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Talk to me more about TOG and writing...


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My oldest will be entering high school this fall, so I'm trying to decide if TOG would fit our family. I need something that holds my hand for teaching literature at the high school level. Would TOG do this? Also, does it give writing assignments related to literature analysis? Are writing assignments clear? I also need much hand holding with writing. I need help in teaching my children HOW to write something that is being asked of them. We just finished IEW's SWI-B, and we all liked it. It's very clear, and we all need that.

 

I'll have a ninth, seventh, fifth, and first grader next year. I'm mostly worried about giving enough good instruction to my high schooler without neglecting everyone else. So, sell me on TOG--why do you like it?

 

I have so many questions about high school in general and TOG, but I'll leave it at this for now. :001_smile:

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:lurk5: I hope I'm not asking anyone to repeat what's already been said on other threads--I'm trying to read those too. I just really would like some clarity on TOG and the writing aspect of it, as well as why or why not some of you use or don't use TOG for high school.

 

I also get the idea that this board moves very slowly compared to the K-8 or General boards. Ha!

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Well, since no one else has replied I'll answer what I can.

 

TOG will definitely hold your hand in literature. this is our 2nd year covering high school lit, and I've taught the lit co-op class both years, and it has been great for me as a teacher. The discussion questions are there in the teachers notes, along with the answers broken down by what I should expect the students to be able to give, and more in depth answers they might not be able to come up with on their own. At the beginning of the teacher notes in the lit section there is a list of what I should read as the teacher in order to have the background info for the discussion. I've never needed to read all the material my student has to read. It's very hard for most rhetoric students in the beginning, but I'm always amazed at the growth they show in class discussion as the year progresses.

 

We didn't do the lit analysis papers last year, as we had all young, new rhetoric students. Our first one comes up in a couple of weeks. So I don't have first hand experience in that area. I can tell you, that there is an explanation of the assignment in the teacher notes, as well as suggested topics. You would get more in depth help in teaching this if you also have the Writing Aids book. That book contains specific help on what literary analysis papers look like, prewriting forms for your students to use, and grading rubrics for you to help in grading the papers.

 

One more very valuable thing -- the author of the rhetoric lit portion of TOG is always available on the TOG forums. She always takes great pains to answer any rhetoric lit questions that come up -- you can search back through old questions & answers or ask you own.

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TOG literature is great and includes a lot of help for the teacher, but it is something the teacher needs to focus on a little each week at least (that's probably not very clear - my brain isn't working well today), in other words it's relatively teacher intensive.

 

Helps for Teacher:

There is a wonderful 55 page Teaching Rhetoric Literature manual that outlines how to teach Rhetoric literature. Along with tips on how to teach rhetoric lit, there are grading schemes, suggestions on lightening the load if the schedule is too much for your student, and tips for co-ops.

 

Weekly discussion script/answer key.

 

At the beginning of most week's literature teacher's notes there is an orange box which gives recommendations of what the teacher should read that week to help you have a fruitful discussion.

 

Helps for Students:

The goals of Tapestry's rhetoric literature are understanding, evaluating, and enjoying literature by reading thinking writing and testing (if you choose to test.) There are two documents that students read along side their weekly literature assignment; Frameworks and Poetics.

 

Frameworks is the history of literature, it sets the stage for the work being read and is 277 pages packed full of really useful information. It covers worldview through the ages as authors wrote Romanticism, Realism, Modernism, Post-modernism, etc. Also included are mini author bios and some really outstanding charts comparing various worldviews.

 

Poetics is a literary handbook covering the theory of literature from defining fiction - what is a story, what is a poem, what is drama, to defining literary terms and understanding literary analysis. Along with instruction on how to analyze, Poetics includes a literary terms index and some handy charts to help with analysis.

 

TOG and Writing:

Each week there are 12 levels of writing assignments usually with at least two choices. At the high school/rhetoric level you can either use the level equivalent to your students grade or go down or up a level. Most writing assignments deal with history not literature, but there are also optional literary analysis papers throughout each year plan - personal response to literature papers, classical comparison papers, literary comparison papers, and there may be one or two more.

 

You will need a writing handbook, TOG sells Writing Aids which is nice because it's tailored to the program or you could use something else. Before writing their own handbook they recommended the Write Source guides.

 

Testing:

You could give you student a weekly literary terms quiz using the index cards they make.

 

If you purchase the optional Evaluations you can give your student a literary exam after every unit. The literary exam includes defining terms, worldview, and a long (45 or 50 min.?) essay. The answer key includes a sample essay that shows you the kind of information your student should have included.

 

The weekly exams include essays as well but relating to history.

 

Misc.:

Each week also includes recitation suggestions

 

Year 1 literature is slightly different from Years 2-4. Marcia Somerville's daughter Christy authored Years 2-4. Year 1 is still good, but students don't use Frameworks or Poetics. It's not part of the schedule anyway, if you had it from another year plan and they wanted to use aspects of it I'm sure it would be helpful. Christy posted the other day that they may or may not update Year 1. If they do the upgrade it won't be ready anytime soon, maybe for the 2011-2012 school year. If you purchase Digital Year 1 you get the upgrade for free.

 

That's all I can think of for now. I'll check back if you have any questions.

HTH,

Karen

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Karen,

 

Wow! Thanks! And to Jana too--thanks! I guess my next question for you all is about the books that are used. I really can't find on their website what books are used for the student to read. I'm finding the website difficult to navigate. Do they suggest read alouds?

 

Also, were you able to find the books TOG uses at the library or did you have to buy a lot of the books?

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What Karen said. . . . . . . ;)

 

I just want to add this, from my dd17 (she's standing right here, I made her give me a quote! :D)

 

"I really enjoy it because it's looking at literature with a Christian perspective, and it's really good at getting into the books and talking about Worldview. You are really analyzing literature, and I REALLY enjoy it."

 

Literature has become her favorite subject. I had really no training at ALL in this in college, and I feel the notes are helping me sound somewhat intelligent.

 

For my next go-around with Ds13 (he'll be doing R Lit next year as a 9th grader), I'm going to make more of an effort to read the books myself first. mainly b/c I want to, not because I need to - does that make sense???

 

HTH!

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What Karen said. . . . . . . ;)

 

I just want to add this, from my dd17 (she's standing right here, I made her give me a quote! :D)

 

"I really enjoy it because it's looking at literature with a Christian perspective, and it's really good at getting into the books and talking about Worldview. You are really analyzing literature, and I REALLY enjoy it."

 

Literature has become her favorite subject. I had really no training at ALL in this in college, and I feel the notes are helping me sound somewhat intelligent.

 

For my next go-around with Ds13 (he'll be doing R Lit next year as a 9th grader), I'm going to make more of an effort to read the books myself first. mainly b/c I want to, not because I need to - does that make sense???

 

HTH!

 

Thanks for sharing that!

 

I thought of another question about TOG besides the one above about books. How much time does TOG take for the student each day?

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Karen,

 

Wow! Thanks! And to Jana too--thanks! I guess my next question for you all is about the books that are used. I really can't find on their website what books are used for the student to read. I'm finding the website difficult to navigate. Do they suggest read alouds?

 

Also, were you able to find the books TOG uses at the library or did you have to buy a lot of the books?

 

Check out www.bookshelfcentral.com put in the year your student is the unit they are using and what level and even subject and you will get a list of books used. You can buy from there or use it to look up at your local library. I just did this to see if we could do this and use books from the library. Looks like a go for us. :)

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Bookshelf Central is a great place to get a listing of books, especially to see a picture of the cover. You can also get a list on the TOG web site: click on "Store" and then "Resource List". You have to create an account, and then you'll get access to the booklists.

 

For Year 1 & 2 Rhetoric, where your students will be using Norton's Anthology for many assignments, try using the Scope & Sequence to see which titles are used. Click on "Year 1" or "Year 2" and then click on Scope & Sequence to see that pdf file.

 

As far as time goes, we use TOG for history, literature, geography, government, church history, fine arts, and philosophy. So it takes up the vast bulk of time for my R level son. He adds in chemistry & geometry, plus speech & debate, for a very full load. He begins around 8:30, works until 3 or 3:30, and reads some before bed and on weekends. (this also includes time out for going to co-op 2 days a week and speech & debate one afternoon).

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Bookshelf Central is a great place to get a listing of books, especially to see a picture of the cover. You can also get a list on the TOG web site: click on "Store" and then "Resource List". You have to create an account, and then you'll get access to the booklists.

 

For Year 1 & 2 Rhetoric, where your students will be using Norton's Anthology for many assignments, try using the Scope & Sequence to see which titles are used. Click on "Year 1" or "Year 2" and then click on Scope & Sequence to see that pdf file.

 

As far as time goes, we use TOG for history, literature, geography, government, church history, fine arts, and philosophy. So it takes up the vast bulk of time for my R level son. He adds in chemistry & geometry, plus speech & debate, for a very full load. He begins around 8:30, works until 3 or 3:30, and reads some before bed and on weekends. (this also includes time out for going to co-op 2 days a week and speech & debate one afternoon).

 

Thanks for all that info. How much time do you have to spend on helping your ds with all that you do in TOG?

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Year 3 Redesign also has some assignments not listed on the Bookshelf, actually Year 4 does too. Year 3 has a Literature Anthology put together by Lampstand Press ($25) and Year 4 has some poems that are on the Loom. I believe if you look at the Scope and Sequence for each year (Year 1, Year 2, Year 3) you will get the best idea of what students read (it's not available for Year 4 yet.)

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Year 3 Redesign also has some assignments not listed on the Bookshelf, actually Year 4 does too. Year 3 has a Literature Anthology put together by Lampstand Press ($25) and Year 4 has some poems that are on the Loom. I believe if you look at the Scope and Sequence for each year (Year 1, Year 2, Year 3) you will get the best idea of what students read (it's not available for Year 4 yet.)

 

Thanks for those links! Very helpful.

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My oldest did years 1 and 2 as dialectic and this year as 9th grade he is doing rhetoric for year 3. I chose only to do the history as written, church history as written and modify the literature. We did IEW C in the fall along with a sprinkling of TOG writing projects and we are doing a research paper now then part of Elegant Essay and TOG writing. He probably spends an hour or so on the history/church history section every day ( we do geography and timelines as well) and an at least an hour on the literature. He is a math/science guy but has REALLY enjoyed the literature and I haven't had to modify it nearly as much as I planned. He loves Poetics and Frameworks. He loved Les Miserable and he is loving A TALE of Two Cities (I subbed that for Great Expectations because it is my favorite book and I've taught it in school before.) I hope that helps. I haven't had to get many of the rhetoric literature books as I've just used all my anthologies from college and I own most classic books.

 

Christine

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As far as time *I* spend on TOG, here's a quick rundown.

 

-- in the summer I spend about 2 weeks reading over the Loom documents, reading Unit introductions, planning how to cut down the R literature assignments (this is covered in the Loom documents) and just wrapping my mind around how the year should shape up.

 

-- I also do a completely unnecessary thing, but it's something my ds and dd love and beg me to do -- Before each unit, I copy/paste all the student questions into a Word document and reformat them so they have blank spaces under each question. Then I print out those pages and put them in a 3-ring binder. This takes me several hours (usually while I'm watching tv) of time (I do both D and R pages -- next year both my students will be in R-- yea!). I used to take them to Staples to have them spiral bound, but after a year of that I found the time and expense not worth it.

 

-- Before each unit, I spend a day printing the maps & timeline figures for the upcoming unit. I place these in the 3-ring binder with the student question pages.

 

-- Each week, I spend about 2 hours going over the teacher notes and prepping for the lit discussion.

 

-- For discussion time with my ds, I spend 1.5 hrs in lit co-op class on Mondays, and 3 hrs. in co-op class for history/church history/govt/philosophy on Fridays

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As far as time *I* spend on TOG, here's a quick rundown.

 

-- in the summer I spend about 2 weeks reading over the Loom documents, reading Unit introductions, planning how to cut down the R literature assignments (this is covered in the Loom documents) and just wrapping my mind around how the year should shape up.

 

-- I also do a completely unnecessary thing, but it's something my ds and dd love and beg me to do -- Before each unit, I copy/paste all the student questions into a Word document and reformat them so they have blank spaces under each question. Then I print out those pages and put them in a 3-ring binder. This takes me several hours (usually while I'm watching tv) of time (I do both D and R pages -- next year both my students will be in R-- yea!). I used to take them to Staples to have them spiral bound, but after a year of that I found the time and expense not worth it.

 

-- Before each unit, I spend a day printing the maps & timeline figures for the upcoming unit. I place these in the 3-ring binder with the student question pages.

 

-- Each week, I spend about 2 hours going over the teacher notes and prepping for the lit discussion.

 

--

 

That is EXACTLY what I do as well. Making the notebooks takes me awhile, though. In fact, I haven't done unit 4 yet. Part of my problem is that I am modifying. My dialectic has already read a lot of the literature selections. Sometimes I have him read the alternate, sometimes the rhetoric. Plus, they are sharing church history. Sometimes I pick the dialectic selection, sometimes the rhetoric. So I copy and paste whichever questions I'm using.

 

I also make out a syllabus for each quarter. For example here is the week we are on week 20:

Week 20

Franklin Pierce and the Crimean War

The Age of Nationalism and Reform p. 77-97

The Civil War pp. 44-66

The Victorian Internet ch 4 and 5

The Pigtail and Chopsticks Man ch 12-20

American Presidency: Franklin Pierce

2. Questions/Charts

3. Timeline

4. Maps

 

Here is my lit:

Week 20

Vocabu-lit lesson 20

High School Writing Intensive disc 2

Final Draft of Research Paper Due

Analytical Grammar: Gerund Phrases

Literature: Poetry of Whitman, Dickinson, and Hopkins

 

  • A Poetry Handbook p. 105-208

  • Poetic readings

  • Framework Readings

  • The Making of a Poem 154-160

Words of Delight 36-39

 

 

Christine

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All this information is fabulous. Thanks to everyone who is contributing.

 

I have a question about the Loom. I don't quite understand what this is. I saw a post somewhere that indicated maybe I could see a loom document off the website, but I thought the loom was something I might need to buy. :confused: What exactly is the loom, and is it something you all have found necessary to use?

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I haven't read the other responses and my oldest is in 8th grade / level 8 in Writing Aids.

 

One thing I have loved so far is that they really ease the student into writing at the beginning of the year. Review of the parts of speech (using your own resources), then moving on to good paragraph structure and then short essays. I dread trying to teach writing, but I've been surprised at how much my "non-writer" has accomplished.

 

His writing isn't great by any means, but he IS learning good structure and how to push out a paragraph or two in a relatively short period of time. (The weekly TOG Evaluations help with that also - there is always a short essay question.)

 

I also like the grading rubrics they include and encourage the students to use to evaluate and improve on their own writing.

 

The Writing Aids teaching book is easy to use, and the TOG website / Loom also has additional resources.

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Regarding the Loom -- it is an essential piece of the puzzle. It contains lengthy articles explaining everything from the philosophy behind TOG to recipes for making salt dough maps. It has all the "how to" articles for implementing the program.

 

There are essentially 2 parts to the Loom -- the public portion which is available to everyone, located on the website, and the non-public portion, which comes with your TOG year plan when you purchase it.

 

The public portion is more general in information and has things you might want to know about before you buy TOG: things like credits for high school, etc.

 

The non-public portion has the information that pertains specifically to that particular year plan, so it is copyright protected.

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Regarding the Loom -- it is an essential piece of the puzzle. It contains lengthy articles explaining everything from the philosophy behind TOG to recipes for making salt dough maps. It has all the "how to" articles for implementing the program.

 

There are essentially 2 parts to the Loom -- the public portion which is available to everyone, located on the website, and the non-public portion, which comes with your TOG year plan when you purchase it.

 

The public portion is more general in information and has things you might want to know about before you buy TOG: things like credits for high school, etc.

 

The non-public portion has the information that pertains specifically to that particular year plan, so it is copyright protected.

 

Ah Ha! I see now. Thank you, thank you! :001_smile:

 

So, I see from my research that many think that Writing Aids is essential, and some don't need or want it at all. I'll have to keep reading and thinking about whether or not I would want WA if I decide to go with TOG.

 

If anyone has anything else to offer about TOG and writing, please chime in!

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