Advanced Grade Placement, Opinions?

[Quad Shot Academy]

What do all of you think about advanced grade placement? I never saw the need for it but now I am rethinking. I was finally reading the high school section of the WTM and saw that to make a high school transcript you have to do the work in high school (makes sense, huh?). So if my son starts high school algebra in 7th grade, I can’t count it on his high school transcript. He will have to do three years of high school and college math while in grades 9-12. I think I would prefer to graduate him early and let him go on to seminary or college at age 16 and earn actual college credit for doing Calc. I and II. (Do they even do higher math in seminary? :confused:) Or take a year off to do missionary work, travel, abroad internship . . .

 

 

If we skip any grades, I would prefer it to be third or fourth. Really the only thing we would "miss" would be our chronological study of science and history. I was thinking if I decide to declare him in a higher grade, I should speed up how fast we are going through our grammar stage history and science now so that by 5th grade we are ready to start the logic stage. (He is already at least a grade ahead in all basic skills but spelling and possibly writing, but both of those are coming along very fast since we started concentrating on them two months ago.)

 

 

It is so early to be making these decisions and I don’t know if they even matter. I do have to declare to the public school system what grade he is in each year and he has to take a standardized test every odd year.

 

What do you all think, not just directly related to my situation, but in general about advanced grade placement? :bigear: Thanks!

[Laura Corin]

Personally, I do the work with my boys that fits with who they are now, and will make future decisions in the future. I like the idea of my boys being at least eighteen before they start university (unless in some kind of special programme that is designed to support younger people) so I am not labelling them ahead. You could always dual enroll in CC for maths during high school and do higher level courses there.....

 

FWIW, both my boys just took English standardised tests and placed two years ahead of their age, even though they don't follow the English national curriculum. I'm still happy designating them in their age-based grade, doing the work with them that they are ready for, and working it all out as we go along. There's so much great stuff to dwell on in our history, particularly, that I'm in no rush. That said, we are already doing two rotations of history, rather than three, just because I like to add so much in.....

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[pixelroper]

I can relate to what laurainchina has to say on this..

 

for us: for my dd I'm thinking ahead too, plan of action- watch how distant learning evolves and hopefully get college credit during hs years from home for what ever she plans on studying, I'm very optimistic about the options that will be available in the, not so distant as it sometimes seems, future. Right now there is quite a bit out there and if the child has the math to pass a community college basic skills exam, many of the classes are already on line to service their rural branches. It will be interesting to see where it all goes.

[K&Rs Mom]

What do you all think, not just directly related to my situation, but in general about advanced grade placement?

 

I have come to hate the entire grade-level system. :glare: My oldest is at different "levels" in different subjects, so how do we choose? Luckily my state doesn't require us to declare one, so the only time we need to decide is signing up for outside activities, when I usually want her with age-level peers so I use the "age minus five" plan. It's hard when people ask what grade she is in, especially relatives (strangers get a short answer because they mostly don't really care to begin with).

 

So many kids learn in spurts, I wouldn't "skip" at this age, in case he slows down later and you end up having to repeat a grade. I would work at his level, even if that means different levels for different subjects, and declare to the state as what his age-grade would be. That way he's still challenged, the test will never be too hard, and you can adjust later if you need to. I don't think it's possible to guess where he'll be 10 years from now - whether that's halfway through seminary, finishing up highschool, or a totally different track altogether. There's no reason he has to start highschool at age 14, or in his 9th year of homeschooling - you can call it highschool when you get to that level of study.

 

Don't let the 4-year cycle be your deciding factor; that's why it repeats 3 times - so they can catch anything missed before. I do think the grammar/logic difference is more important, because it's a deeper level of thinking. If he's ready for that jump at age 8, or 10, or 12 doesn't matter, just that you can adjust your schooling to fit when he is ready, kwim?

[Kissy]

In our state when a child becomes 14 they can take classes at the community college for high school and college credit but their parents have to sit in with them. At the age of 16 they can take them alone. These classes are free since they are high school and a child could go to university and start as a junior if they get the associate's degree. You might check with your local community college to see if they offer this program in your state. If they do you would want him even if he is taking a higher math to be in the grade for his age so it would match up right for that opportunity.

[Nan in Mass]

I have 20, 17, and 13yo sons. I have discovered that lots of things change as they grow. What if you find that your child is only ahead academically, not emotionally, later on? Will you say, "Well, we've changed our mind and we're not graduating you early after all because we don't think you can handle college yet?" I try really hard not to put myself in a position of having to backtrack or judge or change rules because the next child is different. They are very sensitive as teenagers and very suspicious that you don't trust them or that you don't think they are grown up or like them or whatever. It is easy to advance them later and graduate them early if they need it, allowing them to take a "gap" year and do something interesting. I'd wait until they were at least 16 go decide. Until then, I'd just do the next thing. You probably are going to want to keep doing math, science, English, a foreign language, and a social studies all the way through high school anyway, so it doesn't really matter if you do algebra early. There is plenty to learn in all those subjects beyond the ordinary senior year stuff. If you don't want to teach it yourself, you can investigate your local college or community college. Most of them are open to taking students who are past 16. Sometimes you can even get credit for those classes with your "real" college.

HTH

-Nan

[Beth in Central TX]

My middle son has an October birthday; he's very bright and read at an early age, so I just skipped Kindergarten and put him in 1st grade. It's not a problem with our homeschool because I purchase his school books based on his current level of work, rather than grade, but it has become a "issue" in the graded level classes at church for Sunday School, AWANA, etc.

 

He definitely has the academic ability to be in the 5th grade classes, but his maturity level is sometimes a little lacking, and he's a little more naive by nature than his counterparts. With the trend in public school to hold back your child if they have a spring or summer birthday and/or if they are a boy, I've found that DS#2 is almost 2 years younger than the other students in a grade level setting. So, if I had it to do over again, I would have kept him in Kindergarten (based on the ps grade level guidelines), and just give him 1st grade work. Just my $0.02 though...

[Myrtle]

I have not encountered a shortage of math topics to teach that can honestly be included in an algebra course.

 

My son will finish algebra I, the first half of seventh grade and it will take him another 9-12 months to do a rigorous proofy geometry book. So what then for high school?

 

Beginning in the ninth grade our kids will have these options for math classes: Algebra II, college geometry (Solomonovich) yes again, but it's at a much higher level more abstract and formal than a traditional Euclidean geometry book, trig, Pre-Calc (such as the old Doliciani)...from the Anneli Lax Mathematical Library Series there are mini-courses (books) available that teach Topology and Number Theory (even cryptoanalysis!) at the high school level, art of Problem Solving has a text that can be used to teach Probability. This should keep them more than busy for at least three years in high school without going off to the community college to take engineering calculus which is required course in a profession that they may not even be interested in pursuing.

[Quad Shot Academy]

Thanks for all the thoughts everyone. You all gave me quite a bit to think about! :lol:

[angela in ohio]

I am not grade-skipping them. I will give credit for one HS class in 7th and two in 8th, which is pretty standard around here. First dd is coming up on junior high. She will do algebra in 7th, but I'm not sure that will be her HS credit, as most do it in 8th grade now. Maybe. Anyway, we will do HS classes in Jr High and college classes in HS, but that is pretty common anyway. I won't need to move her grade level to do it.

[ddandgirls]

I am not grade-skipping them. I will give credit for one HS class in 7th and two in 8th, which is pretty standard around here. First dd is coming up on junior high. She will do algebra in 7th, but I'm not sure that will be her HS credit, as most do it in 8th grade now. Maybe. Anyway, we will do HS classes in Jr High and college classes in HS, but that is pretty common anyway. I won't need to move her grade level to do it.

 

 

Just a question, but if she is doing HS classes in Jr. High and college classes in HS, what will her transcript look like? Will you give a hs credit for 7th grade algebra? Will her hs years have college course titles? How will you show that she has met the required classes of Alg. 1, alg 11, english 1, english 2 etc.? If she's doing college classes in HS how is that not grade skipping or acceleration? It sounds like she will still have all of her hs credits well before 12th grade? Why not grade skip/accelerate and graduate early if taking college classes in hs anyway? We're in this position and I'm trying to figure out how this all works? Any advice would be great.

 

D-

[Quad Shot Academy]

what will her transcript look like? Will you give a hs credit for 7th grade algebra? Will her hs years have college course titles? How will you show that she has met the required classes of Alg. 1, alg 11, english 1, english 2 etc.?

 

D-

 

This is what is so confusing to me. According to TWTM, they have to actually take the class, say Geometry, in high school for it to go on their HS transcript. I have heard of earning dual credit by taking a community college course in advanced math, but if I don't want my kids doing that, then what? Frankly, our community colleges around here have become nothing more than expensive high schools. 95% of the home schooled high schoolers I know, go there. Or is TWTM wrong, can you declare high school level work done in 7th grade?

[Harriet Vane]

I wonder if you can have him take an AP or CLEP test to show that, even though he did not do the coursework in high school, he had already mastered the material?

 

I am not real familiar with the tests so do not know how workable this option is--you might check with the college board.

 

Another thought is that a well-written transcript is worth its weight in gold. I cannot imagine that any college would penalize a student for early mastery of material. Can't there be a way to show that algebra was successfully completed early? Can't his advanced level work in high school be an advantage?

[ddandgirls]

You can earn high school credit for any high school class taken in middle school. So you can earn Algebra 1 credit in 7th or 6th or whatever. As long as the work is truly high school level you can get credit. Some people suggest creating a transcript that just lists courses and grades and not the year it was completed. So for a math heading on the transcript you would just list the 4 or more math classes the student took. Many colleges do suggest that you continue to take a math through your senior year even if you have already passed the number of required credits.

 

Someone in another post mentioned looking at four year institutions as well as cc for dual enrollment. Some schools will allow you to take courses on the regular campus as a high school student. There are also many distance learning programs and online classes for the upper level hs/college level classes.

 

I just wonder how people will write the transcript if the student has all of the credits necessary by say the end of 10th or 11th grade for example, but the student didn't officially graduate yet. You would end up with a ton of credits. My dd is on track to potentially have all of her credits by the end of 10th grade, but so far we have not officially "skipped" any grades, we just started early (at 4 yo) and then accelerated through some subjects. Not sure what I should do - graduate her early or slow her down. Slowing her down however usually results in underachievement and boredom in my house. Plus, we live near several universities so my plan is that if she finishes early she will go to college, but live at home.

 

Look at Janice Campbell's website for her book "Transcripts Made Easy". She addresses earning credit early.

 

D-

[Nan in Mass]

It is pretty easy. I just put a star next to those and then made a note at the bottom saying that these courses were taken at blank college.

 

There are a few tricky bits. One is that if you have too many college credits, you may lose your freshman standing with some state schools and run into trouble with scholarship money that is meant for freshman. Some people aren't thrilled about their poor freshman having to take all senior classes instead of the easier ones at the same time they are trying to get used to living away from home. Some colleges want their all their students to take their version of basic calculus or writing so they know they won't have gaps. Many colleges won't accept CC credits, so you can't count on those transfering. (This doesn't bother us at all - we're counting our CC classes as high school classes, not trying to get them transfered.) The only people who have to worry about counting middle school classes are the ones who want to stop studying something before the end of high school. Obviously, if a high school transcript begins with pre-calculus, the college will assume that the student took algebra previously. The same if it begins with Latin 3 in 9th grade. Some colleges want to see RECENT math and languages. This means that if you stop math classes after taking pre-calc in 9th grade, the college may object to the long gap. The same with foreign languages. Classes that are only a year long, like government or geography are going to be hard to list, too, if you list by year. Colleges are going to be doubtful that the student actually did them at the high school level if they are listed as being done in 7th grade. It might be a good idea to leave these courses for later in high school so you don't run into this problem.

HTH

-Nan

[HFClassicalAcademy]

Speaking with experience with self and friends. I would definitely skip a grade if any of my kids excelled in all subject areas. I skipped a grade and never regretted it, even though I was always the youngest. I also have friends who went off to college at 16 (4 friends to be exact!) and they all loved that they were able to do that. As a matter of fact, my niece will be graduating a whole year early from PS as well.

 

In the great scheme of things, I suppose it doesn't matter how fast you finish, since we will all finish eventually. But I do think it matters when you choose certain careers (MD's, JD's) that require lots of school and training. I might be in the minority here, but skipping a grade can give you a slight advantage over being able to accomplish a little more. More travel, work, volunteering, etc.

 

In the end, I think it depends on the child and maturity level...and the parents. Ultimately only you will know what will be best! I just wanted to give another perspective!

 

Liz

http://hfclassicalacademy.blogspot.com/