Dual enrollment questions

[Heather in AL]

Hi everyone,

 

As my son is winding up his first semester of high school, dual enrollment is weighing on my mind. He is eligible to dual enroll at our cc in 10th grade, so I've been trying to plan ahead.

 

My questions may have been asked here before, but my searches don't come up with the info I'm looking for.

 

First off, for those of you who award one full credit for a cc class, may I ask why? That had been my intention, but our local high school only awards a half credit, so I wonder if I should follow that guideline (I am not obligated to do so, however). I had thought that the high schools only awarded a half credit so they could keep the kids in school longer, but I wanted other opinions.

 

Another question that has come to mind is the number of cc hours and scholarships. Like many of you, I'm hoping for my ds to receive a scholarship of some amount for college. When I read about the number of cc hours affecting scholarships, what exactly does that mean? I never had the benefit of scholarships (I was the first in my family to attend a university, and we knew NOTHING about having to apply for them, so I didn't~~we thought good students were *found* and rewarded. Many thanks to a good-for-nothing guidance counselor!! How are people supposed to KNOW this stuff if no one tells them??!) Anyway, are all scholarships affected by too many hours, or only the ones offered by individual schools? I have a LOT of research to do on scholarships, because I have only a foggy understanding of how they work.

 

Thanks in advance. I'm sure I will have many more questions as time goes on. Preparing for college is a strange game to learn how to play, especially when there are no hard and fast rules!!

 

ETA: I just realized that my neighborhood high school is on the block schedule, so this further confuses me as to why they only offer a half credit for a cc semester! I am *really* leaning toward awarding a full credit per cc semester now!

Edited December 9, 2009 by Heather in AL
To clarify info about my local high school

[Cedarmom]

Credits- I gave my son 1 credit per class. That was the amount of wotk he did. College classes typically move faster. So the amount of material he covered in a semester would have taken a year in highschool. Seems to me if they are working harder they shouldget the credit for it.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

How are people supposed to KNOW this stuff if no one tells them??!)

That was my question too. I was clueless basically, but I am getting some info here.

When I read about the number of cc hours affecting scholarships, what exactly does that mean?

I believe it means that there are many colleges out there to accept your kids (not as a freshman, but) as a transfer student only when they have already many college credits (even through dual while in high school). By being a transfer student, I am hearing often that you sometimes do not get good scholarships/grants/aid. I'm interested to hear from BTBD parents.

[Miss Marple]

We use the same system of crediting that the public schools use here. For us it is 1 semester CC/university = 1 year high school. So ds's transcript shows which courses were taken concurrently, but they are woven into his high school transcript. That way the universities can see how we credited and scored.

 

Our in-state universities do not penalize a student who graduates with a lot of concurrent hours. They still consider anyone a freshman who is enrolling after graduating from high school. The graduation date is the most important. So all freshman scholarships are still available. My oldest graduated with 35 credit hours.

 

I would suggest you check with any school your student may be interested in and ask how they view concurrent credits. Some don't even accept them as university credits (University of Dallas), others will only accept a certain number, and others don't care how many a student has.

[Janet in WA]

First off, for those of you who award one full credit for a cc class, may I ask why? That had been my intention, but our local high school only awards a half credit, so I wonder if I should follow that guideline (I am not obligated to do so, however). I had thought that the high schools only awarded a half credit so they could keep the kids in school longer, but I wanted other opinions.

I awarded a full credit because that's the convention of our state's dual enrollment program. I suspect that if I had lived in an area where the convention was to award 1/2 credit, that's what I would have done. I'm not totally positive about that, though.

 

Anyway, are all scholarships affected by too many hours, or only the ones offered by individual schools? I have a LOT of research to do on scholarships, because I have only a foggy understanding of how they work.

This really varies, and is probably foggy to most of us, even though we've walked through the process already. Our experience was that certain scholarships are reserved for incoming freshmen, and if dual enrollment credits bump the student out of that category, he won't qualify for those scholarships. You will need to ascertain for yourself whether this might apply to your student. I would advise seeking the advice of the dual enrollment counselor at your cc. Keep in mind, though, that the benefits of dual enrollment credits (including, but not limited to, financial benefits) might outweigh the benefits of the scholarship money he might be forfeiting.

[Heather in AL]

Credits- I gave my son 1 credit per class. That was the amount of wotk he did. College classes typically move faster. So the amount of material he covered in a semester would have taken a year in highschool. Seems to me if they are working harder they shouldget the credit for it.

 

This was my thinking, too. I did just edit my original post to add that the high school is on the block system, so it baffles me as to why they only award a half credit for a semester of cc work.

 

Thanks!

[Heather in AL]

I awarded a full credit because that's the convention of our state's dual enrollment program. I suspect that if I had lived in an area where the convention was to award 1/2 credit, that's what I would have done. I'm not totally positive about that, though.

 

 

This really varies, and is probably foggy to most of us, even though we've walked through the process already. Our experience was that certain scholarships are reserved for incoming freshmen, and if dual enrollment credits bump the student out of that category, he won't qualify for those scholarships. You will need to ascertain for yourself whether this might apply to your student. I would advise seeking the advice of the dual enrollment counselor at your cc. Keep in mind, though, that the benefits of dual enrollment credits (including, but not limited to, financial benefits) might outweigh the benefits of the scholarship money he might be forfeiting.

 

 

Thanks Janet. I did edit my original post to include that our high school is on the block schedule, so my thinking is that a cc semester should be a full credit. I will have to look at our state's recommendations, if there are any.

 

Thanks for your observations regarding freshmen/scholarship info. That makes sense. I will put on my to do list 'contact colleges' for that. Why this has to be so difficult is beyond me! My dh is from France and can't believe the dancing around one has to do here to get in to college/apply for scholarships!

[Mary in GA]

The answers to many of your questions vary by university.

 

In most high schools an AP class such as government or econ may last 1 yr, but are only 1 semester class at college.

 

My ds attended a small university for dual enrollment (we are in GA). Anything under 30 hrs and the dual enrollment student was considered a first time full-time freshman for his first semester of college upon completing his senior yr of high school. The next semester the student's classification would change to what the number of credit hrs would normally be. Also, in my state, dual enrollment students receive funds for their college classes under a subset of the HOPE scholarship. Their tuition is treated as public school.

 

I suggest you contact the dual enrollment adviser where your ds would attend and ask him all these questions. He schould be able to answer your credit hour and financial aid/scholarship questions for dual enrollment. Our adivser was great. As far as other scholarships are concerned, talk to the financial aid office at the college and other prospective universities your ds might want to attend after dual enrollment about what is available and who qualifies. I spent a lot of time on the phone! HTH.

Mary

[Ellie]

1 semester course at c.c. (regardless of how many credits) = 1 high school credit (IOW, credit for a whole year's course). We've never had problems with any colleges questioning that.

[Sunshine State Sue]

I suggest you contact the dual enrollment adviser where your ds would attend and ask him all these questions. He schould be able to answer your credit hour and financial aid/scholarship questions for dual enrollment.

:iagree:

 

Our cc posts what classes can be taken dual enrollment:

http://www.spcollege.edu/central/de/dual_courses.htm

 

They note which are semester long classes that earn 1 year of HS credit. Mostly it is foreign language, science, English (literature or composition), and math. History and most electives do not.

 

You might check to see if your cc has any guidelines.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

Originally Posted by Janet in WA : Keep in mind, though, that the benefits of dual enrollment credits (including, but not limited to, financial benefits) might outweigh the benefits of the scholarship money he might be forfeiting.

Janet, what do you mean by that exactly?

[Sunshine State Sue]

Originally Posted by Janet in WA : Keep in mind, though, that the benefits of dual enrollment credits (including, but not limited to, financial benefits) might outweigh the benefits of the scholarship money he might be forfeiting.

Janet, what do you mean by that exactly?

I'm not Janet, but this is my idea. Here, dual enrollment is free 10th-12th grade. Theoretically, ds could earn enough credits to transfer as a junior. Especially if he transferred to a state university (because of agreements), he would only have to pay university tuition for 2 years instead of 4. That could offset any scholarship he may have been able to obtain had he applied as a freshman. Not to mention the savings on room & board.

 

Out of state and private schools don't have the same agreements that the state universities do (at least here in FL), so whether or not they accept the dual enrollment credits is up to them.

[Brigid in NC]

My ds took multiple Calc/Chem/Physics cc classes. I gave one credit per semester AND weighted his GPA as regular classes A=4.0/honors 5.0/AP or CC 6.0. Seems like as long as you are consistent, you should not have a problem. No school ever questioned our methology. Or if they did, I assume they just adjusted the credits and reweighted the GPA according to their own standards.

 

My guy had loads of CC classes and was offered significant scholarships at both Georgia Tech and NC State without a concern about his apparent "sophomore status" (based on the credits he brought with him). I have heard others talk about scholarship/credits problems, but we never found it to be an issue.

 

Good luck with the scholarships!

~Brigid

[Kareni]

Our situation was a little different in that the local community college is on a quarter system (as opposed to semesters).

 

Amongst the first classes my daughter took there were College Algebra (a five hour class) and Trigonometry (a four hour class). She did these two classes in consecutive quarters. Had she taken a year long class in Precalculus at home or at the local high school, she would have earned one high school credit. Since the combination of College Algebra and Trigonometry is considered Precalculus (and in fact the text used in both of these classes was Sullivan's Precalculus), I assigned each of these classes one half high school credit. To me, it would have seemed too generous to give two credits for this combination of classes. On her transcript, I included a note that each community college class of three hours or more was assigned a value of one half high school credit.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Janet in WA]

I'm not Janet, but this is my idea. Here, dual enrollment is free 10th-12th grade. Theoretically, ds could earn enough credits to transfer as a junior. Especially if he transferred to a state university (because of agreements), he would only have to pay university tuition for 2 years instead of 4. That could offset any scholarship he may have been able to obtain had he applied as a freshman. Not to mention the savings on room & board.

 

Exactly. There's also the value that dual enrollment can have for college classroom experience while still in the home. Dual enrollment credits can be valuable for validation of a homeschool transcript, as they were for one of our sons who applied to a very selective university. That validation meant my son didn't have to take SAT II subject tests for admission to that university. Also dual enrollment credits can help attract other scholarship money that will more than offset any freshman-only scholarship money that has been forfeited. YMMV.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

My guy had loads of CC classes and was offered significant scholarships at both Georgia Tech and NC State without a concern about his apparent "sophomore status" (based on the credits he brought with him). I have heard others talk about scholarship/credits problems, but we never found it to be an issue. ~Brigid

Hi Brigid, You mentioned about getting scholarships without "sophomore status" concern. So I am guessing you meant that your son had around 30 plus college credits. Do you mean you still did not have to concern perhaps even if your son had double amount of that credits, say 60? Or do you know anyone's concern because of that level amount of college credits but wanting to be a freshman with scholarship opportunity? Thanks.

[Brigid in NC]

Hi Brigid, You mentioned about getting scholarships without "sophomore status" concern. So I am guessing you meant that your son had around 30 plus college credits. Do you mean you still did not have to concern perhaps even if your son had double amount of that credits, say 60? Or do you know anyone's concern because of that level amount of college credits but wanting to be a freshman with scholarship opportunity? Thanks.

 

I don't know that I can answer your questions about twice as many credits. My ds had 21 CC credits, as well as 12 AP credits, so his sophomore status was not entirely due to CC courses.

 

When we started down the CC path, it was to fill an academic need for advanced high school math and science courses, so the CC courses fit neatly into the math and science "slots" on my ds's transcript for his junior and senior years. The CC courses were the logical next step, since my ds had completed all of the traditional high school courses, through precalculus and physics. So I don't think my ds looked like a transfer student on paper. However, I think that if he had had twice as many credits, it might have looked that way. I can only speculate -- I really don't know. We never spoke to any colleges about this issue.

 

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful. Good luck!

~Brigid

[Laurie4b]

I'm not Janet, but this is my idea. Here, dual enrollment is free 10th-12th grade. Theoretically, ds could earn enough credits to transfer as a junior. Especially if he transferred to a state university (because of agreements), he would only have to pay university tuition for 2 years instead of 4. That could offset any scholarship he may have been able to obtain had he applied as a freshman. Not to mention the savings on room & board.

 

Out of state and private schools don't have the same agreements that the state universities do (at least here in FL), so whether or not they accept the dual enrollment credits is up to them.

 

That's the way that I look at it, too. A whole year of cc credits= a 25% scholarship.

[AnitaMcC]

From what I was told by HSLDA and heard from several others.... 1 semester of CC = 1 yr of high school credit.

 

We will count a CC course that is 3 credit hours or more as one year of high school credit. If a CC course is less than 3 credit hours or is a non-degree level course, we will count it as a 1/2 credit for high school.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

However, I think that if he had had twice as many credits, it might have looked that way. I can only speculate -- I really don't know. ~Brigid

Thank you very much, Brigid. I PMed you for this matter, could you check?

[Piano&ViolinMom]

Thank you very much, Sue and Janet !!!

[Jenn in CA]

Here in CA at least, the standard view (at UC) is that if you haven't gotten your high school diploma, you are applying as a freshman, regardless of how many college credits you have.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

Thank you, Jenn !

[K-FL]

Dd#1 did her last 3 hs years as dual-enrollment so she had her AA when applying to colleges. We counted each semester as 1 hs credit--regardless of the class. I've never seen anything like Sue in St. Pete posted. Dd applied to all privates and they had no questions regarding her status as a "freshman w/credit." The in-state private she's attending accepted all her credits w/o question. I did talk to King's College (NYC) regarding all this & they said they'd consider the dual-credits as honor's classes, but I don't think they would transfer due to their type of classes (more on the UK-type system I think.)

[Piano&ViolinMom]

Dd#1 did her last 3 hs years as dual-enrollment so she had her AA when applying to colleges. We counted each semester as 1 hs credit--regardless of the class. I've never seen anything like Sue in St. Pete posted. Dd applied to all privates and they had no questions regarding her status as a "freshman w/credit."

Thank you for sharing your experience! Personally I'm a little bit confused Dual College credits matter. My son's college course taking came perhaps too early, needing to take Calculus as a 9th grader. That's how he started homeschooling with taking college courses. I was clueless in homeschooling as I was new to it. As a sophomore, he has already many college credits by now. With college credits, do kids choose to be a freshman or transfering?

[Miss Marple]

With college credits, do kids choose to be a freshman or transfering?

 

The places we looked at considered my ds a freshman because he was entering college for the first time *after* graduating from high school. The amount of credits he had did not matter.

 

Now it is interesting to look at his bio on the university website. It lists him as a junior based on his number of credits, but he is really only a sophomore based on the amount of time he has spent in university since graduating from high school.

 

There may be some universities where one can choose, but the ones we looked at simply assigned him freshman status based on his high school graduation date.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

The places we looked at considered my ds a freshman because he was entering college for the first time *after* graduating from high school. The amount of credits he had did not matter.

Thank you Cynthia! That's what I automatically thought when my son started homeschooling for the first time, as a 9th grader but with taking several college courses. Recently I have noticed some complication in this dual issue in some colleges including UPENN. For example, UPENN web gave me an impression that you can not apply as a freshman even if you are a high schooler, if you have (certain number of) college credits already. I'm confused indeed.

[Sunshine State Sue]

Thank you Cynthia! That's what I automatically thought when my son started homeschooling for the first time, as a 9th grader but with taking several college courses. Recently I have noticed some complication in this dual issue in some colleges including UPENN. For example, UPENN web gave me an impression that you can not apply as a freshman even if you are a high schooler, if you have (certain number of) college credits already. I'm confused indeed.

Have you signed up for the 2 yahoo groups?

hs2coll

homeschool2college

 

Their mantra is "ask the college". Lots of knowledge on those lists.

[Janet in WA]

Recently I have noticed some complication in this dual issue in some colleges including UPENN. For example, UPENN web gave me an impression that you can not apply as a freshman even if you are a high schooler, if you have (certain number of) college credits already. I'm confused indeed.

We encountered colleges who took this stance, too. They stated a cutoff for college credits, beyond which any applicant was considered a transfer applicant, no matter when or how those college credits were earned. Those colleges were in the Oregon state system, by the way, which is why many WA high school students don't take full advantage of our state's dual enrollment opportunity. This stipulation didn't bother us at all because our sons weren't interested in any colleges where their dual enrollment credits had any effect on their admissions status.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

...which is why many WA high school students don't take full advantage of our state's dual enrollment opportunity.

Janet, thank you so much! Wow, is that right? I'm concerned, because it's too late for me to do anything as my sophomore has already too many credits. And still 2 more years to go. It's quite painful to know this stuff too late as well as his taking Calculus came too early unusually.

[Heather in AL]

Thank you everyone who has posted! I learned to much from all of you!

 

I did a lot of research and found.... no consensus on how to count cc classes in my area. :tongue_smilie: Basically, the cc has a statement buried deep in their website that they leave it up to the schools how much credit to award, but that they "suggest" 1/2 credit "at a minimum" be awarded for each 3 hour class. Well, in talking it over with dh, he agrees that since the local school is on the block schedule, and those kids get a full credit for their one semester class at the school, then he is all for awarding a full credit for our cc classes. We both feel that the 1/2 credit cc deal has to do with money (butts in the seats = fed $$) AND a desire to make cc look undesirable next to their own offerings of a full credit for one semester Honors & AP classes.

 

I will have to look at the universities and see what they do regarding cc credit transfers, scholarships, etc. There are no transfer guarantees, though, from ccs, so there is no way to tell which cc classes will count toward a degree---basically, I keep reading that (paraphrasing here) "at the time of registration, any cc credits will be evaluated and applicable classes will be counted toward the degree at the discretion of the department head". :glare: Until I find out more, I'm not puting much hope there. And for out-of-state unis, I'm not sure they would even take cc classes. I know one private uni that my ds dreams of attending states that NO cc classes are accepted. It's a shame, but I do understand.... it's a school known for its medical degrees (MDs, medical research, etc), so rather than pick and choose, it looks like they just negate those credits. HOWEVER, they do state on their webste that the just LOVE to see cc hours on a transcript.

 

Anyway, thanks again. You all are a fount of knowledge ~~ even those who have questions like me, as sometimes there are questions/situations that I find helpful! :D

 

Just to forewarn.... I do have other dual credit questions forming... it's like the show LOST~~ I have a few questions answered, but several more have popped up! :tongue_smilie:

 

Y'all are great!

[Melissa B]

I'm not Janet, but this is my idea. Here, dual enrollment is free 10th-12th grade. Theoretically, ds could earn enough credits to transfer as a junior. Especially if he transferred to a state university (because of agreements), he would only have to pay university tuition for 2 years instead of 4. That could offset any scholarship he may have been able to obtain had he applied as a freshman. Not to mention the savings on room & board.

 

Out of state and private schools don't have the same agreements that the state universities do (at least here in FL), so whether or not they accept the dual enrollment credits is up to them.

 

(Sorry for the hijack)

 

Hi Sue,

 

Is this your plan for 10th through 12th? Which campus? It is what my daughter plans to do, possibly transferring to UF as a junior.

I talked to Mr. Webster from the Tarpon Springs office earlier this week to see what we would need to do and when. He was quite supportive. It sounded as if not many homeschoolers around here actually do dual enrollment - he leaned more toward Early College. But when I assured him we would be doing dual enrollment not Early College - he was still informative and sounded supportive. Do you know any homeschool families currently in dual enrollment? I'm wondering how they find the level of classes and campus atmosphere? I just spent the last week rearranging our schedule. If dd wants to transfer as an entering junior for a science degree she has to take a minimum of six science and four math classes at SPC. We were not originally planning on so many!

We are just going to follow the suggested number of credits for our high school transcript. As she plans to take the AA - it really won't matter much what her high school transcript has on it. But, of course I will put it together as plans can always change.

Thanks for any info or opinions you can share on SPC.

[Sunshine State Sue]

Melissa,

 

I PM'ed you.