1 and O2 might really connect with him and scratch an itch. The mathematical mind can be very analytical.

 

As far as a spine with Omnibus, I found a copy of the one Karenciavo recommends. The author escapes me, and the book is downstairs. It comes with study guides. If you get the text, obviously get the study guides so that your expectations and approach are very concrete.

 

BTW, I'm not saying you'd have to, but don't be afraid to edit Omnibus. It's better to do a little bit and enjoy it than try to do everything or fit some mold and get burnt out. You could pare it down, drop a couple books, sub something, and still have a great year.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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I answered this yesterday, but realized I first should have asked you - what does he like? You may be able to structure history around that. For instance, a friend's daughter loves fashion. She studied fashion and clothing from different eras. She managed to pick up quite a bit of history with that approach. If you child is more of a science guy or music person for example, you could probably design an approach to history that would be more meaningful for him.

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This is exactly what I was going to suggest because I did just this with my oldest ds. It is amazing how much history can be picked up by studying the things that interest them especially if you discuss and have them think about what it was about a particular era that caused things to be the way they were, whether fashion, or theater or science. You can use something like Kingfisher as a basic history reference, then flesh out historical reading with internet searches on historical figures and events. Otherwise have all the readings relate to the field of interest -- biographies, newspaper articles from the period, plays.

 

I was heartened to read, in the rhetoric section of the most recent WTM edition, SWB suggestions to use an interest as a hook for history. It felt good to have that validation after years of doing things in this way!

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