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Stats before geometry/precalc/calc??


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Why not stats earlier on??

 

I am toying with Stats for my dd13 who's wrapping up algebra -- for her to do this spring (7th gr) and into next year (8th).

 

I'm in no rush for Geometry, PreCalc, Calc. . . and I thought Stats is really easy compared to calculus. . . so why not do it now, then go back to the geo/precalc/calc sequence in high school?

 

Personally, I found Stats in college (and even in grad school) ridiculously simple. I got As both times (college and grad) and those were the two easiest classes I took in undergrad and grad. . . in fact, I never went to class except to take exams. . . I mean Calculus, physics, etc wasn't particularly hard but required a good bit of work. . . whereas Stats was pretty much "plug and chug" (but still provides you a lot of useful knowledge for real life, science, etc.) So, I definitely would like dd to get a stats class at some point, so why not now?

 

DD has worked hard in Alg and does just great but I'd like to have her do sth easier (but still valuable) for a few months or a year before going to a challenging geometry class.

 

Alternatively, I'm considering Art of Problem Solving's Counting and Probability book (just the book, dones pretty slowly to give dd that break I am wanting for her).

 

Thoughts?

 

TIA!

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Stats early on is no problem. I taught box and whisker plots (which involve calculating the interquartile range, median, and identifying outliers) to my sixth grade class this fall. :) Most modern math texts have stats concepts embedded for students all the way to kindergarten.

 

Of course, there is more to stats than elementary statistics (grin) but it is certainly accessible to a student who can accomplish basic algebraic ideas. The real challenge I see in my very-young students are with ideas that they have no context for--things involving interest rates or unit costs or anything that expects them to deal with money regularly. Not subtraction problems guised as money problems, but really understanding profit and cost relationships. Taxes! Oh, they don't get taxes. LOL. Who can blame 'em?

 

Best,

 

Lori

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Why not stats earlier on??

 

I am toying with Stats for my dd13 who's wrapping up algebra -- for her to do this spring (7th gr) and into next year (8th).

 

Our sequence has been Algebra 1, Statistics (AP-approved syllabus, although I doubt I'll claim it on the transcript unless he eventually takes the exam), Geometry, and then next year we're planning on AoPS -- Counting and Probability and Number Theory.

 

For Statistics, we used the Annenberg Course "Against All Odds" with the text, the student guide, the SAS manual, and the TI-83 manual. Combining the stuff he did with SAS and the TI, and other stuff with Lego League, Scratch and Python, I think I could have thrown in a half credit for "Introductory Computer Programming" but I expect it won't make it to the transcript either! :)

 

The one major topic you need to hit for Statistics that probably won't have been in Algebra 1 is Logarithms. When you get to linear regression, you can apply it to exponential data if you do a logarithmic transformation first... but you'll have to know what that is! Also, I'd definitely make sure she's really solid on coordinate graphing. There's a huge amount of graphing in statistics, and it would be a terrible time to try to get up to speed. There's also a Counting and Probability topic that's definitely worth hitting before you find it in stats (although I would bet no one does...) -- the Binomial Theorem. I found it much (MUCH) easier to explain binomial probabilities and binomial distributions when I knew that DS already knew about five-people-sitting-in-five-chairs problems and how that related to all the other things that go by the name "binomial". It's not complicated, but it's a topic that frequently gets short shrift (or really thin explanations). And one of my pet peeves. :)

 

I think if it were me, I'd go with Counting and Probability first, then Stats. I didn't of course, and I can't say I regret our approach... but if I were planning it, I think that's what I'd do. Since you have a half year, maybe you could do the C&P in the spring and the Statistics for all of next year?

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I suppose it depends on how far you go in Stats.

 

I did Probability and Statistics (as a one semester college course) after multi integral calculus and differential equations. There is no way I could have done that course after Algebra I. I found calculus and differential equations to be infinitely easier than Probability and Statistics.

 

I'll have to look up the AP Stats course and compare it to what I did (since ds is thinking about taking it next semester.)

 

AoPS Counting and Probability, OTOH, looks like a lot more fun. AoPS also recommends the Number Theory book after Algebra I, if C & P doesn't take the whole year.

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I suppose it depends on how far you go in Stats.

 

I did Probability and Statistics (as a one semester college course) after multi integral calculus and differential equations. There is no way I could have done that course after Algebra I. I found calculus and differential equations to be infinitely easier than Probability and Statistics.

 

I'll have to look up the AP Stats course and compare it to what I did (since ds is thinking about taking it next semester.)

 

AoPS Counting and Probability, OTOH, looks like a lot more fun. AoPS also recommends the Number Theory book after Algebra I, if C & P doesn't take the whole year.

There is a whole lot of statistics that definitely requires calculus, but AP stats is like the "intro level" college course that doesn't. They just gloss over the area-under-the-curve problems using tables.

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There is a whole lot of statistics that definitely requires calculus, but AP stats is like the "intro level" college course that doesn't. They just gloss over the area-under-the-curve problems using tables.

 

Wow. So would AP Stats even be the equivalent of Stats in college? That was the one and only Stats course I took (and he's applied at the same school and it's still required). Do most colleges give credit for it? I'm wondering if it's worth doing at all? Or is it considered an "easy" AP test (as in, a good way to get another 5 on your applications)?

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Wow. So would AP Stats even be the equivalent of Stats in college? That was the one and only Stats course I took (and he's applied at the same school and it's still required). Do most colleges give credit for it? I'm wondering if it's worth doing at all? Or is it considered an "easy" AP test (as in, a good way to get another 5 on your applications)?

And I don't know about the credit part -- not there yet. But there are college stats classes that don't require calculus. Some are freshman level, taught by grad students, and IMO not worth a whole heck of a lot... but definitely for credit.

 

Just a quick look at the UNC site shows seven undergrad courses (including one that I'd probably classify with my little rant here... LOL) and only two (the last two) that require calculus.

 

You can really do quite a lot with just algebra. Or just algebra and some handy tables in the appendix. Given the deplorable grasp that the average person has of even basic statistics, I'd rather focus on the algebra-level work early and thoroughly, and save the calculus stats for specialists. The reason we threw it in right after Algebra 1 was so DS would have it in his "toolbox" for science. I know it's a quirk of mine, but I can not teach any kind of useful science without statistics.

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Thank you all for brainstorming with me!!

 

I think AoPS counting and probability this spring would be perfect. . . then next year, either number theory; then (non calculus) stats OR a full year of geometry. . . depending on how much DD loves AoPS.

 

My main purpose in having a stats class is for general knowledge -- understanding stats in data (scientific or popular/political). For this purpose, non-calculus stats would be just fine. That's what I'm looking for for now. If dd needs another year of math on her transcript in high school after calculus, then an advanced stats could be taken at that time. . .

 

Thanks so much!!!!!!!!! My thinking is much clearer after thinking through your feedback!

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