Scattered thoughts, bad day.....

[Susan C.]

Hey all,

I'm sure this is a common thread.... how can we go from going ok to getting out the phone book and announcing you are selling all of the books and sending your teen to school? I hope I can organize my thoughts well enough to get good input...

 

DD, age 16, is a great girl. She lacks confidence, and studies for a ridiculous amount of time for any test she takes. If life gets busy, tests get postponed. Last night, I pulled a little trick on her. I gave her an hour to study, and then gave an oral test on literature. I left out the stupid questions about tedious information, but included terms, authors, works, quotes, and general information about what she read. I made her take the test at an hour, and even though she begged for more time, I didn't cave. Like I thought, she got everything right except one small item. That was a lot of wear and tear on me over one test.....

 

She is not very disciplined, she drifts a lot and there is a lot of unaccounted for time. It isn't computer, that has been taken care of :) I think she frets about having to remember tedious details for the tests and questions that are with her curriculum, and can't read for ideas because of this. Last week, she took eight hours to read eight pages in her history (????) Today I made a schedule for her to follow, and of course, she had better ideas..... (NOT). She does school every waking minute, and her drift time ends up being her down time (if I had a dollar for every time we have discussed this I would be rich). So tonight, she wants to go to youth group (and I want her to go), but as usual she is no where near finished with a reasonable amount of school work. And, she is supposed to babysit (I may have to take it...). Grrrrrr. We had a show down, I told her I am not up to 2 1/2 more years of this, of yelling, begging, same old speeches. The public school here isn't very good, but I said I'm not going to feed these bad habits anymore. She doesn't want to go, and I don't want her to, but the stress is awful.

 

I read WTM last summer and have been reading this forum and it seems I can homeschool a little differently (I did do this some with ds that has graduated, but another story, he was a slow poke also, and is home going to college, and he does homework every waking minute as well...), but I am scared she will just sit and drift and then do even less than she is doing now. She read a poem today, there wasn't much about it or the author in the lit. book, so I found the Sparks Notes on it, and we talked about it for about 1/2 an hour, she said that this is what she wants to do, she is tired of trying to get everything on her own. I don't mind doing this a little, but isn't she the one who is in school, and shouldn't she push for things a little without me "spoon feeding" everything to her?? What keeps me from doing a more WTM way is I don't have limitless time to put this all together, and I don't feel she has the discipline to handle all of this. I may be able to lead her there, and then maybe she will be able to do this.

 

So, how much school each day? The 1/2 hour on just one poem (but she learned), if we do school like that, it will take forever, and we will cover less ground. I always thought that homeschool should cover all time periods, and literature from all periods and various countries. So how do I balance the slower discussions, the discovery, with the amount of work that needs to be accomplished at this level?

 

Both of my kids seem to have taken bad study habits from homeschooling because they have limitless time to do everything. Thankfully they are good students, but it is painful to watch them go through all of their mental gymnastics while doing school work... and neither of them have much of a life, which I don't like. DH and I can't believe they don't blaze through their studies so they can do other things.

 

Well, how is this for scattered.... thoughts would be appreciated.

[ChristineP]

I would like to see the replies also...

[Nan in Mass]

Hugs Susan. Mine dawdle sometimes, and I had one that was frustratingly ssslllloooowwww. Where does she do her schoolwork? Is she curled up comfortably on her bed with music playing? If so, you might consider putting her upright at the kitchen table where you can check on her and where she isn't too comfortable. Or maybe you will have to find the time to work with her more. My son knows someone who just went back to school after homeschooling. He said that it was because her mother didn't do any of her schoolowork with her; she was left to do her schoolwork by herself on the computer. I know some students can actually learn this way, but when telling me about this girl, my 15yo was adamant that that wouldn't work for him. He thanked me for working with him so much. I go over every lesson with him, discussing it with him, and we usually take turns reading the books aloud. Then he does the work part by himself. Is there any way you can find the time to get her started in a few of her subjects, or discuss her literature with her a few times a week?

-Nan

[Susan C.]

I have started doing school with her to see where all of the time is going. She was even drifting off during the math dvd..... but I caught her and "brought her back." I do have 2-4 hours a day to give her. I just don't want to do her school for her while she watches :) She does seem to need time for things to make sense, and likes to ponder things. She does end up remembering quite a lot. I know she would LOVE whole books, but then we won't cover everything I would like to. And, then, how would you grade that?

 

Thanks!

[Lori D.]

Actually, my bad day thoughts are: "Keep the books. Sell the teens." :tongue_smilie:

 

Maybe we can all work out a teen swap? Seriously, it does get better; each day is a NEW day. So much of it is teen hormones and self-identity getting worked out. And all of that guff they give us is really their way of making sure we still love them, even when they are at their unloveable worst. So take a breath. A very DEEP breath. Maybe 10 or 20. Get away regularly for a solo brisk walk, a run, a swim -- whatever aerobic exercise helps you throw off stress. Write out a thankful list of all things to be grateful for in who your teen is. Wrestle your teen to the floor every so often with a hug. Throw school work into a box every once in awhile and just go for a hike together. Maybe it will become clear they need to do school elsewhere, especially if that means that is what will allow the two of you to work on developing a good parent/young adult relationship -- that adult relationship is what you want to last a lifetime; school is temporary.

 

I do find that sometimes my slowpoke actually gets work done if I assign it and LEAVE. I let it be known what exactly needs to be finished and then run errands. Also, I found he was more independent when under someone else's teaching, or even under my teaching but when he was part of a teen homeschool class I taught -- peer pressure worked wonders! Peer pressure (in a controlled setting) has also helped them gain some self confidence -- a week at Worldview Academy summer leadership camp; Youth and Government; member of public school tennis team; all of those things have helped them see what other teens their age are doing or are capable of, and they have definitely not wanted to be left behind when in those settings. Some of that then rubs off and has continued (a little bit) into the rest of the school year. Next year the older one will be doing a community college class, which should be quite a wake-up call. I've looked for opportunities to stretch them a little at a time outside the home -- opportunities to "fail safety" (where it's not so critical, and they can really learn from the experience) -- but so far, everything has been a success, which HAS given them a bit more self confidence.

 

And someone please re-post this back at me in a week or two when I am in the midst of my next round of boy-battling-school. :tongue_smilie:

Edited November 19, 2009 by Lori D.
added info

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Is she a perfectionist that wants to memorize every detail? Does her books have questions to answer, fill in the blank exercises, and tests to take?

 

If so, perhaps you could tweak the assignment for a while. Like until Christmas, then in January talk about the changes and adjust the assignments for the remainder of the year.

 

The tweaks to make??? Well, she could read the books and then orally discuss with you what the read about. She could read the assignment and write up a short summary, about 1 page, of the reading. Literature? How about just read to enjoy the story?

 

Personally, I think we can over analyze, over question, over test just because it is in the curriculum.

 

My 17 yog basically just read a few subjects for a month. She is feeling better and just today I gave her the first written assignment in weeks. She had to answer the 7 chapter review questions at the end of chapter 10 in her economics book. I think she actually ENJOYED answering the questions!:001_huh:

 

Maybe just some reading and discussion will lighten the load a bit for now.

:grouphug:

[Nan in Mass]

I do whole books. We work slowly aloud together so we don't do many every year. I'm not worried about covering everything. I never have been, perhaps because my own literature/history education skipped around quite a lot and I seem to have survived ok. I have seen my children grow so much using TWTM great books method that I am not at all tempted to do a more broad, survey-like course of literature. I don't give grades, so I don't worry about that. If I had to give a grade, I would probably give each book's paper/project a grade based mostly on the originality of the idea and how well the idea was supported, and each book's discussion a grade based on whether the child had interesting comments and/or questions about the book, and then average the whole lot together.

 

I am SO SO not an expert in this, so you might not want to take my word for anything, but here is an example - my 9th grader just did Gilgamesh. When we were discussing the theme, my mother said it was maturity, I said it was what makes us human, and after we had explained what we thought, my son said he thought it was friendship. He said that the friendship aspect of the story had always been emphasized in the children's versions he had read. Then he proceded to give his grandmother and me a nice set of reasons. We gave him lots of credit for disagreeing with us. While we were reading the book, he helped me untangle the plot when I got confused (I've never heard the story before). He did a great job reading it aloud. He made a few comments on whether he liked this bit or that bit, and he noticed one or two poetic bits and pointed them out to me. He paid attention and made a few comments while we read a good bit of the introduction, about where Gilgamesh came from and how it was translated. He said having a half-god teenage king with little self control, running amok, would definately be a problem for his people and he was impressed with their solution to the problem - give him a friend to suck up some of his energy. He commented briefly on the differences between the flood stories. He said Gilgamesh was stupid to be afraid of dieing. And he has chosen to write a short paper about why God/the gods need mankind. He came up with topic himself. That may not sound like much, but if I had to grade him, I'd give him an A because he obviously understood the book, thought about it, came up with some questions, and defended a few ideas successfully. I don't have anything to compare him to (except his brother), so I might not be expecting enough. I think he did very well for a 9th grade boy.

 

-Nan

Edited November 19, 2009 by Nan in Mass

[Lori D.]

my 9th grader just did Gilgamesh.... He made a few comments on whether he liked this bit or that bit, and he noticed one or two poetic bits and pointed them out to me. He paid attention and made a few comments while we read a good bit of the introduction, about where Gilgamesh came from and how it was translated. He said having a half-god teenage king with little self control, running amok, would definately be a problem for his people and he was impressed with their solution to the problem - give him a friend to suck up some of his energy. He commented briefly on the differences between the flood stories... And he has chosen to write a short paper about why God/the gods need mankind. He came up with topic himself...

 

Wonderful, Nan! Thank you so much for sharing this! What a tribute to your homeschooling and to your DS!

 

Our DSs are 17yo and almost 16yo, and only just now beginning to initiate comments, though this is year 3 of doing literature slowly, ala The Great Books. But because we've done them slowly and together, they do refer back to the works we've done when commenting about films, TV shows, other literature -- even life, sometimes -- because we digested the works slowly, and they are still there in the backs of their minds, simmering. ;)

[Nan in Mass]

Susan, I also want to say that I did something very similar to your test thing with my older one to speed up his writing. He had conniptions, but I did it anyway. It did indeed speed him up. I think you did the right thing. You probably will have to do it again a few times before it sticks, though. Parenting takes tons of energy. Teaching takes tons of energy. Put them together and we are bound to have bad days when we don't have enough energy to be patient.

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

One other thought - I used to worry because it seemed like my children should be able, in high school, to read their math book and just come to me when they had a problem. All I do is read the math book aloud and write out the example problems. Then I remembered that even in college, I had a teacher to work problems for me every day, and I learned math just fine, well enough that I can now read a math book to myself and figure it out. When I remembered that, I stopped worrying. I think it would be great if my children could do things on their own, but I decided not to worry too much if they couldn't. (Not that I don't think you are right about doing school for them while they watch. That wouldn't do at all. I'm just trying to help you not to worry too much.)

-Nan

[Susan C.]

Hi all,

Lori, sell the teens, ROFL!!!! I have teased friends that if we did that teen swap, that all of our problems would be solved (I would like to be under the table to see dd blast another mom... of course she wouldn't). Leaving doesn't work over here, the work stops or slows when I leave the house...

 

Nan, can you elaborate what you did with the writing? You mean time it? Here is how dd writes, one week for the assignment, first day, nothing, second-fourth day pondering what to write it about, last day, the blitz, all other school work aside and the paper happens (and is usually very good). Mixed bag, happy about the paper, but what about the rest of her work....

 

Pam, YES to perfectionist, to a fault!!!!

 

Here is her year:

 

Geometry: started with Chalkdust, after three months of her and I trudging through it, taking the entire afternoon, I ordered BJU. I am in the 30 day preview period, but it is going well (but we are doing things she supposedly has already learned in CD). This teacher breaks every day up evenly, goes over everything (more than once, plus a review before the test). She loves it, the pace is much slower and there is a lot more talking about each thing. I can completely step away with this, the teacher does it all!! We will look at something she hasn't done yet just to make sure, but it looks like this will help us and keep math from swallowing up a big chunk of the day.

 

Biology: she is doing a great online class. It is good for her, but it moves faster than she usually goes...translation, other classes get pushed out of the way so she can do more biology to keep up.

 

Literature: doing A Beka, they have good selections and do a good job of introducing literary elements, but their questions and tests sometimes (not always, but this month yes) are what we call a fact cram. That is why I did the test the way I did. I am wondering if I should cut some of this out in lieu of doing a few books with discussion using SparksNotes (but usually what happens is she just reads and we never discuss...).

 

Writing/Grammar: doing BJU

 

History: we have to do all of world history this year (10th grade), she will finish volume one of Streams of Civilization next month, we don't plan on doing volume two (don't like it). I will either transition her to BJU (last half of their book), or I am thinking about using Beautiful Feet US and World from Civil War to present. If I use the last semester this year, and all of next year (when I would be doing US), this could work. But, in reading whole books, you do miss a lot of details. But, I didn't remember anything of history that I did in high school, so with this, more would be remembered in lieu of doing less details.

 

Logic: doing Traditional Logic #1, she loves it, we are near the end, and I told her to take two weeks a chapter, or she ends up doing a lesson over a good chunk of the morning.

 

Spanish: beginning, watching Standard Deviants for now, no problem with this.

 

If there is anything obvious, or if there are suggestions so I can reclaim some of my/our day, I'm all ears!

 

Thanks again!

[Lori D.]

Lori, sell the teens, ROFL!!!!

 

I know, I know, it's a laughable idea -- who would BUY them??! :tongue_smilie:

 

Good to see you laughing! May tomorrow be a sunnier day. :D

[Greta Lea]

When he was doing the "read, then answer questions" programs. A few weeks ago we switched to using whole books for every subject (even science). We either orally discuss (I tell him to teach me what he learned that day or I preread what he read and we discuss) or he writes about it.

 

Also, I'm not taking grades. He's enjoying learning for the sake of learning.

[Nan in Mass]

You seem to be struggling with all the same things we struggled with. When my son took CC classes, he spent more time on them and less on the home things. Math took forever. And so forth. I never did find a way of making things take less time. My son just works slowly. It helped to make him sit at the kitchen counter, away from the comfort of his own space. I found that he didn't learn if we chopped things into small bits. For example, he didn't really learn to type until I got impatient (I managed not to tell him) and forced him to do it for an hour a day instead of ten minutes a day. He learned pretty quickly once I did that. With the writing, we had a spell where I was deliberately impatient. explained that we were going to work on speeding him up, even though the quality wouldn't be very good, then I talked him through what he was going to write, cutting short any possibly fruitful alternative ideas, interrupting ruthlessly, and saying over and over, "Just list some choices. Now choose one." Then, when he had a list of what he was going to write, I set the timer and made him see if he could write it out before the timer rang. Then I had him go back and fix it. He hated it. I hated it. But it did speed him up some, mostly by showing him that it was faster to put something, anything on paper and then fix it, then it was to try to write the whole thing in his head first and then write it down by writing one perfect sentence, then thinking up another perfect sentence, then thinking up another perfect sentence, and so on. He still prefers to write this way. He probably gets better results this way. But it there are lots of situations when it is fine to do a bad job. Sigh. Sometimes I wonder about this world.

-Nan

[Cedarmom]

I think your schedule sounds good. I think your daughter sounds like she would enjoy literature more if it was discussion based. Maybe write out a lesson plan for the book that includes discussions. Twice or three times you could schedule a discussion. I schedule the time of day we're going to discuss,we can flex it if necessary, but if we know at 11:00 we're going to discuss Chapter 1-3 it's more likely to happen then if I just say sometime we need to do the discussion.

 

High school is time consuming. It sounds like your daughter is actually accomplishing a lot. My son can dawdle too, and then tell me he doesn't have enough time.:tongue_smilie:I guess it is all part of learning to manage your time.