frustrated with outside class. writing, summary, worldview...struggling student

[Holly IN]

Hello

 

My 9th grader is struggling in his Worldview class that I am outsourcing. It is a small class of 9 students ranging from 9th to 12th graders. The teacher is a former homeschool mom. She was also an English teacher before kids with a master's degree.

 

Since September, he has taken this class one day a week with big loads of writing assignments. They just got done with the book called Total Truth. They had to summarize each parts of the book. There were 4 parts of the book with some parts having 3-4 chapters. It is a big heavy read even I had trouble with some aspects of the book. He got a D one of his summary reports and the rest C's. I truly feel that she is not grading based on his level but expects all to meet HER standards no matter what grade level you are in or where you are at in your writing. I told my son that summary is just a summarization of the chapters you read. Well the 1st report summary she deducted his grade drastically over no personal overview. HUH? HUH? HUH? I thought a summary is no personal viewpoints but just stating what the chapters/parts are about. Her idea of summary and my idea of summary are very two different things.

 

She told him the last time before this final report is due to do an outline then do your paragraphs to make the report. She also wants personal viewpoints.

 

I am scratching my head on this!!!!

 

Is the classical way of summarizing different than the traditional way of summarizing???

 

I have shown the report to a few people and they feel that she is grading based on his personal views rather than what the book is stated. So ggggggrrrrrr!!!!:glare::glare::glare:

 

What should I do? dh is concerned about this class due to the fact she is attacking my son on his religious views which is different than hers. So I am not sure if she is grading him because she disagrees with him on our religious belief (we believe baptism is necessary). I do not know if she is actually doing this on purpose or unknowingly doing this.

 

Several people of told me the teachers should always grade with the point of where the child is at.

 

This class will give ds credit in:

2 credits in Worldview

1 literature credit

2 composition credit

 

Well his composition grade is c- avg. So I am not happy about this turn of events.

 

dh thinks she is being maliscious in her grading. Again I am not sure if she is or not but it is looking that way.

 

She expects him to come up with these college level answers. She wrote stuff on his paperwork that I even didn't come up with in my reading of this book (total truth). Perhaps I am dumb and she is much smarter than I am. :glare:

 

Any thoughts? comments? What should I do?

 

or just :lurk5:

 

Holly

[Murphy101]

It should be clear what she wants. Somewhere. A summary can include a personal sentiment, but the assignment should clearly state such.

 

Have you read the assignments? If she doesn't give written assignments, where are your son's class notes?

 

Now that said, if she is asking for personal opinion - it can't be graded as wrong if it's given unless the assignment was to argue a certain perspective.

 

If after doing the above you feel your son received bad grade for disagreeing with the teacher - then I'd ask for a meeting with teacher and a coop leader to resolve the issue.

[periwinkle]

for a typical ninth grader. I had my son read Total Truth for his worldview/apologetics class (home-brewed) in 12th grade. It is a wonderful, thought-provoking book, but also definitely rigorous and dense. The summaries I assigned were just that-summaries of the material. I also had him write a more personal paper toward the end of our study.

 

I am sorry your son is having trouble with the class. I just wanted to conjecture that perhaps her standards are more in line with the capabilities of 11th-12th grade students.

Edited November 18, 2009 by periwinkle

[Holly IN]

To answer the question...

 

 

She has a listing of the assignments handed out.

 

The first report assignment was this:

 

Paper: What's in a Worldview? This is a summary of Part 1 of Total Truth. You need to address the following:

What is a worldview?

Does everyone have a worldview?

What are the fundamental worldview questions?

How does the Christian worldview answer the questions?

What are some reasons that Christians don't live out their worldview?

 

Your paper needs to have original title, an introduction, and a conclusion. It should be 6-10 paragraphs long.

 

2nd assignement:

paper: Creation vs. Evolution. This is a summary of part 2 of Total Truth.

You need to address the following:

Compare/Contrast/explain the basic beliefs of creationism, evolution and intellegent design

Why is this such an important issue to believers today?

Choose one "icon" of evolution (i.e. Darwin's finches, fruit flies, peppered moths, etc.) and explain the faulty reasoning IN YOUR OWN WORDS.

 

Your paper needs to have original title, an introduction, and a conclusion. It should be 6-10 paragraphs long.

 

 

3rd and last assignement for total truth

Paper: What's my worldview and why does it matter? Parts 3 and 4 of Total Truth deal with applying one's worldview in "real life". For this paper, please address the following:

What is my personal worldview?

Which 2 issues or aspects of our culture clash most with my worldview?

What specific ways can I see myself working to make changes in these areas?

 

Your paper needs to have original title, an introduction, and a conclusion. It should be 6-10 paragraphs long.

Then in the week before this assign. was due she said to the students to make sure they address the 7 questions in the Anchors Away curriculam in this paper report.

 

So this is the assignment she gave. Before the 2nd paper was due my son asked her for clarification on the summary. He asked her if she is wanting personal viewpoints. She very rudely told him that the answer is in his assignement book. I looked at it and the answer IS NOT THERE!!!!! gggrrrr!!!

 

So on the 2nd report she gave him a very bad grade D- because he didn't state his personal views. Do you see anywhere in this (creation vs evolution) report to state your personal views?

 

HTH

 

Holly

[TravelingChris]

I am a teacher at a coop and I also had my kids in two other co-ops over the years. I couldn't even imagine giving a grade of D- or getting one on a paper unless it didn't address the question at all or something like I ask for 5 pages and get 1. The instructions seem clear to me but if the teacher is judging on something other than the instructions, I think it is wrong.

 

Something that all the co-ops I was associated with stated was that the grades were suggestions and that the parents were the final teachers. The teachers were often called facilitators because for one thing, the classes usually meet only once a week and most work is done outside of class. I would talk with the teacher and then the co-op director. If I didn't get satisfaction, I would drop the class.

[Holly IN]

My dh and I read his paper. He did addressed the questions asked. The paper was 5 pages long. I did feel like he could have discussed several things more but it wasn't a D- paper though. I think it was more of a C+ or a B paper since he is a 9th grader. The C paper she gave him I felt he did a much better job and deserve a B instead of C. I think she is deducting a whole grade on each of his paper vs. me thinking he deserves a grade above that.

 

Holly

[Brenda in MA]

Holly,

 

Based on what you've said and how unhappy you seem with this teacher, it would seem to me that the best course of action would be to pull your son from the class. If it were me, I wouldn't want him to have to deal with this teacher for a year-long course. If he's putting in reasonable effort into the course, he is probably also very frustrated that he can't meet her seemingly unrealistic expectations. He's only in the 9th grade, and you wouldn't want him to get seriously discouraged about his writing. I personally also wouldn't want him to have to butt heads with someone of a different faith perspective over and over again all year when he's still quite young. This teacher really should be able to separate her own views from your son's when she is grading the papers, and grade him on how he states and supports his opinions; and not grade him on whether his opinions agree with hers.

 

My son, who is a freshman in college, has had a somewhat frustrating time this semester with a humanities course where the writing assignments were not clear, and the grading seems inconsistent. I've given him advice on and off, and he's gone to see the grader several times. He's finally gotten to a point that he understands what she's looking for and is doing OK. He's still not super happy about the situation, but at least the semester is nearly over, and he won't take another course from this prof again. He is also 18 yo and is more mature and more able to conclude that his bad experience in the class is due to their unclear requirements/inconsistent grading and not due to the fact that he's a bad writer or isn't putting time into the assignments.

 

These issues do happen where students either don't understand or have conflicts with instructors, and they need to learn to deal with them, but at 9th grade, IMHO, it might be asking too much. If he were in ps, you'd probably just have to live with the situation, but he's not and you have control over the situation and can make a change if you see fit.

 

You will probably loose some or all of the money you paid for the course, but it might just have to be the cost of the lesson learned. My vote is for cutting the ties with this teacher and moving on.

 

If you want him to continue with this topic for the rest of the year, and she's given you a syllabus, you could have him follow the syllabus with you directing his reading/writing.

 

Brenda

[Murphy101]

Hmm the closest I can get is to state some thing in his own words, which is really redundant because if it wasn't in his own words it would be quoted or paraphrased. Which is what I would think she meant. Iow, don't plagerize.

 

Also I wouldn't think she wanted personal opinion since she said to write about how it is false. That presumes their personal opinion is that it is false.

 

I don't have a problem with the assignment for a 9th grader.

I would have a problem with bad grading.

There should be more than a grade.

It should be very clear where expectation was not met on the paper and how they could have improved it.

Also there should be a grading rubric somewhere. So much off for however many grammar, mechanical, and missed assignment objectives.

 

Just my .02

and yet another reason I don't do academic coops.

[Holly IN]

hhhmmm perhaps I can ask for a rubric from her??

 

Holly

[Miss Marple]

perhaps I can ask for a rubric from her

 

Definitely do that! I have taught worldview classes for 6 years now (using Quine's material along with some other stuff) and I felt that I must have a grading rubric in order to keep myself on track as I grade. Grading essays can be very subjective so having a rubric forces the grader into more structure.

 

The way I handled personal/family doctrinal issues in my worldview class was to present the material (Calvinism, etc.) from the viewpoint of the curriculum. Then I tried to present other different viewpoints (esp. if I was not in agreement with the curriculum) and explain why/cite verses, etc. I also told the kids that they should discuss these points with their family - and then come to their own conclusions. Many of these worldview curriculums don't just focus on the "worldview questions" but they add in doctrine. That's not what I wanted - that is a family issue to me. But it was great to have the discussions about why various doctrines exist so that these high schoolers began to learn to think for themselves and ask why they believe what they believe.

 

If your son's teacher is trying to teach doctrine in a worldview class - doctrine that your student/family doesn't hold - then I think there is a problem. Especially if she is grading based on that doctrinal belief. I think you need to sit down with her, explain where you differ doctrinally and ask her what she can do about that. She may feel that the student should come to the point of embracing her view, or she may be totally floored that he is perceiving things the way he is. Either way, it will allow you to formulate a plan for your son.

 

Your son definitely needs to know what standards she is using for her grading. You might also try to see another student's essay, who scored well, and see how your ds's compares. It is difficult to grade a class the way we grade our individual students in our home. The teacher will and should have a continuum of scores (the old bell curve idea). In a group class, everyone should not be getting A's unless they all just happen to do very well on something. The standard is for the group; she can't have individual standards.

 

Definitely talk with the teacher. It isn't fair for your son to have to compete in this class when he is confused about the "rules".

 

Best wishes - I hate to see a student not have a positive experience with a worldview class.

[Ame E.]

sounds more like an upper high school type class.

 

if you/he is unhappy, I too would consider pulling him out.

 

Ame

[Julie in MN]

Holly,

I'm thinking I, too, would withdraw. And I'd appeal to the organizing group for a major portion refund.

Either way, she's doing poorly at teaching! She's supposed to be "teaching" him how to do these things, not just "demanding."

And after all, he's just a 9th grader -- 9th grade was still junior high in my day! (And I might start with a 1 credit class, rather than 5?)

 

However, I thought I'd throw one idea out there.

 

As far as "opinion" vs. "summary," everything I've been hearing lately says that high school level writing should always have a "position." It doesn't mean the student agrees with the position, but the student is to have something to "say" about what he read -- to justify reading the student's paper and not just reading the book he read.

 

I recently attended a Stobaugh conference and I've been reading a lot of MCT, and this is a common point. If you read this article, maybe it is what she's trying to get at.

(see the 4-part list on page 3) http://www.rfwp.com/samples/about-research-papers.pdf

 

Julie

Edited November 18, 2009 by Julie in MN

[Brigid in NC]

My heart goes out to you.

 

If you can structure an alternative, I would seriously consider pulling out. Once you have determined all the alternatives, I would ask your ds to discuss the options with you, and come to a joint decision. If you pull out, you will want to make sure your ds doesn't think he has "failed." You also don't want your ds to see you as a safety net every time. It sounds like this warrants a "reset."

 

No co-op I've been in has graded this way (and my kids have been in lots). It doesn't sound to me like your ds is being evaluated on a 9th grade level. In co-ops my kids have participated in -- with multiple grade/ages -- the grading has always factored in the grade-level of the student (with a beginning baseline -- and looking for improvement when it comes to composition). I'd ask yourself 1.) whether your ds is really learning, 2.) how much YOU are involved in the "outside" class, and 3.) whether the angst is really worth it.

 

I wish you peace and a clarity.

~Brigid

[SheWhoWaits]

I'd definitely pull him. But there was a reason you signed him up for the class. It must have sounded like something you wanted him to learn. So I'd teach the same material to him at home that he was going to get in that class. Obviously you will be more fair than that teacher at the co-op.

[Nan in Mass]

Thank you for the site, Julie. I have worked most of this out for myself in a muddled, instinctive sort of way, but it was nice to see it spelled out.

[Miss Marple]

I'm rather surprised about the comments of the course being too hard for a 9th grader. The assignment listings are typical of what is required in my class and we've had a mix of 9-12th graders. I, personally, would have a very difficult time doing individual grading, i.e., grading each student differently based on each students level. This is because I haven't homeschooled the kids and do not know what each is capable of. Some of the 9th graders I've had are better writers than some of the 12th graders. If you look at Quine's World Views of the Western World, I think you'll see very similar assignments - some are probably even more complex. And his program is used by many 9th graders and the crediting is very similar to the one your son is involved in.

 

Now what I do before parents sign their kids up is to present the level of writing that I require. The student should be able to write a very good essay by the time they take my class. I am not teaching "essay writing", I'm teaching WorldViews. If the student is not able to meet those standards, he should not enroll in my course. I try to be very upfront with the parents about my requirements. I *do* grade on essay construction as well as content, but I don't "teach" basic essay writing.

 

I would hesitate to assume the class is too hard. Instead I would recommend you discuss with the teacher her expectations of writing level as well as doctrinal issues. Many homeschoolers who outsource for the first time are often surprised at what others require - which is why its very important to know upfront what level of expertise is required.

 

Just as an aside, we had a lady whose daughter decided she wanted to be homeschooled for her senior year. She had been public schooled up to that time and was considered a straight A student. She enrolled her daughter in my worldviews class and expected that her daughter would have NO problem because of her "straight A" status in public school. The young lady did not read the material (it made her sad to read that type of material), did not pass a test, and had absolutely no ability to write even a basic 5 paragraph essay. Her writing was unorganized, devoid of meaningful content, had no evidence of critical thinking, and appeared to just be random thoughts (or plagiarized material) written down with paragraphing occurring where it looked best (rather than using grammatical rules). And her mother was offended that I required more than her daughter was able to give. She had similar problems in all her other classes in our co-op also. I heard through the grapevine that she told another mom she was shocked at how hard homeschool co-op classes were.

 

If this is a class you want for your son, talk with the teacher and get some detailed recommendations on what he needs to do to be successful in her class. If you don't think he can perform to that level, then move him out.

[Miss Marple]

OK, I just re-read the credits she is giving. How is she assigning 2 credits for Worldviews and 2 credits for Composition? Is this a multi-year course? Or do they really get 2 credits per year for each of these? If that is so, I think she's got a crediting problem. That will look very strange on a transcript...

[periwinkle]

I'm rather surprised about the comments of the course being too hard for a 9th grader.

 

Just curious, Cynthia, if you have read Total Truth? My comment was based more on the actual book itself, rather than the writing assignment. *I* had a tough time digesting that book. Of course, now I am feeling exceptionally stupid (not unusual on this forum!)

[Julie in MN]

If this is a class you want for your son, talk with the teacher and get some detailed recommendations on what he needs to do to be successful in her class. If you don't think he can perform to that level, then move him out.

 

But Cynthia, her son did ask the teacher for more clarification about "summary" vs. opinions (see Holly's second post) and was referred back to a piece of paper with no help.

 

And about your second post, I'd assume she's giving semester credits, which is very common where I live.

Julie

[Miss Marple]

I have not read that book since we are using Quine's materials as a jumping board. We do read a lot of Francis Schaeffer works which are no easy reads. And the kids get it on a certain level; maybe not the level I get it or someone who is a Schaeffer scholar. I have heard that Total Truth is taught in many high school level world view courses.

 

I'm not sure that any high schooler will totally digest and understand all of these works and their nuances. And the grading as well as the assignments should be geared toward the high school level. If it is a 9th grade worldview class, then perhaps apply lower standards than a 12th grade class. But in my multi-grade classes, there is such a mix of ability that applying different standards for each student would be chaotic.

 

Do you think Total Truth is more difficult than many of the Great Books recommended in TWTM?

Edited November 18, 2009 by CynthiaOK

[Miss Marple]

I'd assume she's giving semester credits,

 

Oh, that makes sense.

 

From my own experience as a teacher in a co-op, students often report conversations to the parent very differently than the teacher would report. So....that's why I think it is important for the mother to get the information "from the horse's mouth" so to speak. And, I can pretty well guarantee that the teacher would be very grateful to have a chance to defend her position or explain her requirements. If the teacher is unapproachable by the parent, by all means move on. There is no point in trying to deal with someone who isn't interested in your child's success.

[Julie in MN]

Thank you for the site, Julie. I have worked most of this out for myself in a muddled, instinctive sort of way, but it was nice to see it spelled out.

 

Yes, I'm finding MCT says several things I've been muddling through trying to say to ds. Glad it was helpful!

[Holly IN]

 

 

 

Do you think Total Truth is more difficult than many of the Great Books recommended in TWTM?

 

The Schafer books are easier to read and digest than the "Total Truth". Also it is harder than the some of the Great Books!!

 

Now about the credit. Our credits here in Indiana is set up differently. We are on the Core 40 system.

 

So the composition credit will go with English, Worldview will go with either Extra Curricular or Bible, Literature will go with English.

 

This is not a semester credit. This is a full year credit. Also in Indiana it is 2 credits for English instead of one per year and so on.

 

 

 

Holly

[Miss Marple]

Was this class offered as a multi-grade course? Did the instructor hand out a book list at the beginning of the year? Many of the texts our students read are hard reads - Nancy Pearcy is a Francis Schaeffer Scholar so I'm assuming the content of her book is similar to his books - but the students have the advantage of having someone "teach" it to them as well as reading it. Not all 9th graders will do well in a course this rigorous which is why I ask that the parents preview the texts we will be using to see if they fit their student. And I've had many who are interested who decide that their students cannot handle the reading. And I've had some who really want the course and figure that they will be satisfied with whatever grade their student gets. I think it's similar to AP level courses in that while they may be available to students, not all students can handle the rigor nor should they attempt it.

 

I would be concerned if the teacher has not clearly stated her expectations to the parents. And I would definitely withdraw him if the content of the material is too hard and he has no chance of success. At the same time, though, I would weigh the advantages with the disadvantages. Is he learning the material on a level you are satisfied with? Is this a course you *really* want him to have? I always tell my parents that they will assign a final grade. If they feel the essay was a fantastic essay for that student, they can change my grade or toss it in the wastebasket :) I remember being astonished at the grading scale for Singapore Math. If I remember correctly, anything from about mid 70's and up was an A! One of my ds's university courses used a similar scale. A course of this rigor should probably have a similar grading scale. I assign percentages and let the mom determine whether it's an A, B, or whatever. Most co-op classes I know grade on a group level rather than individual levels. But you as the mom will be grading your son on an individual level without regard to the grades of the other students. If you think your son's paper met the requirements and was a good paper for his level, change the grade.

 

I'm not trying to discourage you, but just trying to give you the view from the other side (that of a teacher in a co-op). I've had my own kids receive grades in classes that I felt were not fair, too. My oldest was told he had problems writing a good paper by his teacher yet he was asked to publish one he wrote for freshman comp. - go figure. Try to keep your son encouraged especially if he is giving his best and check with his teacher to make sure you and your son both understand what he needs to do. Best wishes!

[Holly IN]

Thanks to ALL of you for giving me advice. Yes even you Cynthia... :D

 

Ok ds just received his last paper grade. I truly feel it was a B paper but the grade is 76%. She said it is a MUCH BETTER paper but she only gave him 3 points better than the last one. I am very disturbed by two comments she made which I felt had NOTHING to do with his paper. One comment is about theology. I do not believe that this class is theology based. I am not sure if she deducted his grade because of her disagreement with my ds on his theology which he did back up with scripture. She didn't like the indication that there is a HELL and people will burn in hell. So I am perturbed by that one. She also stated that she disagreed with him on his what should a person do to get into heaven. This is NOT an opinion paper!!!!! This is a personal paper about their worldview. sigh!!

 

I am not sure what to do. I really want to email her about her two comments. My ds wants me to stay out of it. He wants to stay in class for sure. However he said he is a failure. What kind of teacher is she to discourage my son this way???? 2 other students got it worse than he did. So not sure what their paper looks like.

 

My dh is livid. He felt that when he read it, it was a B paper.

 

If it is a MUCH BETTER paper then it should have been a B. His last paper was 72% but this time it is 76%,

 

:001_huh: much better??

 

I am just venting here guys. Just need to get this out and off my chest.

 

I am going to have a friend of mine look at it (she is a classical educator and thinks my son is SMART and GREAT!!).

 

Another friend of mine read it (we do not agree theology wise) and she felt the two comments the teacher made was OUT OF LINE. She said that those two comments should have never been made as it is not part of the class.

 

oh well....

 

thanks for listening....

 

Holly

[Miss Marple]

She said it is a MUCH BETTER paper but she only gave him 3 points better than the last one. I am very disturbed by two comments she made which I felt had NOTHING to do with his paper. One comment is about theology.

 

Now that's just stinky :glare: I'd be upset, too. Your son is NOT a failure! She really needs to return the essay with a grading rubric attached. Sorry your son is going through this.

[Holly IN]

hhhmmmm

 

dh wants to pull him out. Ds said no he wants to stay in. :glare:

 

So he is staying in and wants me to either throw out the credits and do credits for real at home using TOG and use the outsource Worldview for enjoyment of discussions.

 

I told him that is double the work with no credits on the Worldview. He said he really doesn't care as he is a failure to the teacher's eyes.

 

My dh said that she is a professor not a teacher. :glare: I agree.....buttttt kwim??

 

So he is staying put for now and we will continue with TOG full fledge from here on out and may throw out the Worldview credits (all of it). This is what ds wants.

 

 

I will have a close friend who is a classical educator look over his reports and give me her opinion. He did take her online paragraphs class. She gave him all A's and threw one grade out because all the students didn't understand the assignment. She threw that out for all of the students in her online course. She really likes my son and said he has great potential. Two very different opinions.

 

I will keep you all posted. The next assignement is reading Screwtape letters and they have to turn in 1-2 sentence summary of each letter. :D

 

Talk to you all next week!!

 

Holly