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My kids are all grammar stage, but I'm curious who is using MUS in High School and how it's going. I hear a lot about how it's good for younger grades and not for the higher math.

 

I guess I'm curious as to why people think it's not good for upper level math. What do other programs seem to provide that MUS doesn't? Do you find it leaving out skills, not enough practice..?

 

If you are using MUS in high school are you finding it's working well? Do any of you have very strong math students using the program? My oldest is very math minded and one thing I like is that harder concepts are presented in easier ways so he can do more at an earlier age, yet he's building a really strong foundation of the basics.

 

My last question is... have any of you completed the series and needed more math? (for instance, do you have a math lover that wants more?) What are you using? Do you supplement at all in HS?

 

I think the driving force behind my question is that we love MUS now. I really want to stick with a math program in order to not have holes in their instruction. I'm hoping there are others out there that love MUS as much at the upper levels as they did at the lower levels. I want to make sure all my kids have a strong math background, but especially my oldest who is very interested in chemistry and the sciences.

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We are doing this right now, so far so good. Maybe someone with more experience may be able to add...

 

Ds who has always been very intuitive in math started in S'pore Math through 5th grade, then went into trad. schools from private-charter is now back homeschooled doing Dolciani Geometry/MUS single year Geometry DVDs/ and older edition MUS Basic Algebra & Geometry.

 

I have read many great things about some wonderful Math curr. on the WTM forum and some re: MUS being not challenging enough in higher levels. But I have also seen on-line many success stories of families using MUS all the way.

Please pm me if you like and we can talk details.

For us it was a matter of cost, efficiency, God's will and combining curr. w/ brother following suit in 2 years that has to use MUS (only curr. that works since ds2 is largely a kinesthetic learner).

Hope you get some good follow-up to your question.

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Let me say first that she is good at math. She tested average on the SAT but tested into Calculus when she got to college. She was the top student in her class so yes, MUS can work for kids. She told me the advantage she had over the other students is that she knew how to work out problems without using a calculator. Since she didn't learn with a calculator she learned the formulas etc that she used well. She said some of her classmates were lost because all they could do was use a calculator and you just can't do that with every problem. In fact she went on to tutor some of her friends to help them pass. I'm not saying you'll have that kind of success with every student but you can use MUS and do well with it. If you are using MUS don't be afraid to keep using it.

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My kids are all grammar stage, but I'm curious who is using MUS in High School and how it's going. I hear a lot about how it's good for younger grades and not for the higher math.

We used MUS from K through Algebra. I would have loved to stay with it, but I found it lacking in the high school levels. Here is a post I wrote about just one difference I saw.

 

I guess I'm curious as to why people think it's not good for upper level math. What do other programs seem to provide that MUS doesn't? Do you find it leaving out skills, not enough practice..?

MUS is weak in word problems. Even in the younger grades, we supplemented with Singapore's Challenging Word Problems. My son could do 25 MUS perimeter problems in a row perfectly. He could do 25 MUS area problems in a row perfectly. He did not fully understand the difference between the two, though. Singapore gave him partial information for perimeter (for example) and asked him to figure out the area. He had to learn the difference between the two to determine the answer. He had to work through several steps to get there as well.

 

If you are using MUS in high school are you finding it's working well? Do any of you have very strong math students using the program?

We used MUS Algebra and LoF Algebra last year. MUS was easy-peasy. LoF was challenging. I have a degree in math and ds is math-oriented. Ds prefered MUS because it was so easy. He didn't like to have to think for LoF.

 

I think that MUS can work fine, especially if you start the Algebra in 7th or 8th grade, since some of what is typically taught in Algebra is not taught until Algebra II, and some of what is generally taught in Algebra II is not taught until Trig, etc. I think it would be best to supplement somehow with more challenging word problems as well. They just incorporated the Honors into the main program. Maybe that will provide more challenge.

 

My 2c.

Edited by Sue in St Pete
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We have made the decision to do math year-round....and stave off the math-brain-beginning-of-the-year fog ;)...

 

Younger ds is using Math Mammoth, and older ds (9th next year) is using LOF. Our plan is to do MUS in the summer that coincides with what they will be doing for math during the "school year." DS will be doing LOF Geometry in 9th so we will do MUS Geometry this summer. That way they get the foundation laid so that they can tackle all the application and word problems in their "regular" math.

 

MUS is foundational and focused, and I know there is much talk about whether it is "enough." I, personally, believe it is. What more could you want for your students than to understand math? Give them the foundation and see where they need more work. If they're not getting word problems, have them do something that helps them understand word problems. Instill a love of learning in them, give them confidence.....What's that saying that I even read on the Memoria Press site? "Very few students suffer from a program that is too easy, but many become discouraged by a program that is too hard."

 

....just .02 cents from a soon-to-be high school mom!:D

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We have used MUS as supplement and as a spine in high school.

 

We used MUS Delta through Pre-algebra (8th grade), supplementing with Singapore. In 9th we used Jacobs Algebra. I didn't feel he had as firm a grasp on the concepts as needed, so we spent the first half of this year (10th) using MUS Algebra 1 to firm up those concepts. This second semester we are using MUS Geometry, and will probably finish early, and will then be able to use Jacobs Geometry as supplement. At this point, the plan for this student is to use MUS Algebra 2 as the "spine" program when we do Algebra 2, and use Lial's Intermediate Algebra as supplement.

 

The visual way in which MUS teaches abstract algebra concepts is wonderful, and perfect for our visual-spatial learner. We just also need more supplement -- cover more topics than are in MUS -- and to see the math in more than one way, so we use MUS and a supplement. BEST of luck, whatever you go with! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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MUS is foundational and focused, and I know there is much talk about whether it is "enough." I, personally, believe it is. What more could you want for your students than to understand math? Give them the foundation and see where they need more work. If they're not getting word problems, have them do something that helps them understand word problems. Instill a love of learning in them, give them confidence.....What's that saying that I even read on the Memoria Press site? "Very few students suffer from a program that is too easy, but many become discouraged by a program that is too hard."

 

....just .02 cents from a soon-to-be high school mom!:D

:iagree: I am using MUS all the way for both of my kids---one in high school already using Algebra 1/Geometry combo and ds in 8th using MUS Algebra 1. I plan on using MUS all the way through Calc with my son. Yes---there are harder, more challenging programs out there. But I want my kids to 'understand' math and why they are using it. MUS is providing not only this for them, but making it a pleasurable experience. If you really like MUS and it works for your kids---why change? I have never read one testimonial about MUS that said it damaged a student or left them in the dust.

 

And I must say that the perimeter/area problems my daughter has come across in MUS Geometry have definitely been more than one step and definitely involved plenty of thinking. Nothing rote about the problems. I am thoroughly impressed with MUS. ;)

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My oldest son used only Math-U-See through all of his homeschooling. It turned out to be excellent preparation for all of his math CLEP tests and college classes where he has made high grades. By the way, Math-U-See is also great preparation for the math needed in physics and chemistry. I will definitely continue with Math-U-See for my other children.

 

Blessings,

jfurlough

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Thank you so much for all your responses. It's good to see down the road sometimes! It's also good to see some who have used this program successfully through high school. I've been really pleased with our results so far so I'm hoping that will continue! If nothing else, I will be learning alongside my kids! I got lost at fractions!

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What a timely visit to this board. I just hopped on to ask some questions about starting Foerster's Alg 2 mid-year as my son is finding MUS Alg 2 ridiculously easy. He's done with his lessons in less than 1/2 hr and gets mostly 100's on his tests, and yet bombed the math portion of the PSAT. He did great on the other sections so it's not test anxiety. My son is not a super-strong math student and is not math or engineering inclined at all, but he's been complaining about how easy his math is and even asked if it gets any harder or should he double up for a challenge. I would have loved for it to be more challenging, but I'm afraid it doesn't have the depth or breadth we're looking for. The honors books don't do it either, I'm afraid.

 

My older son also did MUS Precalc and he placed into precalc at the community college. He did 'ace' it, but given that he did precalculus as a senior, we would have expected placement into calculus.

 

We used MUS at the lower levels, but had our reservations about using it at the high school level because of negative reviews. But we also read glowing reviews such as someone just posted. We decided based on these positive reviews rather than our gut feeling that it was lacking and simply comparing the scope of MUS as compared to other math curriculum. It has not worked for us as it has, apparently, for other people.

 

Yolanda

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Yolanda,

 

All of my kids have also breezed through MUS alg and geo. They repeat alg with Foerster alg 1 and another geo program. Foerster definitely challenges them and forces them to stop and think. I have 2 that are just about to finish the alg portion of Foersters alg 2/trig book. Easy is definitely not a word they would use to describe it!

 

FWIW......I disagree with the quote in the other posts. There is understanding math manipulations and then there is applying math concepts. The first does not necessarily lead to the other without teaching and practice. I'm very glad my engineering major ds did not use MUS all the way through.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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Our older DS is in the midst of Foerster Algebra 2 right now; it is a substantial textbook, teaching multiple methods of problem solving for each topic, and with SO many problems for each lesson, that I only assign a portion of the problems after the first 2 lessons of each chapter. Foerster also comes at the math from a completely different point of view than MUS. (Younger DS just finished MUS Algebra 1 and is in the midst of MUS Geometry, so I am also familiar with upper levels of MUS; we will supplement MUS Geometry with Jacobs Geometry, and will use something ?? to supplement MUS Algebra 2 when we get there.)

 

For those 2 reasons (rigorous, different viewpoint), I would suggest that it will still take a full year to complete Foerster Algebra 2. If you were to switch from MUS mid-year, then your son would either need to work very diligently all through the summer to complete Foerster, or he would use the first semester of next school year to complete Foerster.

 

Or, you could have him continue with MUS this year and consider it overview for easing him into doing Foerster Alg. 2 all next year. Repeating algebra is not necessarily a bad thing, as the student is getting 2 years and 2 approaches to Algebra 2 -- and remember, algebra (rather than geometry) concepts are what are stressed on the SAT, ACT, etc. tests. Our younger DS did Jacobs Algebra 1 all last year, and I was not convinced he "got it" at all, so he did all of MUS Algebra 1 for the first semester of this year to review/cement the concepts.

 

Another option might be to continue MUS through this year, but supplement it. (Foerster would NOT be easy to use as a supplement.) What about some online supplements? Then at the end of the year you could have DS take some practice PSAT / SAT math sections, and see if there are areas that still need some work, which could be addressed either over the summer or in the following school year.

 

Ideas for online math supplements:

 

Algebra 2 Tutorials

http://www.professor-j.com/algebra2.htm

 

Holt, Rinehart, Winston: Algebra 2

http://go.hrw.com/gopages/ma/alg2_07.html

 

Hippo Campus: Algebra

http://www.hippocampus.org/Algebra;jsessionid=64F86BCAA1887A53A5A58E05B9E1BC28

 

Class Zone: Algebra 2 textbook online

http://www.classzone.com/books/algebra_2/index.cfm

 

Henrico County Public Schools: Algebra 2 Online!

http://teachers.henrico.k12.va.us/math/hcpsalgebra2/

 

Your Teacher: Algebra 2

http://www.yourteacher.com/browse-lessons.php?courseSubject=algebra2help

 

Homework Help: Algebra 2

http://www.algebra.com/algebra-2.mpl

 

Free Algebra Tutorials

http://algebra-tutoring.com/

 

 

BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
correction and addition
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All these different responses bring one thing to mind... why does it work for some kids and not others? I guess it's like any other curriculum.... but why are some kids able to do fine and others don't?

 

My guess would be that some students are able to apply the principles that they learn to types of problems they have never seen before and some just can't make that leap w/o practice. My son placed in 7th grade math, right after finishing 4th grade MUS. I think he made some educated guesses on some problems. ;)

 

I am trying to make the same decision as you, and I see our eldest are the same age too. I hate to leave MUS because it works for us. Also, he will be so young when starting Algebra. I am worried about making him scared of math! I have been thinking about doing 1 year of MUS, followed by one year of a more challenging program, since he will have plenty of time to complete it. That way if my younger children are not mathy, they can just use MUS.

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This is a timely thread for me. We are doing MUS Algebra 1 with my dd and it is not going well. We used TT for 7th and Pre-Algebra. She was not at all prepared for Algebra 1 even though she did beautifully both years prior to MUS Algebra 1. Her grades were consistently excellent prior to Algebra 1. But, I've had to purchase Key to Algebra to fill in gaps so she can continue with MUS.

 

MUS begins Algebra 1 with graphing. I have not found another program that does this. Some do not introduce graphing until Algebra 2 (please correct me here if I am incorrect on this).

 

Why does one program work with 1 dc but not another? I've seen that first hand in my own family. It must be a combination of learning styles and interests. Not every dc will be an engineer. Or an artist.

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Lori,

 

Thanks for the great suggestions. I originally thought about supplementing MUS with Foerster but I agree, too tough to do. He's a junior and he needs to finish Alg 2 this year, so leaving some for next year (the portion that is alg 2 in the text) is not something we want to do. Continuing with MUS and supplementing with some of the links you posted may be something to look into, but it's so much easier to switch and stick to one book. Besides, it looks like MUS leaves out some topics in addition to not having enough thinking problems, so again, lots of work for me.

 

That leaves my poor son working through math for yet another summer. Last year he had a lot of trouble with Jacobs Geometry so we had him do MUS Geometry through July. It was easy as pie, but it was still math.

 

Funny, we also started with MUS Alg 1 then switched to Jacobs. He did fine in that. Lots to think about. I feel so badly for my son since I keep switching curriculum on him. The one thing he did not want to do was math during the summer. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply with some helpful suggestions.

 

Yolanda

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MUS begins Algebra 1 with graphing. I have not found another program that does this. Some do not introduce graphing until Algebra 2 (please correct me here if I am incorrect on this).

.

 

You are incorrect. Algebra 1 focuses on graphing linear equations (straight lines). Algebra 2 focuses on graphing functions like parabolas.

 

FWIW, I think most alg 1 books introduce graphing quite early since point/slope formula is a rather basic alg 1 skill.

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One more thing - are there any other algebra 2 texts that are more challenging than MUS but less rigorous than Foerster? No Teaching Textbooks. Been there, done that with older son.

 

Yolanda

You might check out Margaret Lial's Intermediate Algebra. From what I saw in the Algebra I, it was more challenging than MUS but less rigorous than Foerster.

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My guess would be that some students are able to apply the principles that they learn to types of problems they have never seen before and some just can't make that leap w/o practice. My son placed in 7th grade math, right after finishing 4th grade MUS. I think he made some educated guesses on some problems. ;)

 

I am trying to make the same decision as you, and I see our eldest are the same age too. I hate to leave MUS because it works for us. Also, he will be so young when starting Algebra. I am worried about making him scared of math! I have been thinking about doing 1 year of MUS, followed by one year of a more challenging program, since he will have plenty of time to complete it. That way if my younger children are not mathy, they can just use MUS.

 

Yes, we seem to be in the same place! What book is your eldest in? Jayden is in Delta. He is moving through at a pretty good pace... nothing is hard for him so I figure he'll be in Epsilon in 2-3 mos.

 

What I love about MUS is if they are math minded they can do the higher math at younger ages. My guess is you won't scare your ds away since MUS is so gentle and the concepts are taught so concretely. I'm guessing at the pace we're going we'd hit pre-Algebra in end of 5th/ into 6th grade? I don't know how that lines up with a public school track?? That seems pretty early to me...but is it okay because of how the material is presented?

 

I may start to look at some supplements once we hit Epsilon, if not only for the fact of seeing if the concepts Jay is learning are carried over to another curriculum/way of doing it. I just don't want to confuse him by giving him too many ways of doing things.

 

I just don't want to mess anything up with how my kids love math. They never complain and I want to keep it that way! I have kids who love learning the "whys" of things. (We do a spelling curriculum that helps them see "why" words are spelled a certain way and they (and I) love that.) I would hate to resolve myself to a curriculum that only teaches rote memorization or formulas and doesn't give them the "whys" in favor of rigor.

 

Ugggg.... I am so comfortable with the little ones and curriculum. As they get older this is going to stretch me! :glare:

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What book is your eldest in?

 

He is finishing up Epsilon and Life Of Fred Fractions.

 

What I love about MUS is if they are math minded they can do the higher math at younger ages. My guess is you won't scare your ds away since MUS is so gentle and the concepts are taught so concretely.

 

I meant, I don't want to scare him off by doing an Algebra program that is too rigorous. That is why I was thinking about doing MUS first and something more rigorous later.

 

I'm guessing at the pace we're going we'd hit pre-Algebra in end of 5th/ into 6th grade? I don't know how that lines up with a public school track?? That seems pretty early to me...but is it okay because of how the material is presented?

 

I think it is normal to start Algebra in 8th, but I am not sure.

 

We do the same spelling as you too!

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I am using MUS all the way for both of my kids---one in high school already using Algebra 1/Geometry combo and ds in 8th using MUS Algebra 1. I plan on using MUS all the way through Calc with my son. . ;)

 

 

 

I have been told by the Australian distributor that MUS doesn't go up to calculus. One of the reasons that we switched to Saxon.

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Well, I would NEVER EVER even consider using just one math program. That probably, by itself, changes my view of EVERY program.

 

However, my ds is using MUS and I seriously *wish* that I had used it throughout with my daughter. BTW, my daughter agrees. My son is very intuitive with math but has a lot of difficulty with algorithms and retention with a math program. LDs and developmental issues don't help. My daughter was very academically bright but not math-intuitive. I really believe that MUS would have been a nice addition to our math all along even thought both my kids have natural abilities with math (probably because MOM enjoys and does pretty well with math).

 

Anyway, I'm glad my ds is getting MUS. I wish my daughter had. But there is no way I'd settle on ONE curriculum for any level. BTW, my daughter says that is because I believe in child torture. However, considering she completed through Calc II and Stats by 16, I would say it worked pretty well and didn't slow her down too much. :)

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I've heard a lot about LOF... how do you like it? This is something I am considering alongside Epsilon. How do you schedule the two programs?

 

My son has an enrichment day each week where he does LOF math, typing, Rosetta Stone, reading, educational videos and science experiments. LOF Fractions starts off really easy compared to MUS, so I think we started LOF a few weeks before MUS. I make sure LOF always stays behind MUS, so that he can be challenged to think outside the box, but not to learn new material.

 

I have heard that LOF is more rigorous than MUS, but in this book, I just don't see it. I would never use LOF fractions as a stand alone program. My son does find LOF more difficult though, but I think it is because they do not explain things well. There have been lots of problems that he has gotten stuck on, but I can't find an explanation in the book. All of the problems have been very easy mathematically, but require thinking outside the box. I think that is great for him, but I won't use LOF for a student that struggles with math. I am not sure he has gotten anything out of the book, that a challenging word problem book would not have given him, but he likes it and considers it fun!

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My son has an enrichment day each week where he does LOF math, typing, Rosetta Stone, reading, educational videos and science experiments. LOF Fractions starts off really easy compared to MUS, so I think we started LOF a few weeks before MUS. I make sure LOF always stays behind MUS, so that he can be challenged to think outside the box, but not to learn new material.

 

I have heard that LOF is more rigorous than MUS, but in this book, I just don't see it. I would never use LOF fractions as a stand alone program. My son does find LOF more difficult though, but I think it is because they do not explain things well. There have been lots of problems that he has gotten stuck on, but I can't find an explanation in the book. All of the problems have been very easy mathematically, but require thinking outside the box. I think that is great for him, but I won't use LOF for a student that struggles with math. I am not sure he has gotten anything out of the book, that a challenging word problem book would not have given him, but he likes it and considers it fun!

 

Thanks for your feedback! I'm not sold... I think I probably just need to stick with what we're doing until I feel like it isn't working. Why fix something that ain't broke at this point! I did look at the table of contents and a sample of fractions... the whole first section of the fractions book is what we've already mostly covered in MUS... I'm not feeling the love yet!

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My ds is a junior, doing the MUS Pre-Calculus. He did MUS Algebra 1 & 2, and Geometry. Did okay on the ACT. Math was around 24. Higher than the national average but not super high. That was his lowest score, if I remember correctly, as the numbers aren't in front of me.

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If I started all over again, I would use it from the beginning to the end.

 

My son is using LOF and we do love it (I'd probably have my kids read it anyway just because of the thinking skills).

 

My oldest used MUS Geometry and did well with it. We used some of the upper elementary levels and liked them. I just really wish I would've stuck with it and not worried so much about what people thought about it.

 

Anyway, I have no real MUS upper level experience to draw from, but I'm just plugging it anyway!

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If I started all over again, I would use it from the beginning to the end.

 

My son is using LOF and we do love it (I'd probably have my kids read it anyway just because of the thinking skills).

 

My oldest used MUS Geometry and did well with it. We used some of the upper elementary levels and liked them. I just really wish I would've stuck with it and not worried so much about what people thought about it.

 

Anyway, I have no real MUS upper level experience to draw from, but I'm just plugging it anyway!

 

Thank you for this feedback. I've been going around and around.... I think for me, the most important thing is that it is working for us and I need to stick with one thing. I want to prevent gaps and holes. I think something like LOF might be good as an "extra" if my kids would like that, but really, I need to keep it simple for them and me. I needed to remind myself that MUS is a WTM recommended curriculum. It can't be that bad! ;) Your post encourages me to just stick with it... as long as it's working and not worry so much about what others are doing, thanks!:D

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  • 2 years later...

Wow, these are great resources for online algebra supplements! Thanks so much!!

 

Our older DS is in the midst of Foerster Algebra 2 right now; it is a substantial textbook, teaching multiple methods of problem solving for each topic, and with SO many problems for each lesson, that I only assign a portion of the problems after the first 2 lessons of each chapter. Foerster also comes at the math from a completely different point of view than MUS. (Younger DS just finished MUS Algebra 1 and is in the midst of MUS Geometry, so I am also familiar with upper levels of MUS; we will supplement MUS Geometry with Jacobs Geometry, and will use something ?? to supplement MUS Algebra 2 when we get there.)

 

For those 2 reasons (rigorous, different viewpoint), I would suggest that it will still take a full year to complete Foerster Algebra 2. If you were to switch from MUS mid-year, then your son would either need to work very diligently all through the summer to complete Foerster, or he would use the first semester of next school year to complete Foerster.

 

Or, you could have him continue with MUS this year and consider it overview for easing him into doing Foerster Alg. 2 all next year. Repeating algebra is not necessarily a bad thing, as the student is getting 2 years and 2 approaches to Algebra 2 -- and remember, algebra (rather than geometry) concepts are what are stressed on the SAT, ACT, etc. tests. Our younger DS did Jacobs Algebra 1 all last year, and I was not convinced he "got it" at all, so he did all of MUS Algebra 1 for the first semester of this year to review/cement the concepts.

 

Another option might be to continue MUS through this year, but supplement it. (Foerster would NOT be easy to use as a supplement.) What about some online supplements? Then at the end of the year you could have DS take some practice PSAT / SAT math sections, and see if there are areas that still need some work, which could be addressed either over the summer or in the following school year.

 

Ideas for online math supplements:

 

Algebra 2 Tutorials

http://www.professor-j.com/algebra2.htm

 

Holt, Rinehart, Winston: Algebra 2

http://go.hrw.com/gopages/ma/alg2_07.html

 

Hippo Campus: Algebra

http://www.hippocampus.org/Algebra;jsessionid=64F86BCAA1887A53A5A58E05B9E1BC28

 

Class Zone: Algebra 2 textbook online

http://www.classzone.com/books/algebra_2/index.cfm

 

Henrico County Public Schools: Algebra 2 Online!

http://teachers.henrico.k12.va.us/math/hcpsalgebra2/

 

Your Teacher: Algebra 2

http://www.yourteacher.com/browse-lessons.php?courseSubject=algebra2help

 

Homework Help: Algebra 2

http://www.algebra.com/algebra-2.mpl

 

Free Algebra Tutorials

http://algebra-tutoring.com/

 

 

BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmly, Lori D.

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I just don't want to mess anything up with how my kids love math. They never complain and I want to keep it that way! I have kids who love learning the "whys" of things. (We do a spelling curriculum that helps them see "why" words are spelled a certain way and they (and I) love that.) I would hate to resolve myself to a curriculum that only teaches rote memorization or formulas and doesn't give them the "whys" in favor of rigor.

 

Ugggg.... I am so comfortable with the little ones and curriculum. As they get older this is going to stretch me! :glare:

 

 

I feel this way too. I realize this is an older thread, but just wanted to comment on this because I feel the same way about math. I'm scared of "picking the wrong thing". I feel like what we've done up to now has been great for laying a solid foundation for math and my son is very math-inclined. He really gets math and loves it, thinks of it like a puzzle. I want to continue that, and want to be sure he continues to understand on a deeper level and not just learn shortcuts. I took AP Calculus in HS and I didn't understand a single thing I did and have no idea how I even passed that class, let alone get a decent grade. It wasn't until college when I felt like I really started to understand math in a way I never had before. (despite taking high level math in HS and even doing well in the math on the SAT)

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