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Thoughts on Hake/ Saxon Grammar for 5th grade?


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#1 sweetsouthern

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 01:34 AM

i have a few questions...

1. are all the books neccessary?
2. is dictation only introduced in the chapter it has it in, or is it done throught the book.
3. is there anywhere else to purchase it besides the Saxon website?

your thoughts on the program? thanks!:lurk5:

#2 prairie rose

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 08:43 AM


1. are all the books neccessary?
I purchased the homeschool kit and we do use all the books.
2. is dictation only introduced in the chapter it has it in, or is it done throught the book.
Dictation is started the first week and repeated every week there after.

3. is there anywhere else to purchase it besides the Saxon website?
I got it from Rainbow Resource

your thoughts on the program?
I really like it, it's everything I could ask for in a middle grades English curriculum. Ds tolerates it but he's not jumping up and down when it's time for English. There are 30 problems in the daily review sets but only 4 or 5 of a specific kind of problem generally so it's not quite like the boring endless review sets I remember from Saxon Math (we don't use Saxon Math but I went to a public school that used Saxon from 5th - 12th grade)

:D

#3 sweetsouthern

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 12:10 PM

thanks!

how is diagramming done? is it just in the one chapter, or throughout the book?

#4 plimsoll

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 12:24 PM

I really like it. It is very complete, and like Saxon Math, has enough review/practice that things stick.

I bought the kit and we use all the books. We use the Student Workbook less and could do without it if we had to, since we use IEW and CW for writing. We still do many of the exercises in the workbook as supplementary practice.

The teacher packet contains all the answers, additional practice, and tests. If you are comfortable correcting the work without having the answers and you do not need the tests or extra practice, then you could manage without the teacher packet.

However, for most curricula, I find it useful to get the teacher's manual, even if I only refer to it occasionally for answers to things I cannot answer myself....

#5 plimsoll

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 12:26 PM

how is diagramming done? is it just in the one chapter, or throughout the book?


Diagramming is done throughout.

#6 prairie rose

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 12:55 PM

I don't have the book in front of me so I can't remember exactly which lesson it starts in but diagramming is introduced and then incrementally built upon and reviewed in each lesson there after. The book is not laid out in chapters really but daily lessons and the next lesson builds on and reviews all the previous lessons. If you have looked at Saxon approach to math at all, it's very very similar. It is the closest thing to a complete, rigorous Language arts program I could find. I only add spelling (only because my 5th grader needs it still), literature studies and a Latin program.

Edited by prairie rose, 20 November 2009 - 01:14 PM.


#7 sweetsouthern

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 01:02 PM

awesome! thank you both! i think this is what i will be ordering for her :)

#8 Crimson Wife

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 02:13 PM

:lurk5:

How do you ladies feel Saxon/Hake compares to other middle school grammar programs? What made you choose it?

#9 EKS

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 02:31 PM

I used Hake Grammar for two years with my older son. He got 90%+ on the assessments that entire time but a year later (after completing Hake 8 and then using Daily Grams for review) he has retained very little and has demonstrated that he has *no* big picture understanding of grammar.

So we are now doing MCT LA to try to get a handle on the big picture. Already it's making a huge difference.

I would say that if your children use Saxon math and are able to gain big picture understanding from it, then Hake Grammar may be a good choice, but if they need a program like Singapore to get full understanding, then Hake is probably not the way to go.

#10 prairie rose

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 03:39 PM

:lurk5:

How do you ladies feel Saxon/Hake compares to other middle school grammar programs? What made you choose it?


I've not used a lot of other middle school grammar programs as we are just starting middle school but of the ones I've seen and the couple of I've used, Saxon felt solid but yet still gave the information in small pieces (very important for my oldest who is easily overwhelmed when presented with a lot of information) I also like that it had everything I was looking for in one program; solid grammar instruction with diagramming, copywork, dictation, writing and composition instruction (again in little bites perfect for my ds), journal writing and vocabulary words. It's all in one book and covered in one "class period" When I tried to pull together one thing for grammar and another writing and pull my own dictation and copywork and vocabulary, it felt disjointed and often didn't happen they way I would like. I'm so glad we found a keeper for us so early on in middle school.

In the Rainbow Resource description of the program it says they have had many homeschool moms wish for a LA program along the same lines as Saxon math. I was one of those moms. ;) I don't like the approach as well for math but I thought it was the perfect way for us to approach LA. And so far it has been. ;)

That's our story, FWIW.

ETA: Another big thing for us was that it is a secular curriculum. :thumbup:

Edited by prairie rose, 20 November 2009 - 03:44 PM.


#11 mom2abcd

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 05:55 PM

What are the various themes for the levels?

Hake 5 seems to be about American Geography.
Hake 8 – American Government

Dd didn't last long with topics about the Constitution, etc. constantly.

Is 5 interesting? What are levels 6 & 7 about?

#12 dragons in the flower bed

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 06:18 PM

Does it devote much time to creative writing?

#13 prairie rose

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 07:01 PM

What are the various themes for the levels?

Hake 5 seems to be about American Geography.
Hake 8 – American Government

Dd didn't last long with topics about the Constitution, etc. constantly.

Is 5 interesting? What are levels 6 & 7 about?


Yes, I think it's pretty interesting but I find grammar and diagramming to be interesting so take my opinion for what it's worth. :lol: I just asked my ds who is using it (11yo 5th grader) if he thought it was interesting and he said the daily work sentences, copywork and dictation was interesting but he doesn't care for some of the journal topics. I do give him liberty some days to just write about any topic in his journal. Some days I have him choose one of Saxon's journal topics. Saxon has enough journal topics in there that you wouldn't have to think of any yourself if you didn't want to.

Does it devote much time to creative writing?


They write in their journals 3 days a week (copywork and dictation replace the journal writing on the other 2 days). Like I said, you can use their journal topics or just let them write on a topic of your choosing or their choosing. Ds has written stories and other creative things for his journal topic instead of the assigned topic. I'm not sure what you are looking for in the way of time devoted to creative writing but I can look in the table of contents and let you know. ;)

#14 sweetsouthern

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 07:52 PM

if u just used it for the grammar portion and didnt use the writing or copywork because you like something better, approximately how much time would grammar 5 take

:lurk5: thank you so much for all the info by the way :001_smile:

#15 dragons in the flower bed

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 07:54 PM

I'm not sure what you are looking for in the way of time devoted to creative writing but I can look in the table of contents and let you know. ;)


I actually am looking for something that doesn't spend much time teaching the writing of fiction or poetry, something that has any entirely practical, college-prep focus for future science majors.

We're going to be using Classical Comp., I believe, so style will be covered elsewhere. I just want academic writing down pat a little bit sooner than the progym programs provide. And I have no qualms with doing two full English programs, because I'm draconian, no, I mean, focused like that.

Edited by dragons in the flower bed, 20 November 2009 - 07:57 PM.


#16 prairie rose

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 08:07 PM

I just looked over the TOC and there are exactly 3 out of 31 writing lessons devoted to writing an imaginative story. Almost all the other lessons are on essay writing. ;) Really if all you wanted was the writing component, you could just order the Student Workbook. All the writing lessons are in there. ;)

Sweetsouthern, it wouldn't take long at all. Just reading through the lesson (1 - 3 pages) and how ever long it takes them to work through the 30 problem review set. When he's on his game, my son takes about 30 - 40 minutes to do the whole thing and can mostly do it independently other than the occasional question. ;)

Edited by prairie rose, 20 November 2009 - 08:11 PM.


#17 sweetsouthern

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 08:22 PM

awesome! thank you! im ordering it now to give it a try :)

#18 dragons in the flower bed

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 08:25 PM

I just looked over the TOC and there are exactly 3 out of 31 writing lessons devoted to writing an imaginative story. Almost all the other lessons are on essay writing. ;) Really if all you wanted was the writing component, you could just order the Student Workbook. All the writing lessons are in there


Oh, that's perfect.

Is the grammar related to writing at all? I'd rather something where the two are integrated, where kids are expected to think about their writing in grammatical terms. And I do need a source for diagramming.

#19 prairie rose

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 08:35 PM

The diagramming and grammar are in the textbook, typical Saxon style textbook where you copy the problems onto a separate sheet of paper. I wouldn't call the writing and grammar lessons integrated at all, as in they don't refer specifically to each other but the first writing lesson does assume that you already know what nouns and verbs are which have been introduced in the grammar lessons that should have already been completed before beginning the first writing lesson. There is a schedule of lessons, when to do the writing lessons and when to do the tests, in the teacher booklet. But if you just wanted writing and already had a grammar program with diagramming that you liked (like say Junior Analytical Grammar which we were doing before Saxon), you really could just work with the Student Workbook only and just go through the lessons at your own pace. ;)

Edited by prairie rose, 20 November 2009 - 08:38 PM.


#20 dragons in the flower bed

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:50 PM

You have been so helpful, prairie rose. Thank you very very much.

#21 prairie rose

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 01:45 AM

no problem ;)


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