Writing Road to Reading v. Phonics Road to Reading

[CarrieF]

Do any of you fellow-homeschoolers have experience with either The Writing Road to Reading OR The Phonics Road to Reading/Spelling? I have a friend who swears by WRTR, but my understanding is that it is fairly teacher intensive (lots of prep. time?). I don't really know anything about PRTR/S, but sort of stumbled upon it in my research of WRTR. Any opinions, advice, etc. would be greatly appreciated! Background: this is for my 6 yo son who is what I would call a beginning reader. We have been using My Father's World 1st grade curriculum and he is doing well, but I think he may need more practice/something a bit more thorough.

Thank you!

Carrie:001_huh:

Edited December 16, 2009 by CarrieF

[Dinsfamily]

There have been a lot of threads recently about WRTR/SWR/and PR. You could do a search with any of those and come up with a lot of reading. If I remember right, there are some really good comparisons. I've only used SWR (another offshoot of WRTR) so I can't answer your question directly. I'd do the search right now, but I only have a few minutes. Happy hunting.

[Joy at Home]

I am using Phonics Road Level 2 right now with my dd8, and plan on starting Level 1 next year for dd5 who will be in first grade then. I really love it. There are been some great posts recently on Phonics Road. Here are some:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140192

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139545

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139230

 

and this post, in which Tina details very clearly why she loves the program (thanks Tina!):

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120985

 

I love Phonics Road because it is an all inclusive language arts program. For some that may prefer to pull together a different writing/lit analysis program, I could see where TWRTR might work best.

 

Blessings,

Lisa

[CarrieF]

Sorry, but what are SWR and PR?!

Thanks!

Carrie

[CarrieF]

Oh, and thank you VERY much for the links to the threads - very helpful and I will continue researching!

Carrie

[mommyrooch]

Sorry, but what are SWR and PR?!

Thanks!

Carrie

 

SWR - Spell to Write and Read

 

PR - Phonics Road to Reading

[Ellie]

The Spalding Method (WRTR is the manual for Spalding) is certainly not more time-consuming than SWR or Phonics Road. I prefer Spalding; it has over 50 years of a proven track record, and I find it easy to use (although it is tricky to teach multiple levels simultaneously). However, children learn to read and spell with all of them, so it's really your preference.

[PeterPan]

Well you're gonna think this is nuts, but I have owned/used WRTR (5th edition), SWR, PR3, and... I pretty much think they're all good. You should also add AAS to your consideration for programs of that type. They cover about the same things, but they differ in what the programs give you, how much help, etc. SWR has everything for one price, one book, all the levels, all the info, lots of enrichments, options for drill, etc.. PR has the videos and does your log book for you, making it rather open and go, but the LA package isn't going to fit all kids. It also contains NO extra practice, drill, games, enrichment activities. But when open and go or video-ease outweigh everything else, it can be a great option! Remember you can get a sample dvd to see if you like it. Definitely get that sample and watch it first! WRTR is probably at your local library. It's barebones, no frills, but has the conceptual content and the word lists. Actually, the Spalding Foundation now has daily lesson plans (remember WRTR itself is meant for teachers, so it's totally barebones, just the theory and a wordlist). I bought WRTR, studied it, and went to SWR when I realized I wouldn't have a clue what to do day-to-day and wanted those helps! But WRTR can be good if your pricepoint is low ($17 or less, one book, all your kids) and you feel comfortable or prefer to decide your own path. AAS seems to do the best job of spelling everything out (haha) with daily lessons, using manipulatives, etc. High pricepoint, but you're seeing how an experienced teacher applies the principles of WRTR/SWR in tutoring one-on-one, etc. Can't beat that!

 

This is just me, but when I read your post I wondered if you really have thought about what you want? He's only 6! We did SWR, learned to read that way, and it worked fabulously. BUT it was a lot of writing, a lot of stress, a lot of leaving me feeling guilt-tripped. I'm just not sure I'll use it that way with my next one. I didn't LOVE phonics road, but it didn't fit us just right. I bought it when I was very stressed, very burntout, and wanted a break from SWR. But it's fine, has great word lists, and is very well done. If you look at the samples and are drawn to it, I think you'll be fine. One thing it does that SWR doesn't is tell you exactly what you need to do and how much is ENOUGH.

 

So if that's middle of the road, it's because really I think ANY of those programs are great for the right kid. If you like the samples, you'll probaby like it. Think about what they bring to the table and what you need most. Are you thinking this 6 yo has some learning issues? Have you looked at AAS? Remember PR is doing nothing special to reach those. It has no hands-on component, no kinesthetic activities, etc. Either SWR or AAS would be easier for that.

[Homeschooling6]

Well you're gonna think this is nuts, but I have owned/used WRTR (5th edition), SWR, PR3, and....

 

Same here :lol: WRTR is on it's way, I just started using SWR with my two oldest and my two middle students are using PR. Did I mention I owned the first four levels of AAS (don't have them anymore though)

 

This is my first year using PR. I am using level one with a 8 & 9 year old boys. PR at least level one does have some games like Bingo and you have the students phonogram cards and we play games with those. You also use the student phonogram cards to practice spelling sometimes. There are even lines so when you use the student cards you can add the markings. I have watched the dvds up to lesson 15 (we are on lesson 15). I noticed that she doesn't remind you to play these games but they are there. Mrs. Beers does remind you to review your phonograms.

As for learning; my eight & nine year old boys can spell better than my 6th grade son and are learning to read. So far all my boys have been late readers. My 8 & 9 yr. db when we started PR could read cvc words and cvcc words but are doing better now that they have been using PR. They don't have to sound out every wore anymore. I plan to use PR2 with them next year.

 

The dvds for PR really helps you to see how you teach it. At first I thought this would not work for me because I prefer a written TM that is some-what scripted. Now I love the dvds. I get my TM watch a months worth of lessons, take notes and I'm ready to go.

 

I have only owned SWR for three weeks, so I am still learning. What I do like about it, is SWR goes deeper in explaining the method. I learned about finger spelling and now use that with PR:D I quiz them immediately after a lesson and have purchased the 'Spelling Bank' from SWR to use along with PR with my boys.

 

While teaching SWR rules I do notice that I'll end up singing one of the jingles from PR.

 

Phonics Road is a bit expensive, but you get everything you need to start. From the teacher dvd right down to the pencils.

 

I didn't go into too much detail about SWR because I see your asking about WRTR & PR.

 

Blessings,

Edited December 17, 2009 by Homeschooling6

[FairProspects]

Ok, so now I'm doubting myself. Does PR teach more words or material than AAS? Or are they about the same in terms of words/rules? I was thinking of jumping ship to PR, but writing is such a struggle for ds and AAS is going so well, I'm wondering if I should bother if things aren't broke, so to speak.

[Homeschooling6]

Ok, so now I'm doubting myself. Does PR teach more words or material than AAS? Or are they about the same in terms of words/rules? I was thinking of jumping ship to PR, but writing is such a struggle for ds and AAS is going so well, I'm wondering if I should bother if things aren't broke, so to speak.

 

I'm not using AAS but thought I would give the thread a bump for you :)

 

I'm still not sure why you would like to switch.

 

Is it mainly the writing in PR the reason you are discouraged to switch?

[PeterPan]

Ok, so now I'm doubting myself. Does PR teach more words or material than AAS? Or are they about the same in terms of words/rules? I was thinking of jumping ship to PR, but writing is such a struggle for ds and AAS is going so well, I'm wondering if I should bother if things aren't broke, so to speak.

 

I don't know what's prompting you to want to change, but you're nuts to change something that is WORKING. You change when something ISN'T working.

[FairProspects]

I don't know what's prompting you to want to change, but you're nuts to change something that is WORKING. You change when something ISN'T working.

 

That's why I'm wondering how different the programs are. Would ds learn to spell more words with PR than with AAS or are they roughly equivalent?

 

I was wanting to switch because I thought ds would learn to read more easily by learning to spell than through just blending/sounding out, which has been true so far, but adding AAS has sort of achieved that purpose.

[Homeschooling6]

That's why I'm wondering how different the programs are. Would ds learn to spell more words with PR than with AAS or are they roughly equivalent?

 

I was wanting to switch because I thought ds would learn to read more easily by learning to spell than through just blending/sounding out, which has been true so far, but adding AAS has sort of achieved that purpose.

 

I get it now, why you are thinking of switching;) It's valid:D

 

Like SWR says, spell your way into reading. It makes so much sense to me. Wish I would of kept with it from the start.

 

I would say that either WRTR, SWR & PR would fit the bill, regarding teaching your dc to read. PR doesn't do blends (bl, fl etc.)

 

PR does have writing but in the first level it's not overwhelming. They are writing only words and starting with lesson 15 they read short stories and illustrate them. We will start the readers after CHRISTmas break. There is composition pages that are marked 'My Sentences" but I haven't got that far yet, so I'm not sure when they start using them. Hmmm....makes me want to find out now. I'll have to find out and comment later. Maybe Tina will see this thread and chime in.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Homeschooling6

[PeterPan]

I taught my dd to read with SWR, spelling her into reading, and didn't use a sound-it-out program at all. She reads fabulously well, has mediocre handwriting, is an average to poor speller (compared to everything else she does), and HATES writing. In other words, while I'm very happy with the way it turned out for us with learning to read, the one thing I WON'T do again is force so much writing in K5. Lesson learned. PR1 is meant for 1st grade. What does Beers say to do for learning to read?? Ok, she's biased. Anyone will say use a 1st grade program at half pace, because they're trying to sell. Same deal with AAS. When it came out, I thought the general concensus was it wasn't meant for teaching reading, just spelling. SWR actually tries to teach reading through spelling and has activities appropriate to it. We just did too much writing at that age. Disconnect the writing from the spelling.

 

The other thing to watch for in doing a more advanced program with a young dc is that you get into content they don't CARE about. My dd in 1st grade was spelling, for SWR and its lists, all sorts of words she didn't care about. They might be high frequency, but they were high frequency for ADULTS, not kids! Maybe somebody else's kid is fine with that, but mine wasn't. So the question of one covering more words than another really isn't the right question to ask. It's also moot because understanding the CONCEPTS leads to them applying the words to unfamiliar words. You don't teach every word, mercy, lol. You teach the rules, the phonograms, and the process, and the dc naturally extrapolates that to unknown words. It's why you can have a dc test far beyond where they've been taught in the grade-leveled lists of SWR, because they are applying the principles. It's why you can teach two students of different levels together in one set of words, because they bring their own level of understanding to the process and ability to apply and go farther. You're not trying to teach all the words of english, just the principles and the foundational words. And if I could say, the PR words are not necessarily all foundational words. They're more interesting, and the PR lists tend to spend longer at a particular level of spelling difficulty, giving more practice at applying the rules and phonograms. But not every kid needs that. When we tried PR3 years ago, my dd had never been "taught" those words but flew through the lists because she could apply what she had been taught. SWR has less words, but it still works just fine.

 

I personally think the ideal is to take the rules and phonograms and learn them well enough yourself that you can apply them to ANY program. Then doors open up to you. Take your OPGTR and go through it using the things you've learned in AAS. Before reading new words and patterns in OPGTR, you could dictate them or spell them with your manipulatives. You could take a spelling program that doesn't even use phonograms or phonics and bring it in, something like the Spelling Plus materials. (not ideal for K5, btw, lol) You can carry the rules over to dictation and ditch spelling as a subject entirely. And in all probably, with my new ds I'll probably teach him to read by going through the first how many lists in SWR, then switch over to just dictation and applying the phonograms and rules. We'll see, but that's what I'm thinking. One way we like using SWR is to dictate the sentences from the Wise Guide, totally skipping the normal SWR methods.

 

I was being really blunt up there about my dd's skills. None of that is for lack of teaching, believe you me. In fact, I was just chatting about it with someone else who said her dd is the same way but labelled dyslexic. I know nothing about dyslexia and my dd reads fine. The point is: 1) you CANNOT push development. They will read when they are ready, spell when they are ready. Teach gently and consistently. If you think there's a problem, get therapy. But otherwise, be patient. It will probably happy when you least expect it. and 2) trying overhard can backfire. If you have them write too much, push too hard, whatever, I think you won't like the results. Your dc is young. Mine has a late spring birthday, so she was 5 at this time of year. She didn't start really reading till February of K5, and when she did she took off with books! Now she reads a book a night and more during the day. She's a SERIOUSLY fast, amazingly good reader. I remember fretting when she was in K5, thinking I was doing something wrong. It's not something you do to them and it's not something you force. You just teach and all of a sudden it clicks and they take off. Go enjoy the holidays. Write emails and notes. Pretty soon your kid will be reading them when you wish he wouldn't. :)

[Homeschooling6]

Lesson learned. PR1 is meant for 1st grade. What does Beers say to do for learning to read?? Ok, she's biased. Anyone will say use a 1st grade program at half pace, because they're trying to sell. Same deal with AAS. When it came out, I thought the general concensus was it wasn't meant for teaching reading, just spelling. SWR actually tries to teach reading through spelling and has activities appropriate to it. We just did too much writing at that age. Disconnect the writing from the spelling.

 

:)

 

I believe FairProspects said she would use PR next year when dc is 6yrs. old. Regarding PR I don't see level 1 having too much writing. My dc only write the the spelling words. Although I am using it with older dc, but I can see my 6yr. old being okay with the writing required in level one. I would not start my 5yr. old because he is way too immature. I know he is not ready.

 

I agree that you shouldn't force dc into writing too early. I don't see any benefits with forcing children to do things before they are ready.

 

I do understand what your are saying about pushing a child to hard. I know with my first I did in some areas too.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Homeschooling6

[FairProspects]

I believe FairProspects said she would use PR next year when dc is 6yrs. old. Regarding PR I don't see level 1 having too much writing. My dc only write the the spelling words. Although I am using it with older dc, but I can see my 6yr. old being okay with the writing required in level one. I would not start my 5yr. old because he is way too immature. I know he is not ready.

 

I agree that you shouldn't force dc into writing too early. I don't see any benefits with forcing children to do things before they are ready.

 

I do understand what your are saying about pushing a child to hard. I know with my first I did in some areas too.

 

What she said :). I was thinking of using it next year for 1st grade.

 

Mostly, I'm just trying to compare the AAS and PR programs. Ds is actually in lots of therapy, both for significant vision problems and fine motor delays. That's why I'm concerned about connecting the writing to reading. His writing is waay behind, and that's okay, we're working on it with an OT.

 

OhElizabeth, I actually have been combining the AAS with the OPG and that (along with huge strides in vision therapy according to the doc) have really clicked for ds in the last few weeks or so. I'm not so much concerned about him "taking off" in reading as much as I am just trying to figure out the best techniques to use in teaching him since he has (identified) learning delays, particularly visually. One suggestion was to look at spelling to read instead of traditional programs because ds has very strong auditory processing skills, and once he hears the word he can spell and read it, while his eyes jumping around the page make it very hard for him to blend and sound out the traditional way (which is our challenge for VT).

 

The concept of SWR not being scripted totally freaks me out, so I thought I would look for a similar program that teaches reading through spelling but with more parent direction. I love AAS, but everyone tells me it can't be used to teach reading, so I'm wondering if I need something more like PR or if I can carry over enough techniques to teach reading independently of a program. I may be thinking aloud to myself here....:D

 

Anyway, thanks for the input, I think we are on the same page and this is really more of a philosophical discussion for me than any push for a particular program.

[Homeschooling6]

The concept of SWR not being scripted totally freaks me out, so I thought I would look for a similar program that teaches reading through spelling but with more parent direction. I love AAS, but everyone tells me it can't be used to teach reading, so I'm wondering if I need something more like PR or if I can carry over enough techniques to teach reading independently of a program. I may be thinking aloud to myself here....:D

 

Anyway, thanks for the input, I think we are on the same page and this is really more of a philosophical discussion for me than any push for a particular program.

 

I hear you regarding SWR freaking you out because it's not scripted. I love when programs tell me exactly what to say:D This is why I went with PR. It's not scripted but you can see Mrs. Beers teach it.

 

I just started SWR with my two older dc and it not being scripted does make it a little bit harder for me but I think as I continue it won't be so bad. The Wise Guide, although not scripted, prompts a little. For instance with the word 'late' the WG will say "a says A because of the e"

I have stumbled during a lesson here & there.

 

Between the two PR seems more streamlined. It may be because I have been using it for 15 weeks now. SWR does takes me longer but I have only used it for a few weeks:leaving:.

 

It's so hard to compare and decide when you can't see and look through the material.

 

I can see why you are concerned regarding connecting the writing to reading. I have no experiance there. Currently my five year can't hold a pencil right. We are working more this year with cutting, pasting, tracing and so forth using 'Big Skill for Little Hands'. I'm not sure where he'll be next year when we start him with SWR.

[monalisa]

I haven't read all the other posts in complete detail but...

 

I am using AAS and OPGTR right now, and contemplating switching to WRTR. I have my daughter writing the AAS words in a notebook (She hates the AAS tiles). We are actually using WRTR phonogram cards (actually, they are Riggs, which are slightly different with some of the rules on the cards).

 

The question about what AAS covers...it covers the entire Ayres list that WRTR does, and all the same rules. However, it does it in a different order and different approach. It doesn't having you writing a notebook and learning to mark words. It moves slower than WRTR.

 

For what its worth, I ordered the Spalding 1st Grade Teachers guide and sent it right back; it is really written for a classroom (and it is expensive - $70) and unless you plan to use all the Spalding LA (which I do not) it is not worth it. I do recommend the Spelling DVD that they have though -- you can see how to teach spelling in action (Though its in a classroom). The 5th Ed. WRTR is really all you need (and you can read some guidance on Christine Miller's CLassical Christian Homeschooling under Orthography for how to use it too.). I also got a copy of Mari McAlister's Nuts & Bolts to the WRTR from Adoremus books for about $11. Its a homeschool mom's version of how to use WRTR; for the price, it is pretty helpful (it goes along with the 5th edition WRTR).

[Homeschooling6]

 

PR does have writing but in the first level it's not overwhelming. They are writing only words and starting with lesson 15 they read short stories and illustrate them. We will start the readers after CHRISTmas break. There is composition pages that are marked 'My Sentences" but I haven't got that far yet, so I'm not sure when they start using them. Hmmm....makes me want to find out now. I'll have to find out and comment later. Maybe Tina will see this thread and chime in.

 

 

Wanted to come back and correct my own post:001_huh: At the very beginning of lesson 15 Mrs. Beers does mention original sentences. I some how missed the first few minutes of the dvd lesson 15. She says from here on out to have them start writing sentences and file them away in the composition part of their notebook.

 

Up to lesson 14 they are only writing the spelling words. Lesson 15 they start illustrating the readers and writing original sentences.

 

HTH,

[Colleen in NS]

Do any of you fellow-homeschoolers have experience with either The Writing Road to Reading OR The Phonics Road to Reading/Spelling? I have a friend who swears by WRTR, but my understanding is that it is fairly teacher intensive (lots of prep. time?).

 

I use WRTR, but I only use it to teach how to read and how to spell. I don't use the writing and grammar parts of the 5th edition. I have the 5th edition and a blue edition from before that (4th?). I actually learned the method from the 4th edition (after some coaching from my teacher-mother), which I like better - I bought the 5th just because it had more words in it, but looking back, I probably didn't need it - I just needed to learn the method/rules/phonograms. Once learned, you can apply them to many, many words and to learn to read words you've never been able to read before.

 

Anyway, once I learned the method/rules/phonograms myself by starting my own spelling notebook, I knew it and then it was easy to do a spelling/reading lesson with my kids. No intensive prep time.

[bookmomma]

I've used WRTR and love it. My hubby recommended it because he used it thirty years ago. It covers more than the average phonics/reading program. I wrote a detailed review of it on my blog...just look at the labels.

[MerryAtHope]

Ok, so now I'm doubting myself. Does PR teach more words or material than AAS? Or are they about the same in terms of words/rules? I was thinking of jumping ship to PR, but writing is such a struggle for ds and AAS is going so well, I'm wondering if I should bother if things aren't broke, so to speak.

 

I don't know how the two compare, but I do know that by the end of AAS Level 6, a child will be spelling on a highschool level.

 

I was wanting to switch because I thought ds would learn to read more easily by learning to spell than through just blending/sounding out, which has been true so far, but adding AAS has sort of achieved that purpose.

 

Lots of people use AAS in this way.

 

I love AAS, but everyone tells me it can't be used to teach reading, so I'm wondering if I need something more like PR or if I can carry over enough techniques to teach reading independently of a program.

 

Not sure who "everyone" is, but I know lots of people who do use AAS to teach reading. There are even readers to go with--the Beehive reader 1 goes with the first level, and the author is working on additional readers to go with the other levels.

 

For people who don't use it for reading, the issues are usually because it's not scripted for teaching reading (so they aren't sure how to approach teaching reading), or that it moves too slowly for teaching reading.

 

For the second issue--what the author does when she is teaching reading in her private tutoring practice is to work at two different places in the book if the student needs that. (Some students, perhaps your son is one, actually learn to spell before they learn to read--so they wouldn't need to do this). So she works at one place for reading, and one for spelling. The phonogram CDROM can also be used for teaching all of the phonograms ahead of when they learn them for spelling.

 

To use it for reading, you have your child read the word cards and read the dictation phrases and sentences instead of writing them. You can also use the additional word lists for this. The print in the book might be small for young eyes, and you may want to use a white board and write them up there for your son to read. Or build them with tiles to be read, etc...

 

When my kids were this age, we would make up little stories with words they knew how to sound out, and draw pictures to go with, and make them into little books.

 

On the Chatterbee the author has posted that she plans a manual describing how to use AAS for teaching reading, but unfortunately that's not out yet. Anyway--I would say that whether you can use AAS for reading is your choice, based on whether it gives you what you need. The info is all there--all of the phonics info that applies to spelling applies to reading.

 

I used Reading Reflex when my kids were young, and I've always thought that it would work well with AAS. It also uses the concept of letter tiles (at least in the first half of the book. The 2nd half of the exercises doesn't use them, but once you got used to how to use the tiles for teaching reading, you could continue to use the AAS tiles that way as you progressed). So, that's something you could check into as well, that might add to what you are already doing.

 

I hope you find what will help your son! Merry :-)

[Lovedtodeath]

Hi, sorry to bump this up... but I was wondering if Carrie stuck with AAS. It sounds to me like that is what I would tell her to do.

 

How is it going for you Carrie?