planning Latin from 6th to maybe 12th, Henle series

[Colleen in NS]

Hi,

 

Ds and dd started Latin studies in 3rd grade, with Prima Latina (dd is doing this now). Ds has completed LCI and II, and is doing Henle's First Year Latin now in 6th grade. I've never studied Latin, and I have just planned so far to follow the recs in WTM. For Henle 1, I planned that we would take 6th-8th grade to do it, simply because it's mentioned in WTM as a possibility. I just wonder how realistic this is, considering that Latin is not our only subject - see my sig. So far I've been able to keep up with either figuring the next exercise/lesson out on the spot or the night before, but I am slipping in my ability to keep grammar forms/vocab memorized. Ds does a lot better at it, and we do drill 3-4 days a week. I tried to keep up with studying a week ahead of time last year, but I just periodically panic about SO many new skills for me to learn and know about (grammar, math, science skills, logic, etc.), that I don't ever feel I can dive deeply enough into one skill area to teach it REALLY well - not and have time to do my life's other duties and sleep.

 

I guess I'm now questioning what I expect to get out of Latin study for my kids - do I want them to be able to read books in Latin? Do I want them to just have the mind exercise that studying Latin provides? The vocab background? Will they be disappointed if we don't get all the way through Henle 4? Does anyone even do that?? What is in books 3 and 4 anyway? What is book 2 all about - it seems to me like it's a lot more reading, but with review of grammar/new grammar, and exercises based on reading - is it considered a grammar course or a reading course or both? How stupid would it be to just learn the grammar/vocab and then not get to reading after book 2? What other questions should I be asking myself?

 

I'm wondering whether I should slow Henle 1 down to 4 years, because I *thought* I had plotted out a good pace, but we are a bit "behind" - we started off well because it was review of LC, but now we seem to be slowing down to absorb new concepts/prepare new flashcards/get notes into the notebook/work through the exercises.

 

Or maybe I need to tackle it differently? I let ds translate phrases and words orally, but for sentences I have him write down the Latin sentence when going from English to Latin. And, I admit, I have him write the Latin *and* English when going from Latin to English - I had in mind that it would be good for him to do "copywork" of Latin to get the feel of the words/spelling/sentence construction as already written in the book. Sounds good, but it does take up time....Part of this is that it saves *me* time - I do SO much of his other work orally with him (some math, grammar, etc.) as I tutor him through his first 1.5 or so hours of the day in various skills before giving him his independent work and assignment list. But he hates having to write Latin and English, and I'm unsure about making him do it - so I default for now to making him do it. I wonder if continuing in Latin will get easier for him to take over in the future - right now I'm still the driver for this. And we cannot afford online classes or tutors right now, and can't foresee that we will be able to in a few more years. And anyway, it just seems overall easier to do this at home, as long as I know how to teach my kids to study.

 

If Latin is going to be the ancient language of our high school studies, is it pointless to just get through book 2 (if I decide to slow it all down)? (High school here is only grades 10-12, BTW) Oh wait, I just realized something - book 2 says that it covers things from book 1, and that if you just get through unit 7 (I think) in book 1, units 8-14 will also be covered in book 2. But I'm the kind of girl who wants to finish one book before doing the next. Will book 2 be easier/faster if we complete book 1?

 

Also, since high school here is just three years, universities list requirements in 2-3 year increments, not four, so there isn't possibility (that I've seen yet, anyway) of uni requiring things like "four years of the same foreign language."

 

Thanks for reading - I basically just want to know what I should be considering as my end-of-high-school goal/s for Latin, and how pacing of Henle 1 and 2/fitting in 3 and 4 should figure into this. I'm not a LCC person - I couldn't drop English grammar to accommodate Latin. Also I'm wondering how realistic it is that a high schooler, trained in study skills (new vocab/grammar forms? make flashcards and drill every day, and write them out a few times in your notebook to rivet them in your mind. new concept/derivatives? take notes in your notebook. new exercises? write out the Latin, either in translation or as copywork.), could continue in Latin without me having *more* knowledge of the language than him/her (I know that later on a tutor would come in really handy - I'd probably rather find and pay for a knowledgeable tutor for help when snags happen, than to conform to an online class).

 

I hope this makes sense. I always just kind of "pour" my thoughts out when starting new threads about things I am wondering about.

[Lawana]

Colleen, I didn't want to see this thread die an untimely death after you put so much into writing it.

 

I wish I could give you answers, but instead, I'll share where we are at. Dd, 13, is an older 7th grader. She started with PL in 3rd grade, then did LCI in 4th and 5th. In 6th, we started LCII, but didn't manage to get past the first 5 chapters, all review of LCI:eek:. Knowing we needed to move on, I enrolled her in MP's online Henle1 for middle schoolers. It is an excellent fit for us. The first year only covers Units I & II. The second year covers Units III-V. It requires a third year to complete Henle1. MP publishes study guides for both these years that have detailed check lists, instructions for making grammar and vocabulary cards, other helpful information and hints. Even if you don't enroll, using the study guide helps keep things going. But perhaps you knew all that. ETA I see from another post that you're already using them.

 

As far as what I want dc to get out of Latin, I do have the goal for them to be able to read Latin, and not just laboriously translate sentence by sentence, but read with comprehension in Latin word order. I don't know where this will come from exactly, as from most descriptions of online classes I have read, it seems to be more oriented to the laborious translation method. But for now we're plowing ahead with Henle.

Dd is, fortunately, able to work independently on her Latin, which is a good thing, because as of the middle of 3rd declension, she left me in the dust. Even a year ago, she would not have been able to do any of this on her own. There is hope!

 

I have found it useful to read descriptions of Latin classes offered online, along with timetables for completing high school Latin. After reading Lukeion's strong preference for Wheelock's, and their assertion that Christian Latin courses did not prepare students to read ancient texts, I panicked a bit, thinking I would have to have dd do Wheelock's from scratch after completing Henle1. I then came across RCA's program that teaches both Wheelock's and Henle, with both leading to the same place, AP Vergil. I now feel more confident that Henle will give her enough to get her where I want her to eventually end up.

 

My frustration right now is that I want her to do Latina Angelica alongside Henle, but she is already spending 45 minutes or more a day on Henle, and we need to prioritize reading (she is finally getting some tutoring for her long term struggle with reading, but does great with Latin- go figure!) and writing (still in CW Homer A).

 

Ds, 10, 5th grade, is almost half way through LCII. Just for the heck of it, I'm considering doing First Form Latin with him next year, continuing with Second through Fourth, assuming they come out on schedule. I'm not sure he will be ready for Henle next school year.

 

I don't know about you, but I certainly am not prepared to lead my dc through Latin beyond the very basics. Since I have fairly high goals, I'm going to need to employ online classes or tutoring or both. I do want to keep up and learn along with them, but like you pointed out, with many subjects and 2 to teach and a 2 1/2 yo granddaughter to chase after, I'm just not getting it done. And my brain is full of holes that let Latin and grammar out about as fast as I can pour them in. Thank goodness I learned the math when I was a lot younger!

 

So all that long winded post to say I understand where you are. I have faith that the time and effort we put into Latin will bear fruit someday, and I wish the same for you and yours.

 

Lawana

Edited January 11, 2010 by Lawana

[at the beach]

My goal for my dd 7th grade is that she study Latin through AP Latin. I realized last year, it was too much for me to handle. I could not keep up with it. Last year, we used Latin Prep I and it's a great program if you are interested in self-learning but she was bypassing me and I could not effectively help her when she had questions. This year, I signed her up for Latin I Henle with RCA. It's going very well, and I am so glad that I decided to put her in an online class for Latin.

 

For us, it's worth the cost. I know that if she works hard, she will be able to master the material and move up in the sequence of classes online.

 

However, that doesn't mean I don't think it absolutely can't be done at home, but honestly, if you are not keeping up with it along with your child, if your child has questions, who will he turn to? I guess that's what my worry was. I am all for self-learning but there are times we need guidance from an experienced mentor. Some programs are geared for homeschoolers to learn on their own or with parents and I believe that perhaps there is some sort of support for self-learners that the programs offer. I'd look for a program that maybe has an online forum where questions can be asked at least. I believe that The Latin Road to English Grammar one of them. Latin in the Christian Trivium is another I think. There is also a new MP Latin. I don't know if any of these have online forums for users, but that's what I would look for.

 

HTH. :001_smile:

[Cedarmom]

Henle book 2 is divided into 2 parts. The back section is a grammar review. It covers the same things as Henle 1 chapter 8-end of the book. So is is not necessary to finish book one and then do all of Henle 2. We went through Henle chapter 8. For book 2 we have done the exercises and the translations (lulius Caesar's wars) at the same time. We also threw in some Lingua latina because we became a little bored of Henle. We are about half way through Henle 2. My son did a placement test and he received credit for 2 years of high school.

 

On pacing, that is hard to say. Sometimes we went faster. Other times were much slower. Sometimes we had to go back and review. Grammar would pile up and confuse him, and we would realize that we need to slow down our pace. I had some goals to what we wanted to finish. But I felt it was better to make sure we learned one concept well before we moved unto the next. Slow and steady seemed to work well for us.

[Lawana]

Henle book 2 is divided into 2 parts. The back section is a grammar review. It covers the same things as Henle 1 chapter 8-end of the book. So is is not necessary to finish book one and then do all of Henle 2. We went through Henle chapter 8. For book 2 we have done the exercises and the translations (lulius Caesar's wars) at the same time. We also threw in some Lingua latina because we became a little bored of Henle. We are about half way through Henle 2. My son did a placement test and he received credit for 2 years of high school.

 

On pacing, that is hard to say. Sometimes we went faster. Other times were much slower. Sometimes we had to go back and review. Grammar would pile up and confuse him, and we would realize that we need to slow down our pace. I had some goals to what we wanted to finish. But I felt it was better to make sure we learned one concept well before we moved unto the next. Slow and steady seemed to work well for us.

Cedarmom, did you have a Latin background, or did you learn with your child?

Lawana

[Jane in NC]

I guess I'm now questioning what I expect to get out of Latin study for my kids - do I want them to be able to read books in Latin? Do I want them to just have the mind exercise that studying Latin provides? The vocab background?

 

Hello Colleen.

 

I cannot help you with the Henle--so glad that others are doing so.

 

It has always been my goal for my son to read original works in Latin as I had done in high school. Granted, my memory of Latin had faded, but the language is so logical that I kept my head above water until some point in Oxford's Latin III book. We used the fabulous Legamus readers from Bolchazy for an introduction to Latin literature. Even with these handholders, I felt that my ability to teach Latin had reached a terminal point. I wish that I had found an online course sooner, but some of us can be quite pigheaded. Ahem. Anyway, all is well this year as my son studies AP Latin (Vergil).

 

My son loves history and wants to be a classical/medieval archaeologist. So my early goal of AP Latin aligned nicely with his eventual goals. But even if it had not, I think that a goal of reading original Latin literature is a reasonable one for those pursuing classical education. My goal for my son was not to study Latin grammatical forms for the sake of Latin grammar but to see how the language was used by profound thinkers and poets and how these works influenced later day profound thinkers and poets. I am so glad that I struggled with my son through passages by Ovid--such wit! But I am even more glad that he is now being led by someone more far more knowledgeable than myself.

 

Jane

[Lawana]

I wish that I had found an online course sooner. Anyway, all is well this year as my son studies AP Latin (Vergil).

 

Jane,

If I may enquire, through which online provider is your son taking AP Latin?

Lawana

[Jane in NC]

Jane,

If I may enquire, through which online provider is your son taking AP Latin?

Lawana

 

NC Virtual Public School. Certainly not an option for everyone on this board.

 

Jane

[Cedarmom]

Cedarmom, did you have a Latin background, or did you learn with your child?

Lawana

 

I learned Latin with him. I think overall it went well. I think he may have learned more if we had a tutor last year though, since I got to a point where his learning was past mine. We didn't do a tutor because he didn't want one, and he was progressing at a steady pace (just not as much of a challenge as a tutor or online class).

[Lawana]

NC Virtual Public School. Certainly not an option for everyone on this board.

 

Jane

 

I learned Latin with him. I think overall it went well. I think he may have learned more if we had a tutor last year though, since I got to a point where his learning was past mine. We didn't do a tutor because he didn't want one, and he was progressing at a steady pace (just not as much of a challenge as a tutor or online class).

 

Thank you both.

I'm just starting to get my feet wet with planning high school sequences, and getting more nervous all the time. I hope all my questions don't bother y'all.

 

Lawana

[Colleen in NS]

I have him write the Latin *and* English when going from Latin to English - I had in mind that it would be good for him to do "copywork" of Latin to get the feel of the words/spelling/sentence construction as already written in the book. Sounds good, but it does take up time....Part of this is that it saves *me* time - I do SO much of his other work orally with him (some math, grammar, etc.) as I tutor him through his first 1.5 or so hours of the day in various skills before giving him his independent work and assignment list. But he hates having to write Latin and English, and I'm unsure about making him do it - so I default for now to making him do it.

 

I just did some reading at the MP forums. Someone asked a similar question, and the MP rep pretty much said that yes, copying out the Latin is good for riveting it, BUT that the same benefit is derived from reading the Latin sentence aloud, slowly, with careful pronunciation. I think I may go to this. Ds is an excellent speller, so once he sees a word (even in Latin), he remembers how to spell it. He is quick to memorize the word endings, so I may just have him read the Latin aloud to me and then write down just the English translation. After I see how this goes, I may even have him read it aloud to himself, just to save me tutoring time. He does well now with doing his other memory work aloud, on his own, so this just may work - giving him more time to do his independent work and giving me more time with dd.

 

I need to read those forums more often.

 

As far as what I want dc to get out of Latin, I do have the goal for them to be able to read Latin, and not just laboriously translate sentence by sentence, but read with comprehension in Latin word order.

 

I don't know about you, but I certainly am not prepared to lead my dc through Latin beyond the very basics. Since I have fairly high goals, I'm going to need to employ online classes or tutoring or both.

 

And my brain is full of holes that let Latin and grammar out about as fast as I can pour them in. Thank goodness I learned the math when I was a lot younger!

 

The holes - oh yes!!!! That is my biggest problem! It is SO frustrating to me that I now recognize the value of teaching grammar/Latin/math/writing systematically, and since I wasn't taught how when my brain would have absorbed it quickly, I am slow now. I hate that my slowness is a handicap, esp. when I want to give it to my kids while they are still young enough (and under my control, ha ha!) to grasp concepts easily. Sure, I can learn things now, but they fall out faster.

 

So - WHY do you want your kids to be able to read Latin easily? And how did you come to that conclusion, esp. if you don't feel prepared to teach beyond the basics? What made you decide on higher goals?

 

My goal for my dd 7th grade is that she study Latin through AP Latin.

 

if you are not keeping up with it along with your child, if your child has questions, who will he turn to?

 

I'd look for a program that maybe has an online forum where questions can be asked at least.

 

How did you come to the AP Latin goal? What made you decide, too?

 

Mmmm hmmm, I understand the question of who will he turn to - I've worried about that, too. Esp. because I am pretty sure that unless something drastically changes, we probably really won't be able to afford tutoring or classes.

 

I just realized, as I combed through your post (the part about looking for a program with an online forum), that I could probably have my kids use the MP forums (later, I mean)!!! I was just reading them, and though in the past questions didn't seem to get answered, they seem to have a person answering questions more often now. Even if they get going with First to Fourth Form, they probably would still answer questions about Henle. Right? :D

 

On pacing, that is hard to say. Sometimes we went faster. Other times were much slower. Sometimes we had to go back and review. Grammar would pile up and confuse him, and we would realize that we need to slow down our pace. I had some goals to what we wanted to finish. But I felt it was better to make sure we learned one concept well before we moved unto the next. Slow and steady seemed to work well for us.

 

I think I am going to stick with going all the way through book 1 - in my MP forum reading, I read some pretty convincing reasons to do so.

 

Pacing - reading about your experience is helpful. We started the section on adjectives today (unit 2?), and realized it was review! So we breezed through that. I'm also going to pay more attention to the exercise sets that are labeled "essential" esp. if we are in a review-to-us section - maybe I could breeze through sets that aren't essential. I guess I just have to pay more attention to those details - it would probably put me more at ease. I just get panicked at times about how many *different* skill sets I have to learn enough to teach. I'm determined to do it, but I still panic. :D

 

In a way, I am glad that ds is quick to understand things. He sometimes has a better way of explaining something to me if I don't immediately understand from the book. Then I can go back to being the parent and telling him what to do next, now that I understand. :D

 

I remember reading a post by Jean in Wisc once, about learning.....it might have been Latin....along with one of her kids. She was very matter of fact about the pace - her child was forced to go slower because she had to learn it along with him, but she wouldn't let him go ahead - she wanted to make sure he "got" things, and the only way she could make sure was to make him stay at her slower pace. When I think of that, I feel a little less bad about possibly holding my kids back with my pace...

 

I also think I am still going to try to do book 1 in three years. We'll see how it goes. Someone privately pointed out to me that if it's possible to do more in middle grades, it frees up more high school time. I don't want to burn us out, but I don't think we ARE burned out...so we'll keep going (but I'll probably panic-n-post again, sorry!).

 

It has always been my goal for my son to read original works in Latin as I had done in high school.

 

...to see how the language was used by profound thinkers and poets and how these works influenced later day profound thinkers and poets.

 

Aha! This reason for your goal of reading original Latin works makes sense to me. Thank you for spelling that out for me. I knew people had the goals of reading, but didn't know why. I like this reason. I'm going to think about it some more, and if something profound strikes me, you know you'll hear from me. ;)

 

I learned Latin with him. I think overall it went well. I think he may have learned more if we had a tutor last year though, since I got to a point where his learning was past mine. We didn't do a tutor because he didn't want one, and he was progressing at a steady pace (just not as much of a challenge as a tutor or online class).

 

This is very encouraging to hear. So he has been able to progress onward...with or without you keeping up? If you don't keep up now, how do you help him when he needs help?

Edited January 12, 2010 by Colleen in NS

[at the beach]

Colleen, You asked what factored into deciding that I'd like her to get to AP Latin. It was more along the lines of my wanting her to have the opportunity to take AP Latin. I felt unsure that I could get her there or that she could get to that point herself. Doing well on the AP Latin exam would show that she has studied Latin for many years--evidence of a long commitment to the language. It takes years of preparation to get ready for AP Latin whereas some AP exams you can study intensively for a year and do well. Now, if my child decides in a few years she can't stand Latin, then obviously that's something that would have to be addressed. But right now, she loves her Latin class.

[Colleen in NS]

Doing well on the AP Latin exam would show that she has studied Latin for many years--evidence of a long commitment to the language. It takes years of preparation to get ready for AP Latin whereas some AP exams you can study intensively for a year and do well.

 

Thank you - that makes sense to me. A related question - what is the benefit to her (or anyone) if they can take an AP Latin class and do well on the AP Latin exam? Is it for college credit? Is it a sense of accomplishment for having mastered a language so well? For having all those years of thinking skills under one's belt? For something like Jane mentioned - being able to trace influences from ancient lit. to modern lit and in one language to another? (OK, several questions :D) Does going that far in Latin translate into practical everyday life somehow (I know it would provide intellectual satisfaction)?

[Cedarmom]

 

Pacing - reading about your experience is helpful. We started the section on adjectives today (unit 2?), and realized it was review! So we breezed through that. I'm also going to pay more attention to the exercise sets that are labeled "essential" esp. if we are in a review-to-us section - maybe I could breeze through sets that aren't essential. I guess I just have to pay more attention to those details - it would probably put me more at ease. I just get panicked at times about how many *different* skill sets I have to learn enough to teach. I'm determined to do it, but I still panic. :D

 

I remember reading a post by Jean in Wisc once, about learning.....it might have been Latin....along with one of her kids. She was very matter of fact about the pace - her child was forced to go slower because she had to learn it along with him, but she wouldn't let him go ahead - she wanted to make sure he "got" things, and the only way she could make sure was to make him stay at her slower pace. When I think of that, I feel a little less bad about possibly holding my kids back with my pace...

 

 

 

 

This is very encouraging to hear. So he has been able to progress onward...with or without you keeping up? If you don't keep up now, how do you help him when he needs help?

 

If I don't keep up because I am getting bogged down, then I make my son slow down with me. I don't know if that is the most reccommended way, but that is what we did. It was nice to hear that Jean in Wisconsin does it that way. It happens in classrooms too, kids have to slow down for the rest of their class. Sometimes it was good for my son to slow down. Sometimes I think he would have done better with an online class. But he knows how to read Latin, and wants to continue doing it, so I guess we're doing o.k. Sorry, I know that is not a real answer. Part of homeschooling is deciding what things to outsource and what to keep at home. My son was very happy to outsource math and science, but he really enjoyed our Latin studies together.

[forty-two]

Thank you - that makes sense to me. A related question - what is the benefit to her (or anyone) if they can take an AP Latin class and do well on the AP Latin exam? Is it for college credit? Is it a sense of accomplishment for having mastered a language so well? For having all those years of thinking skills under one's belt? For something like Jane mentioned - being able to trace influences from ancient lit. to modern lit and in one language to another? (OK, several questions :D) Does going that far in Latin translate into practical everyday life somehow (I know it would provide intellectual satisfaction)?

College credit. Sense of accomplishment. Hopefully genuine Latin reading ability. However...I will mention that there are several Latin teachers on the Latinteach list that are not fans of the AP exam. They believe there are better things to be working toward wrt advanced Latin study, and that AP Latin exam is mostly about discussing Latin *in English* instead of about *Latin*.

[at the beach]

Thank you - that makes sense to me. A related question - what is the benefit to her (or anyone) if they can take an AP Latin class and do well on the AP Latin exam? Is it for college credit? Is it a sense of accomplishment for having mastered a language so well? For having all those years of thinking skills under one's belt? For something like Jane mentioned - being able to trace influences from ancient lit. to modern lit and in one language to another? (OK, several questions :D) Does going that far in Latin translate into practical everyday life somehow (I know it would provide intellectual satisfaction)?

 

Good questions. I think mastering something and being committed enough to it to see it through is a great thing, but I think there are many ways to do this without AP tests. I regret that I feel like I am in a position where I feel like if I don't have my kids do AP if they can, they may be at a disadvantage--JMHO. As a homeschooler, I want to make sure she has outside verification of what she has done. I know ACT/SAT tests will do that, but I feel some AP's will benefit her as well. I'm not willing to forego them as long as the system is what it is AND as long as my dd enjoys what she's doing.

 

Does going this far in Latin translate to everyday life? Well, we are nowhere near that place as she's just in Latin I, but I already see my daughter working hard to master this material. She can't forget about it. She must keep at it on a consistent basis. She can't cram at the end and do well. So, yes, I think that translates to lifelong skills that will be useful to her. She is learning to budget her time, she is learning to tackle something hard and then finds success when she learns the material and sees it was not unmanageable even if it seemed to be so.

[Melanie]

This is what my 13 year old son has done so far:

 

5th grade: Latina Christiana 1

6th grade: Latina Christiana 2

7th grade: Henle Latin 1, Units 1-7

8th grade: Henle Latin 1, Units 8-14 (in progress)

 

And here is the plan for high school:

 

9th grade: Henle Latin 2

10th grade: Henle Latin 3

11th grade: Henle Latin 4

12th grade: Vergil

 

Sadly, he left me in the dust long ago and is doing Latin by himself. He's using the Mother of Divine Grace syllabus, and he just does whatever it tells him to (and sometimes more). I still lead recitations, quiz him on vocabulary, and grade his work, but I don't do any actual teaching. He's doing wonderfully on his own, but I'm sure he would benefit from a class or a tutor by book 3.

 

He is completing all the exercises (copying out the Latin), so it takes a lot of time - usually about an hour a day. I wasn't willing to let him drop any of his other subjects, so he has a full schedule. But he loves Latin and Greek and wants to major in classics, so it is worth it to him. I have seen nothing but good come out of his Latin study, so I encourage him as much as I can; I'm even still limping along in Henle 1, slogging through Unit 3 for the third time. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think the level of Latin's importance in any homeschool really depends on the people involved. My 11 year old daughter just started Henle 1. She enjoys it, but isn't nearly as enthralled as her big brother was. It's a little early to tell where her interests might lie, but I don't see a neon sign flashing, "Latin Scholar" when I look at her! So I think she'll probably spend 5th through 8th grades covering Henle 1 and 9th through 10th grades covering Henle 2, and then give Latin up for something else. I'm okay with that.

[Colleen in NS]

If I don't keep up because I am getting bogged down, then I make my son slow down with me.

 

It happens in classrooms too, kids have to slow down for the rest of their class. Sometimes it was good for my son to slow down.

 

but he really enjoyed our Latin studies together.

 

This makes me feel better. Maybe if I just stop berating myself for not having learned this before, and portray enjoyment of it to my son, the whole experience might be less stressful for me.

 

tThey believe there are better things to be working toward wrt advanced Latin study, and that AP Latin exam is mostly about discussing Latin *in English* instead of about *Latin*.

 

I guess I should refresh my mind with some reading about these better things. Memoria Press articles and such. I could use a boost up to see the forest through the trees.

 

I feel like if I don't have my kids do AP if they can, they may be at a disadvantage--JMHO. As a homeschooler, I want to make sure she has outside verification of what she has done. I know ACT/SAT tests will do that, but I feel some AP's will benefit her as well. I'm not willing to forego them as long as the system is what it is AND as long as my dd enjoys what she's doing.

 

Does going this far in Latin translate to everyday life? Well, we are nowhere near that place as she's just in Latin I, but I already see my daughter working hard to master this material. She can't forget about it. She must keep at it on a consistent basis. She can't cram at the end and do well. So, yes, I think that translates to lifelong skills that will be useful to her. She is learning to budget her time, she is learning to tackle something hard and then finds success when she learns the material and sees it was not unmanageable even if it seemed to be so.

 

Thank you for explaining the outside verification and persistence reasons. This is helpful, too.

 

And here is the plan for high school:

 

9th grade: Henle Latin 2

10th grade: Henle Latin 3

11th grade: Henle Latin 4

12th grade: Vergil

 

Sadly, he left me in the dust long ago and is doing Latin by himself. He's using the Mother of Divine Grace syllabus, and he just does whatever it tells him to (and sometimes more). I still lead recitations, quiz him on vocabulary, and grade his work, but I don't do any actual teaching. He's doing wonderfully on his own, but I'm sure he would benefit from a class or a tutor by book 3.

 

This is sort of what I was afraid of happening - that I would get so bogged down with spinning the plates in the air, that I'd have to let ds go on his own somewhere in book 1 or 2 and then who knows what would happen. Wasn't sure if that was a good idea or not. I guess it depends on his motivation - seems your son loves is study - mine is so-so about it. But I'm also starting to think that maybe my own berating of myself for not knowing Latin/grammar/math/writing skills well enough and far enough, is affecting things. Ds did say one time that I say things like that a lot. Probably if I act confident (I do act interested because I am, in many things, but I also am quick to get frustrated with myself when I don't understand something the first time) then my study (and thus, theirs) will go better. It's not bad, but my frustration with myself could be cut out.

 

How do you plan to have your son do book 2? Does MODG have a study book to go with it, or is it like MP books where you just figure out a study pattern and use that? Do you think he will have to put a lot of time in each day to do book 2 in a year?

[Melanie]

This is sort of what I was afraid of happening - that I would get so bogged down with spinning the plates in the air, that I'd have to let ds go on his own somewhere in book 1 or 2 and then who knows what would happen. Wasn't sure if that was a good idea or not. I guess it depends on his motivation - seems your son loves is study - mine is so-so about it. But I'm also starting to think that maybe my own berating of myself for not knowing Latin/grammar/math/writing skills well enough and far enough, is affecting things. Ds did say one time that I say things like that a lot. Probably if I act confident (I do act interested because I am, in many things, but I also am quick to get frustrated with myself when I don't understand something the first time) then my study (and thus, theirs) will go better. It's not bad, but my frustration with myself could be cut out.

 

It's easy for me to fall into that pattern, too - I know enough to know what I don't know, and it upsets me. But I can't let my own ignorance stand in the way of my son's education! He can read, which means he can learn, and he is responsible for learning the material set in front of him. His enjoyment of a particular subject might increase his desire to master the material, but it has no effect on his ability - he has absolutely zero interest in math, but is teaching himself algebra 2 with Saxon and is doing quite well. Meanwhile, I learn as much as I can as quickly as I can, and if it takes me two days to master a concept that he learned in two minutes, that's fine. I'm modeling perseverance.

 

How do you plan to have your son do book 2? Does MODG have a study book to go with it, or is it like MP books where you just figure out a study pattern and use that? Do you think he will have to put a lot of time in each day to do book 2 in a year?

 

Yes, MODG has a syllabus for that book. They call it Latin III. As far as I can tell, nearly half of Book 2 is review. I probably won't require him to complete every grammar exercise or copy down the Latin in the Latin to English translation exercises. I imagine it will take about the same amount of time per day - about an hour, give or take a little.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Melanie
spelling