TOG for High School

[Lux Et Veritas Academy]

Has anybody used this for high school? What was your experience

[Guest Lorna]

Bump

[Janice in NJ]

I think there are a lot of gals on this HS board who are using TOG, but I suspect that you aren't getting a response because your question is just too general.

 

If you are looking for general info about TOG experiences, I would suggest that you spend some time searching this board and the old boards. :001_smile:

 

I am using TOG Redesign 1 at the 9th grade level as our spine this year, and honestly I only have two responses that I could write to your question.

 

The first is: Good!

 

And the second is a book! And I don't have the time to do that unless I decide NOT to homeschool my kids today. ;)

 

I suspect that a more specific question will generate a more helpful response. :)

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[coopers5]

Hello,

 

I'm using TOG Yr. 2 Redesigned this year (for the first time) with my 10th grade daughter. I think it is a wonderful program. We have covered so much and my daughter has learned a great deal about analyzing literature and is challenged with the rigor of the work.

She's a bright student who reads well, and I needed something to help me make the most of that. We'd been trying to follow TWTM in various ways and have admittedly done pretty well, but as I watched her maturing, I knew I needed some help (with how to have good discussion, in particular) and she needed a push, as well.

 

To try to nutshell it best I can - it really aids me in giving a solid classical education to my child. (last one at home - two in college)

 

I highly recommend it. I did post on someone else's thread not too long ago and gave more detail. Perhaps it was one in which someone was asking "what to use for history." But I am not sure.

 

God bless,

Jo

[Karenciavo]

Another 9th grader here. We love it. Ds14 is getting a lot out of it. The literary studies are incredible. Government is fabulous. I really can't say enough about TOG.

[gardenschooler]

I'll be happy to ask a specific question, but be forewarned, this is going to be the thread that never dies.

 

What does a sample day look like for a 9th grader? I plan on using all parts of it (church history, writing aids, etc.) I'm expecting it to take several hours because it covers so many subjects.

 

If the Writing aids goes well, we may just do *more* of that instead of adding another writing program. I would really like to simplify, and let TOG be all that it can be. :) DD will do some sort of outside writing class, but it may not be all year.

 

So for 9th grade, we'll add our geometry, Latin, Spanish @ co-op, and chemistry. What else? Grammar? We'll just keep on w/BJU for that, for at least 9th (since I already have the TE and need to get my money's worth out of it = 2 kids). We do the writing out of there, too, which can be pared down or added to. Easy.

 

What else? Nothing, right? Vocabulary? Adding to the art appreciation, or is there plenty of that? (I want that! Please say there is plenty! That's one of the areas I neglect)

 

Those subjects (geometry, Latin, chemistry, grammar) will take a little less than 3 hours/day. The Spanish has weekly homework, but I don't schedule that into my day (it's homework!)

 

So can I expect TOG, using as much as I can out of it, to take around 3-4 hours/day? How much extra time for additional reading, beyond that?

 

And what exactly would that consist of, your TOG time? The weekly meetings/discussions would be once a week for each subject? So something like history on Wed, Lit on Thurs, and...? Church history on another day? Philosophy? Or combine days? What about teaching writing? Do you teach one thing per day, or have some days that are heavier teaching/discussion days than others?

 

Ok, that's my first question. :blush:

 

I have been reading the TOG board, but I haven't really found the answer to these yet. I'll keep digging, but anyone who can help me over here (where it's cozy and familiar to me) will be much appreciated and the receiver of my rep-slingin' fests.

[Karenciavo]

What does a sample day look like for a 9th grader? I plan on using all parts of it (church history, writing aids, etc.) I'm expecting it to take several hours because it covers so many subjects.

 

We are using Year 2 Redesign. We use TOG for History, Government, Philosophy, Church History, & Writing. A typical weekly schedule is a follows:

 

Day 1

Read General Information for All Ages (1st page of blue sheets)

Read over weekly assignments/questions.

Begin History readings

Complete Geography

Make Literary term flash cards

Start Literature

Begin Government

Writing

 

Day 2

History readings

history questions

Complete Timeline

Literature

Finish Government (if needed)

Philosophy readings (not PoP)

Government & Philosophy Discussion (read PoP together)

Writing

 

Day 3

History readings

History questions, finish if possible

Literature

Church History

Writing

 

Day 4

History readings (if needed)

Finish answering history questions (if needed)

Literature

Finish Church History (if needed)

Writing

History and Church History discussion with dialectic & rhetoric students

 

Day 5 (Co-op day & AP Biology outside class)

Literature Discussion

Evaluations Weekly Quiz

 

So for 9th grade, we'll add our geometry, Latin, Spanish @ co-op, and chemistry. What else? Grammar?

What else? Nothing, right? Vocabulary? Adding to the art appreciation, or is there plenty of that? (I want that! Please say there is plenty! That's one of the areas I neglect)

He has math, Latin, Greek, AP Biology. I round out his English I with Stewart's Grammar & various vocabulary programs. Year 2 has art appreciation, whether it's plenty or not I could not say. It's enough for us.

 

So can I expect TOG, using as much as I can out of it, to take around 3-4 hours/day? How much extra time for additional reading, beyond that?

It takes my son about 2-3 hours (depending on the day, he jams a lot into days 2 & 3), not including discussions. Government and philosophy discussion takes about 45 minutes, same with Lit. History and Church History discussion takes about 1-1.5 hours. I start my weeks on Friday so he can read over the weekend, he usually doesn't need to, but it looks like the unit we are in now is picking up steam and he might need to read a few hours over the weekend.

 

And what exactly would that consist of, your TOG time? The weekly meetings/discussions would be once a week for each subject? So something like history on Wed, Lit on Thurs, and...? Church history on another day? Philosophy? Or combine days? What about teaching writing? Do you teach one thing per day, or have some days that are heavier teaching/discussion days than others?

I answered part of this above. Besides discussion, my time is spent reading the teacher's notes, exploring the TOG web site to see if there is anything there I want to pull in, as well as seeing if there is anything on my shelf I can use for more info. Takes a few more hours a week for all levels (I have 1 rhetoric, 1 dialectic, 1 lower grammar.) I rearrange the discussion script a bit so I can have rhetoric & dialectic discussion at the same time (just history & church history.) None of this includes the time I spend with my LG son.

 

 

HTH,

Karen

[harmonyartmom]

We are using TOG for our third year now and I currently have a 9th grader using Redesign Year 1.

 

No complaints, love the books, we pick and choose as we wish, he is learning lots about Bible history, and we love, love, love the POP quiz CD....a must have in my opinion.

 

You can look at all we are doing for our 9th grade here:

Well-Trained Mind Grade Nine using TOG

 

We are going to continue on next year with Redesign year 2.

 

Barb-Harmony Art Mom

[gardenschooler]

Thank you both! This is very helpful. Karen, it helps me a lot to see the weekly breakdown of what you do and when. Barb, I'm off to glean from your blog.

[gardenschooler]

I found the art appreciation I was looking for. :001_smile:

[LisaNY]

Another 9th grader here. We love it. Ds14 is getting a lot out of it. The literary studies are incredible. Government is fabulous. I really can't say enough about TOG.

 

Karen, are the Dialectic literary studies in the Redesign very different from the Classic? If so, can list a few differences?

 

We will begin week 34 of yr 2 next week. I am wondering how I can possibly manage to use the Redesign yr 3 and still have my dd do 1/2 year of World History at the end of 9th gr. I have to prepare her for entering PS in 10th gr, and she will have to take the World History Regents in 9th.

 

The more I hear about how great the Redesign is, especially for the Dialectic, the more I want to cry thinking about not being able to use it. :crying:

[Karenciavo]

Karen, are the Dialectic literary studies in the Redesign very different from the Classic? If so, can list a few differences?

 

We will begin week 34 of yr 2 next week. I am wondering how I can possibly manage to use the Redesign yr 3 and still have my dd do 1/2 year of World History at the end of 9th gr. I have to prepare her for entering PS in 10th gr, and she will have to take the World History Regents in 9th.

 

The more I hear about how great the Redesign is, especially for the Dialectic, the more I want to cry thinking about not being able to use it. :crying:

 

The dialectic is better, but my 9th grade son is rhetoric level which is a big difference from Classic. Could you end this year and begin next with World History (admittedly I know nothing about Regents) and then do TOG 3 at some point after?

[LisaNY]

Thanks, Karen. I was tired when I posted last night. I meant to say that I have to finish TOG yr 3 AND 4, finishing up the last 1/2 of 9th gr. with the first part of World History. I would like the World History info. to be fresh in her mind when she takes the Regents in 9th.

[gardenschooler]

I had originally planned to start with Year 1 for 9th grade, but with reservations. We did a very thorough year of ancient history in 6th grade (and at least twice before that!), but we haven't had a very thorough year on what the first half of TOG Year 2 covers (Middle Ages/Ren/Ref). Somewhat, but not in as much detail as I would have liked. Instead of keeping with the 4-year cycle for history, we did World History for 7th (about 1400-present) and we're doing U.S. History for 8th.

 

I don't really feel excited about doing ancient history right now again, but I can get excited about Year 2 (where I feel the gaps are). So would this work? Year 2, 3, 4, and then Year 1 in 12th grade?

 

I also feel like we can get so much more out of some of the readings and discussion of Year 1 if we wait. SWB even says this, right? (or am I making up quotes to suit myself? I'm sure I read this in WTM, that Year 1 can be even more beneficial done later in the Rhetoric stage). I just think I could demand so much more out of her doing this year of study in 12th instead of 9th.

 

I also want to be able to fold my little one in on the same time period. I've been doing SOTW with her, and starting TOG in Year 2 instead of Year 1 would just flow better from where she is now. We've been doing SOTW since 1st grade, but stretched SOTW 1 out over 1st & 2nd, and just started SOTW 2 this year. We've had lots of side excursions into geography studies (different cultures/countries, as well as US geography), and some American history unit studies. So here at the end of 3rd grade, we're only up to SOTW 2 (and not even finished with that).

 

I could even stretch out her history and geography this year to line up just fine with TOG 2 next year. Some of it would be overlap, but it would still line up better *in my head* than starting her over at the beginning, before she's even finished a cycle. I also don't want her to miss out on certain books (or end up being too old for them by the time we get there). As it is, we're a little 'old' in the SOTW, and I just hate the idea of starting all over before we're finished. She loves SOTW and I'd line that up with her TOG, but we will definitely do them. So she'd then go on and finish the cycle from 4th - 6th grades. That just seems cleaner to me than starting her over in the Ancients next year.

 

So would there be any major problem starting in Year 2 with a 9th grader & a 4th grader? Would it mess up the philosophy discussion for my 9th grader? Does that start in Year 1 and continue on? Or could we jump in?

 

I guess I just need to know if the flow of any part of TOG would be out of sync for my 9th grader. I am very interested in being able to use the philosophy, art, etc. - but will she be able to? Would we need the philosophy from Year 1 as a foundation?

 

Help me....I make myself KOOKY! I'm off to steal some candy from the children.

 

[Karenciavo]

We did a very thorough year of ancient history in 6th grade (and at least twice before that!),

Between Latin, Greek, & TOG my boys are heavy on the ancients too. :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't really feel excited about doing ancient history right now again, but I can get excited about Year 2 (where I feel the gaps are). So would this work? Year 2, 3, 4, and then Year 1 in 12th grade?

Sure, no problem. If you are going to attempt the Government credit you should at least listen to or read The Republic by Plato. Even though the government year 2 questions don't refer back to it (that I recall anyway), we find ourselves comparing the Philosopher King with various other types that are presented. We're reading Machiavelli now and having a blast.

 

I also feel like we can get so much more out of some of the readings and discussion of Year 1 if we wait. SWB even says this, right? (or am I making up quotes to suit myself? I'm sure I read this in WTM, that Year 1 can be even more beneficial done later in the Rhetoric stage). I just think I could demand so much more out of her doing this year of study in 12th instead of 9th.

:confused: Sorry, I don't recall.

 

She loves SOTW and I'd line that up with her TOG, but we will definitely do them.

I'm not sure if you know this, but it's lined up for you.

 

So would there be any major problem starting in Year 2 with a 9th grader & a 4th grader? Would it mess up the philosophy discussion for my 9th grader? Does that start in Year 1 and continue on? Or could we jump in?

Make it work for you. Week two of Year One introduces you to the character of Simplicio, the young man looking for wisdom in Pag. of Philo. You could download it from the Year One sample and read that first.

 

I am very interested in being able to use the philosophy, art, etc. - but will she be able to? Would we need the philosophy from Year 1 as a foundation?

I really don't think it will be a problem. Each week is pretty much separate. Every once in a while the character of Simplicio say, "That's what so and so said when I met him." No big deal.

 

Relax, it will be great. :001_smile:

[Trina in TX]

next year will be our first year for rhetoric. I am excited and scared at the same time! Karen, do you read the literature your kids are reading, or do you use the teachers notes to discuss with them?

 

As for the government, philosophy and art electives, how many high school credits do those count for each year?

 

Thanks Karen, and everyone else, I was going to ask this same question and your responses have been incredibly helpful.

 

Trina

[Karenciavo]

do you read the literature your kids are reading, or do you use the teachers notes to discuss with them?

I don't read them all. Some I have read already (Beowulf, Dante, Shakespeare, Sir Gawain), some I do read (The Faerie Queen), and some I just use the teacher's notes. I purchased the government reading CD and I read those excerpts, but I don't read the other government scheduled readings.

 

As for the government, philosophy and art electives, how many high school credits do those count for each year?

Government - .5 credit, Philosophy - .5 credit, and fine art is .25 credit. You can download the credit breakdowns from The Loom at the TOG site.

 

Karen

[harmonyartmom]

Gardenschooler,

 

I don't think there is a problem with starting in year 2 either. I would think that saving year 1 for your 12th grade year would give your student that much more maturity before hitting the more difficult reading offered in year 1. My son, who is a very quick scholar, has had some books where we needed to really slow down in TOG year 1. I had to eliminate some of the books just to make sure we were reading with understanding the ones our family felt were the most important. The Bible reading on its own is a heavy load in some weeks. I did end up purchasing some of the Teaching Company DVDs just so we could watch together after the weekly readings to tie up the loose ends.

 

The philosophy, in my opinion, is not really a building thing. It is more or less a tie in to a character that you read about in each week's plan. Honestly, when the time runs short and I need to cut something, we cut the Pageant of Philosophy. Then the next week, we just pick up with that week's edition.

 

SOTW is planned in year 2 redesign as an alternate or extra resource.

 

For what it's worth, we started TOG in year 3 and then did year 4 and now we are in year 1 and it has been a fabulous experience. I am really looking forward to next year and completing year 2 redesign.

 

I say go for year 2 with both.

 

Barb-Harmony Art MOm

[gardenschooler]

 

Sure, no problem. If you are going to attempt the Government credit you should at least listen to or read The Republic by Plato.

 

You could download it from the Year One sample and read that first.

 

 

Thank you so much, Karen. We will plan on doing both of these over the summer.

 

I feel prepared now. :)

[gardenschooler]

Gardenschooler,

 

I did end up purchasing some of the Teaching Company DVDs just so we could watch together after the weekly readings to tie up the loose ends.

 

The philosophy, in my opinion, is not really a building thing. It is more or less a tie in to a character that you read about in each week's plan. Honestly, when the time runs short and I need to cut something, we cut the Pageant of Philosophy. Then the next week, we just pick up with that week's edition.

 

I say go for year 2 with both.

 

Barb-Harmony Art MOm

 

Thank you, Barb. I just didn't know how much the Pageant of Philosophy built on Year 1, but it sounds like it will work out just fine. Thanks for spelling it all out for me.

 

I also wanted to line up their art with the TOG. I'll be bothering you soon with all of my questions on that. :)

 

It's good to hear that you've done the TOG starting in a year other than Year 1, and it's all worked out. Thanks for the green light - I'm excited now and ready to start planning and ordering (and studying!).