cseitter Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Hi High Schoolers! I asked this on the k-8th board and it was recommended that I post here as well... Can anyone give me an idea what to do? Someone said I need a mastery math approach instead of incremental. Help?! This is my first year homeschooling and like all first years (or so I have heard) one of our curriculum choices isn't working out. We are using Saxon Math 87 with pre algebra and my son is not retaining it at all. He says he doesn't like the program and that he doesn't understand it. He is not a mathmatician at all. I do have the dive cds and those are not helping.. What are some other suggestions for his math? But I am not a mathmatician either so I can't teach him his math..... He was in PS up until this year. He was making A's in PS math so I am kinda trying to figure out what is going on. What he really gets hung up on in this book is the geometry. The equations and such he seems to be getting. He did take the placement and he placed squarely in the 87 book so I am not sure what to do from here. Change curriculum or stay and work through it? We do have the DIVE cds and he uses them..... He does well with the Lesson practice and then has issues in the mixed practice.. He will to a problem that was introduced in Lesson 7 (for example) and he is in Lesson 37. He says he doesn't know how to do it.... I want to pull my hair out! My DH says that he really needs help being seeing the big picture. He can't take a shape and see the sides are all the same and figure out the area. Does that make sense? Thank you in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in MD Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I used Math U See up through the pre-Algebra level. I believe they have a diagnostic here: http://www.mathusee.com/placement.html I'm not personally familiar with switching into Math U See at higher levels, but I really liked the way the program explained the WHYS of math...it really helped us get a firm foundation. We did switch out of Math U See for Algebra and beyond, but at that time, Math U See did not go as far in high school math as it does now. You might also want to look at Teaching Text Books...I've read a lot of posts about families who found it to be quite helpful as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jann in TX Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 With Saxon a tiny piece of a concept is introduced one day--a FEW similar practice problems worked then 2/3 or more of the problem set is 'review'. Saxon teaches WITHIN the review. If you are on lesson 47 and there is a problem with the lesson number 7 next to it that only means that the main concept in lesson 7 was touched on in that problem--the problem has most likely 'evolved' into something that looks totally different--because the student has learned more 'skills' by lesson 47... It works for some students BUT NOT FOR ALL--even with the best teacher/video program. Lial Basic College Math covers what Saxon 87 does but in a more traditional format. I've switched many students over to Lial from Saxon--it was like a breath of fresh air! It is inexpensive too--look for the 6th, 7th or 8th editions --Basic College Math by Margaret Lial. I prefer the paperback text as the print is a much nicer size and most of the text can be used as a workbook. I always reinforce the cover with self-laminating sheets. After BCM I move the students on to Lial's Introductory Algebra (Algebra 1) followed by a Geometry program of their choice (Lial's is OK--but there are better Geometry courses out there). Intermediate Algebra is Algebra 2. The Lial texts were created for community college students--so ALL of the teaching is in the student text. It was also designed on a 'block schedule' so each lesson takes about 2 days to work (only the odds). After each chapter test there is a cumulative review over previous chapters. All of the needed answers are in the student text odds to homework... (all test and cumulative review and chapter review answers are there too). Look for 7th or 8th editions of the paperback series. I used the Lial series with my own girls--and I use it in the online math classes that I teach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avdelp Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I agree with Jann; Lial's is great (and inexpensive)! We switched from Saxon 87 to Lial's Basic College Mathematics and it was SUCH a relief! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cseitter Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 With Saxon a tiny piece of a concept is introduced one day--a FEW similar practice problems worked then 2/3 or more of the problem set is 'review'. Saxon teaches WITHIN the review. If you are on lesson 47 and there is a problem with the lesson number 7 next to it that only means that the main concept in lesson 7 was touched on in that problem--the problem has most likely 'evolved' into something that looks totally different--because the student has learned more 'skills' by lesson 47... It works for some students BUT NOT FOR ALL--even with the best teacher/video program. Lial Basic College Math covers what Saxon 87 does but in a more traditional format. I've switched many students over to Lial from Saxon--it was like a breath of fresh air! It is inexpensive too--look for the 6th, 7th or 8th editions --Basic College Math by Margaret Lial. I prefer the paperback text as the print is a much nicer size and most of the text can be used as a workbook. I always reinforce the cover with self-laminating sheets. After BCM I move the students on to Lial's Introductory Algebra (Algebra 1) followed by a Geometry program of their choice (Lial's is OK--but there are better Geometry courses out there). Intermediate Algebra is Algebra 2. The Lial texts were created for community college students--so ALL of the teaching is in the student text. It was also designed on a 'block schedule' so each lesson takes about 2 days to work (only the odds). After each chapter test there is a cumulative review over previous chapters. All of the needed answers are in the student text odds to homework... (all test and cumulative review and chapter review answers are there too). Look for 7th or 8th editions of the paperback series. I used the Lial series with my own girls--and I use it in the online math classes that I teach. I see that there is a Pre-algebra program by Lial. Should I go to that one or the Basic College Math? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cseitter Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 With Saxon a tiny piece of a concept is introduced one day--a FEW similar practice problems worked then 2/3 or more of the problem set is 'review'. Saxon teaches WITHIN the review. If you are on lesson 47 and there is a problem with the lesson number 7 next to it that only means that the main concept in lesson 7 was touched on in that problem--the problem has most likely 'evolved' into something that looks totally different--because the student has learned more 'skills' by lesson 47... It works for some students BUT NOT FOR ALL--even with the best teacher/video program. Lial Basic College Math covers what Saxon 87 does but in a more traditional format. I've switched many students over to Lial from Saxon--it was like a breath of fresh air! It is inexpensive too--look for the 6th, 7th or 8th editions --Basic College Math by Margaret Lial. I prefer the paperback text as the print is a much nicer size and most of the text can be used as a workbook. I always reinforce the cover with self-laminating sheets. After BCM I move the students on to Lial's Introductory Algebra (Algebra 1) followed by a Geometry program of their choice (Lial's is OK--but there are better Geometry courses out there). Intermediate Algebra is Algebra 2. The Lial texts were created for community college students--so ALL of the teaching is in the student text. It was also designed on a 'block schedule' so each lesson takes about 2 days to work (only the odds). After each chapter test there is a cumulative review over previous chapters. All of the needed answers are in the student text odds to homework... (all test and cumulative review and chapter review answers are there too). Look for 7th or 8th editions of the paperback series. I used the Lial series with my own girls--and I use it in the online math classes that I teach. I see that there is a Pre-Algebra text by Lial. Should I use that or the Basic College Math? Do they have a website that I could go to? When I googled it I only see the books on sale from Amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 From what I understand, the difference between Lial's Basic College Mathematics and Lial's Pre-algebra is that BCM starts from the very beginning and covers everything to make sure that there are no holes in understanding. I'm using BCM with my 6th grader this year. I actually have her working through the Key to series and BCM at the same time. That ensures that she hits a lot of different skills each week (so she doesn't forget them) and also continues to progress. I expect that it will take her 2 years to work through Key to Fractions, Decimals, Percents, and Algebra along with BCM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesa Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I am looking at Thinkwell for myself. I'd like to brush up on my math before my son reaches those levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jann in TX Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 BCM is a Pre-Algebra leve text. It just covers the topics more 'fully'--when it introduces the unit on fractions it gives a 'brief' overview of what a fraction is--then in gently goes into the Pre-Algebra fraction topics. The Pre-Algebra text just assumes full prior knowledge and jumps in... for many students seeing the WHOLE concept really helps cement the foundation. BCM is also a more 'popular' text so it is easier to find used in good (not written in) condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cseitter Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 Jann, Are these videos ok to use with BCM or should I teach him myself. I am not personally a strong math person (more of english lit) but my husband is strong in math and science. What do you think? http://www.pearsonhighered.com/educa...321607829.page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jann in TX Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 The student book has ALL of the teaching before the homework--just work through each example and check understanding with the practice problems (from the margin) as you go. For longer lessons I read/work through the first 2 examples then assign the corresponding problems from the homework. Then work the next 1-2 examples... this breaks up long lessons into smaller chunks when needed. The student text has the DVT numbers on the back... Again I don't like to park students in front of a video--especially at this level... usually they can read through the lesson by themselves...my oldest has learning differences and she was able to use this program fairly independently (a bummer for a mom like me who loves to teach math!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cseitter Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 I bought the book on amazon for $4 (which rocks!) it is the 7th edition. Thats all I need right? I don't need to study skills book or anything? What should I do to find out his place in the book? Give him the tests in the book and when he misses more than a certain amount start there or have him start at the beginning of the book regardless? Should I purchase anything else to supplement? And Jann....just out of curiousity, which geometry curriculum do you suggest? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jann in TX Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 The student text is all that you really need--7th edition is great. Have your son work the CHAPTER REVIEWS--this will let you know if he needs to go back and re-work a section--or the whole chapter. The first 1-2 chapters are pretty basic--I tend to start many students in chapter 3 or so. The last few word problems in each section are HARD. I usually end up working through them with the student (or just skipping them). E-mail or pm me if you find you have other questions. --- This year I'm using Jacobs 3rd edition with my online Geometry classes. It is working for about HALF of the students--the others really could have used a more traditional text. Next year I'm switiching to either the 1991-1992 Holt Geometry by Nichols (my long time favorite--easy to teach from AND student friendly, still easy/cheap to find since it was the most popular program when it was published)--or the 2007 Holt by Dr Berger (he also makes Thinkwell videos). The 2007 Holt has TONS of wiggle room for teachers--not sure if I would recommend it for a lone-homeschooler or for independent study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I am a fan of Math Relief for Algebra I and II, and really you shouldn't need pre-algebra beforehand. There's a sample video here: http://www.mathrelief.com/ Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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