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Another question for those who have sent children to college...


Guest Virginia Dawn
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Guest Virginia Dawn

If they were accepted to multiple schools did you help your dc make the final decision, or did you leave it completely up to them?

 

What factors contributed the most to the decision? Finances, college prestige, atmosphere, something else?

 

All other things being equal which choice would you encourage for your child: A nationally renowned, top tier, very selective, state college, where your child would probably just be considered average; OR an up and coming state college that has been gaining a good reputation over the last few years, where your child would be probably be in the top of his class and get lots of perks, and more financial aid.

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It was a joint decision. Visits helped rule 2 out just on distance. It came down to 2 and ds knew when he was on one campus, he could see himself there. It ended up also being the least expensive. If he had felt he could see himself more at the other, which was the 2nd most expensive, we would have found a way. JMHO -- go for fit first, then see what you can get for financial aid.

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I notice that a lot of people posting here don't name specific colleges, and I don't know if that's to protect their privacy or what. I'm going to buck the trend because I would love to hear more about what specific colleges HSers are applying and being accepted/rejected at. We're going to be going through the college application process again this fall with my older son, and I'm always interested in where people are applying and why.

 

Last year, my DD was rejected at one school, Duke. She was wait-listed at Kenyon, Davidson, and Wash U in St. Louis. She was accepted at the UK Honors program, Washington & Lee, Centre and Transylvania. She decided first off that she didn't want to wait on the waiting list schools, even though Wash U was probably her top choice. I don't blame her. By the time she had heard from these schools, it was the end of March, and she really wanted to have her future settled after months of waiting.

 

UK is a big state university and five minutes from our house. We go to the campus all the time for doctor and orthodontist visits and NONE of my kids are very interested in attending. I think the size and anonymity of the place intimidates them. Even the Honors program didn't excite my daughter much and, frankly, they didn't do anything to "sell themselves" to her.

 

Washington & Lee didn't offer any scholarship (my DD didn't want to bother applying for their merit scholarships because the application was due in early December and she was feeling overwhelmed by all her other deadlines).

 

Centre and Transy offered nice scholarships paying for about half of the total cost (and they are relatively inexpensive for private schools as it is), so her choice came down to those two. Bottom line for my DD was that she had already taken French courses at Transy and felt very comfortable at the college. She'd had a good experience during the scholarship weekend there. They had definitely done the best job in making her feel as if they WANTED her there. Also, Transy is in a larger city, whereas Centre is very small-town. I was thrilled that she was going to stay in-town and it's been very convenient for all of us. It took us all of 15 minutes to pick her up and take her back at spring break :) OTOH, I told her that if she went there, I would give her as much space as she needed. She lives on-campus and will be doing so for four years. The first couple of months, I followed a very hands-off policy and let her do all the calling home. She came to visit us only when SHE wanted to.

 

Knowing what I know now ... specifically, that even if your family doesn't qualify for financial aid (which ours doesn't) you can find plenty of schools offering good merit scholarships ... that's the direction I'm going to steer my older son. His test scores are higher than his sister's and he's also very, very gifted in music. But I think, like his sister, he'll probably do better at a smaller, less competitive school. I went to an Ivy League school as did my brother, and I think both of us felt as if we "drifted" a lot while in college. A small school really seems to look out for its students, and I think this suits my children, who have been fairly sheltered and aren't used to an anonymous, fend-for-yourself atmosphere.

 

One example of how nicely Transy has treated us ... my son is taking Music Theory there this year. In January, my DH had surgery out of town and he and I and my youngest were gone for several days, leaving my older son alone in the house. He had mentioned this to his music theory professor, and this guy gave my son his work, home, and cell phone numbers just in case he needed help. I just thought that was so caring!

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For us the decision was a joint one.

 

We waited until ALL the offers came in and then eliminated a few based on money. (While we could have afforded them, they cost enough that we would not have been happy to pay for them, especially since her brother would be starting college the following year!)

 

This left two schools -- Washington & Lee and U. Delaware, both of which offered her full-tuition scholarships. Dh and dd visited both schools again and talked a lOT with profs. Dh went along on the visits as an extra pair of eyes and ears -- he talked with people independently of her and actually came away with impressions and comments that sometimes surprised her!

 

Then they came home and talked and talked and talked. They compared academic rigor, they compared course offerings (U. Delaware is the only school in the country to offer her desired major at the undergraduate level). They compared types of students. They compared dollars and cents. They looked at proximity of churches, the religious programs on campus, proximity of F&D corps, other extracurricular offerings. They compared and talked and prayed and talked. On April 28th they were up past midnight talking and talking. Dd finally chose W&L and has been VERY happy there.

 

Right now we are waiting for the mailman. Ds has some very nice offers, but before we make the airplane reservations we want to see if any can be eliminated on the basis of money. Once we know where we stand financially, ds and dh will start the visits!

 

As far as prestige U vs state U with money, it all depends on the schools, the amount of money, the programs, etc. I think that is a very individual choice; I don't think anyone can make some grandiose generalization about it.

 

Praying for LOTS of wisdom for all the graduating seniors and their parents!

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I'm actually the student, so perhaps there will be a bit of a different perspective here..

 

I decided not to apply to state colleges (where I could have gotten full scholarships) because I did not want to go to a big school. I graduated from a very large public high school and did not want to deal with that any more!

 

I finished applying to University of Dallas, Trinity University, and Hendrix College. I was accepted to all three and received scholarships from all three. I was also accepted to Mount Holyoke College, but I never finished the application -- I did all of it but one part and was not expecting to hear anything from them!

 

I visited Hendrix, UD, and Trinity. I didn't feel comfortable at Hendrix, and they were not able to give me financial aid for everything because I was an out of state student. I loved Trinity, but my original financial aid package included a loan for my parents, which was simply unacceptable. That was later altered, but by that point I was pretty sure I wanted to go to UD.

 

I decided on UD for several reasons. UD gave me the overall best financial aid package. I wanted a more religious environment. I don't know how the "typical college scene" is at Trinity, but at UD it is easily avoidable and is probably better than at other schools. UD is close to home, which was important and has since turned out to be even more important. I'm really glad I'm able to come home, go to church, and see my family and my boyfriend on a semi-regular basis. It also gives me a chance to get away from dorm life, which I think helps me not get as annoyed at my three roommates as they sometimes get at each other! (We chose to room together.)

 

My parents really left the decision to me. I think this was because 1) it's my life and I have to live it, and 2) I am the one taking out the loans and otherwise dealing with what isn't covered by scholarships or grants.

 

I really love UD, but sometimes wish I'd gone with the full scholarship at the state university. It would be easier and I wouldn't be going into debt! I know that I'm being challenged much more and overall having a better experience here than I would there, though, so it's worth it.

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I decided on UD for several reasons. UD gave me the overall best financial aid package. I wanted a more religious environment. I don't know how the "typical college scene" is at Trinity, but at UD it is easily avoidable and is probably better than at other schools. UD is close to home, which was important and has since turned out to be even more important. I'm really glad I'm able to come home, go to church, and see my family and my boyfriend on a semi-regular basis. It also gives me a chance to get away from dorm life, which I think helps me not get as annoyed at my three roommates as they sometimes get at each other! (We chose to room together.)

 

 

Hanna, Thank you for your response. May I ask you a few questions about UD since my dd (a junior this year) is considering UD as one of her options for Fall 2009?

 

1) Are you Catholic? I ask this b/c we are not; we're devout protestant Christians. We just received a letter from the president of the college that almost sounded like a warning to us. It had so many references to the pope and to Catholic doctrine that it has worried us a bit. Now don't misunderstand, we like Catholic christians, we just don't want to become them. Will they try to convert my dd? I have heard that many non-Catholics do convert while they are there.

 

2) If you are not Catholic, how do you find it? Are the fine academics at UD (what really attracts us) worth dealing with the Catholic doctrine that you disagree with?

 

 

I really love UD, but sometimes wish I'd gone with the full scholarship at the state university. It would be easier and I wouldn't be going into debt! I know that I'm being challenged much more and overall having a better experience here than I would there, though, so it's worth it.

 

3) Do you mean that the actual classes and school work would be easier at state U? How so? What makes UD more of a challenge?

 

4) What do you think is the better experience that you have at UD as compared with what you might have gotten at state U?

 

Thanks!

 

TerriKY

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I did the majority of research for colleges after finding out ds's preferences. He has a double major/or major/minor that is somewhat specialized (exercise science) so that narrowed things down a bit. He also wanted a smaller school near the beach and we weren't ready to send him out west so that really narrowed things down. I bet you didn't know that being near the beach was extremely important when choosing a college.:lol: We found several small private liberal arts colleges and he was accepted at all with some good aid packages for academic achievements. I think the school ds chose is a good fit for him. There are a nice variety of students there and many seem to share his interests. It is a Christian college but the environment seems laid back. It reminds me of a big youth group. There are lots of wholesome activities for the kids to participate in and they require community service. And there is the beach, of course. Here is what was most important in a college decision for us: As parents we did not want to feel like we were putting up lots of $$ to send our child to a school that would contradict our and his beliefs. I believe college is a time to learn and stretch one's thinking but college students are still impressionable and we didn't want him to be exposed to some of the craziness and attitudes that are not necessarily an important part of college life. We wanted a college that would encourage him to think, build meaningful relationships, continue to build his character, and prepare him for life. Some family members were disappointed that we didn't have him apply to some bigger or more "prestigious" schools but that isn't what we were looking for.

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Guest Katia

Well, we haven't made our decision yet, so I don't know if my posting will be of any help or not, but we are in the middle of this college-decision thing.

 

DD applied to 5 colleges and was accepted to all. She auditioned at all five and was accepted to four and haven't heard from one School of Music.

 

So far, all have offered her fairly good academic scholarships, despite the fact that we know she is not a terrific scholar. She is "normal" when it comes to academics.

 

We have heard from all but one in regards to music scholarships. They are also very nice, most in the range of 1/4 to 1/2 tuition.

 

Only two colleges have gotten back to us with the entire package amount.

 

We have determined not to make a final decision until we have heard back from all schools. This is been a heart-wrenching decision and although dd has her 'favorite' school where she felt the best and liked the student attitude/atmosphere the best, it was not necessarily the best music teacher. Not bad, just not the best.

 

So, we have been discussing this endlessly and going around and around in circles. But, what dd wants out of her college experience is the decision that will prevail, even if it means we go into debt. Not that we have money because we don't, but, we are already paying tons and tons more than ps to homeschool the kiddos so that they have a superior (for them) education. We spent tons and tons more for music and ballet lessons (good, professional ones that we've had to really drive to have access to these programs).

 

Why would we decide to go with a 'cheaper' college that isn't necessarily up-to-snuff at this point in the game? I know that answer is because we can't afford it.....but dd is looking at smaller private school vs big state U's.

 

Oh, AND she wants to 'get away' (as in "not in our state") so that rules out the small Christian college where her current music teacher is the prof. Sigh. Of course, they are the most expensive of all the colleges we're looking at!

 

This tells you nothing except that we are looking at:

 

1) Academic value

2) atmosphere/number of students

3) music

4) money/offers

 

pretty much in that order. Dh is looking at money/offers FIRST. The rest doesn't matter to him, lol!

 

This is so stressful I can't wait until it's all over. Dd and I are worried that her fav school may not offer her a music scholarship (we haven't heard from them yet). That would really crush her, and we'd have to start the decision process all over again....with a defeated girl. sigh.

 

I wish we'd just hear from all these places with their offers pretty soon!!

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I think the hardest thing about the whole college decision thing is trying to keep your focus on YOUR child and NOT on what neighbors/parents/friends will think.

 

It is SO easy to get caught up in the "Harvard hype" -- the obsession with the name brand. But only you and your child can decide if the name school really has really superior offerings for your child and his interests.

 

IF you decide that the name school is genuinely more desirable than "less well-know college" or State U, only you and your child can decide if "Elite College"'s education is worth the increased cost.

 

Economics has the concept of "opportunity cost" -- what do you give up when you choose option X? If the tuition difference between more desirable X and less desirable Y is $1000, I think most of us would say to choose X. But what if Y is $5K cheaper? What if Y is $10K cheaper? What if Y is $40K cheaper?

 

There are families out there for whom the $40K difference would not be that big a deal. So that family might still choose X. But for a $40K difference, most of us would choose Y. But that decision is EXTREMELY personal, depending on retirement plans, size of piggybank, etc.

 

The funny thing is that state schools do have strong postives as well as negatives. Ds1 may well end up choosing between elite college A that doesn't have a really strong program in his major and state U B that has an incredibly strong program in his major. What will he do? We're waiting for that mailman!

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1) Are you Catholic? I ask this b/c we are not; we're devout protestant Christians. We just received a letter from the president of the college that almost sounded like a warning to us. It had so many references to the pope and to Catholic doctrine that it has worried us a bit. Now don't misunderstand, we like Catholic christians, we just don't want to become them. Will they try to convert my dd? I have heard that many non-Catholics do convert while they are there.

 

No, I'm not Catholic, nor am I planning on becoming Catholic. :) There are a LOT of Catholics on campus -- I think the figure is 75%. No one has directly tried to convert me. I've had discussions about religion with some of my friends, but it was in the context of something that came up or something I was curious about, not them finding out I was non-Catholic and grilling me on my beliefs! There may be some people there like that, but I haven't met any. :)

 

I love UD. It is really uplifting to me to know so many people my age who actually PRACTICE their faith. The academics are challenging, but I am learning so much and enjoying it. The academics DEFINITELY outweigh dealing with Catholic doctrine. Catholic doctrine is not by any means present in all the courses. Out of the classes I've had so far, the only one in which Catholic doctrine has been present was Understanding the Bible -- which is one of two required theology courses. I happen to find learning about Catholic doctrine interesting, so I don't mind those two courses. I think the other one, Western Theological Traditions, doesn't limit itself to Catholic doctrine. I haven't taken it yet, though.

 

I think classes at a state university would be much easier....

Example: At a normal state university, you have a year of required English. At UD, two years are required. In the first class, you read The Iliad, The Odyssey, The Aeneid, Beowulf, and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. In the second class, you read The Divine Comedy and Paradise Lost. I do not think any state university would do that or come anywhere close in the first English class taken by freshmen!! This kind of thing applies across the board. Just looking at the Core shows that. Usually I enjoy the challenge, but sometimes (like during mid-term or finals week) I wish I went to an easier college!

 

UD is a small school, so I know most of the people in my class. The Core Curriculum means I get to learn a lot of things I wouldn't otherwise learn, which can be a good and a bad thing. So far it's been a good thing. :) My professors know who I am. Aside from the beginning biology and chemistry classes for people planning to major in a science, I think all of the classes are small enough for the professors to know everyone in the class. From what I've heard, you don't get things like that at a state university usually.

 

If I had gone to a state university, it would probably have been UNT. UNT has about 36,000 students (as opposed to UD's 2000 or so). It is also jokingly referred to as "[my public high school] grade 13" because so many people go there. I'm one of two people from my high school at UD. The other one is a senior this year. There's really no comparison between the two. UD is a much, much better place for *me* to be. :)

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1) Are you Catholic? I ask this b/c we are not; we're devout protestant Christians. 2) If you are not Catholic, how do you find it? Are the fine academics at UD (what really attracts us) worth dealing with the Catholic doctrine that you disagree with?

 

I believe that Kathleen and LaJuana could help you out here. Protestant moms w/dc at UD. If they don't chime in, you might PM them or something.

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Ds1 may well end up choosing between elite college A that doesn't have a really strong program in his major and state U B that has an incredibly strong program in his major.

 

I'm just wondering how you figure out the strength of particular programs at college A and U B. I mean, I can look at US News or Fiske's Guide to Colleges--they give a little information. But is there a better way or something I'm missing? I have tried reading school website info, but they generally want to paint themselves as good. How can I really find out where they outstanding programs are? Suggestions?

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How do you find out what the good programs are?

 

That's a hard one -- but there are ways that you can learn more --

 

1) Look at the profs' research interests and bios. (All schools have this info buried somewhere). Did they go to strong grad schools in the subject area? Do their research interests somewhat overlap your dc's? (Example -- economics can have a policy bent OR a business bent, a US focus or an international focus, etc.)

 

2) Talk to the profs. They will actually tell you a LOT -- including that they think you should go to a different school because it has a stronger program than his school does! (Yes, really!)

 

3) Look at the requirements for a major. They actually do differ surprisingly -- even in subjects like chemistry and math. (And history requirements are ALL over the place -- when dd was thinkiing about majoring in history, she eliminated many many schools on the basis of their history major requirements!)

 

4) Is there some external accrediting that the program has? (For chemistry, some colleges' programs have something like ACS (American Chemical Society) approval (or maybe the student can get a ACS certificate -- I'm not sure But whatever it is, there is only one school in VA that does it, though another is trying. If dd wanted to major in chemistry and go to grad school, she would have chosen that particular school!). (This isn't quite the whole story -- so don't quote it! Even though dd is a chem major so we listened to a lot of chem presentations, since she is interested in art conservation she isn't going the super-rigorous chemistry route so we didn't pay attention to that part of the speeches!)

 

5) Ask what the students in the major do AFTER college. Grad school? Teaching? Employment? Where? The departments should have statistics on this; if they don't, they will at least be able to give you anecdotal evidence.

 

For example, in economics many many of the majors go to law school. That's wonderful, but if you want to go to grad school you want a college that places students in grad school reasonably regularly; the law school admissions statistics don't mean that much to you!

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Thank you, Hannah. I appreciate your answering my questions.:)

 

As for Kathleen and LaJuana, they have been so encouraging to me and have been the sources for most of my info about UD in the first place. I just wanted other perspective from Hannah, although further thoughts from Kathleen and LaJuana are _always_ welcome and appreciated. :bigear:

 

TerriKY

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Doing well where your student ends up is the most important thing. So I agree that fit, both with interests and enviroment, are very important. A couple of my friends with comparable highschool academics couldn't handle a big, state school enviroment, and went completely off track (and some were sucesss stories).

 

While interests do change, it is important to look at specific areas. I went to a small christian liberal arts college that has a descent academic reputation but is certainly not a top academic school. It did have strong departments in the areas I wanted to study, and a fair amount of opportunities for reserach etc that might not have been avalible at big state U. In the end, I was accepted to a top program for my masters, and a couple of the other top majors/minors also did very well. However, there are other departments at the same school that have not sent anyone to graduate school for years-the assumption is that students want to teach middle school or high school, and that is what the program produces. Talk to current students as well as faculty if you can and find out what opportunities students have, and where they are ending up.

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