Saille Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I am thinking back to a recent thread about what Latin program we use for self-ed. I said I voted for Henle. However, I'm recanting. I don't like it. I don't like flipping between the grammar book and the text. I hate that they teach all five declensions in a row. The third declension is kicking my butt and I keep studying it over and over and over. It's not going in. I hate not having an easily accessible master vocabulary list, like Lively Latin does for my son. I am considering just working ahead in ds8's Lively Latin, and purchasing the second BB early if I need it. But, I'm open to suggestions. Basically, I need an incremental and *very clearly structured and formatted* program. And Henle is not doing it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tressa Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 The third declension is kicking my butt too. Fortunately, my son is not having the same problem that I am. He was helping me yesterday. Do you have the Mother of Divine Grace syllabus? I have copied the declension charts and slipped page protectors over them and now I write out the declensions and then just leave it out for my translations. Even though I have the First and Second declensions down pat, I still like to refer to it. It is much better than flipping through the grammar book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saille Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 I don't, and a basic search isn't yielding it. Do you have a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in MO Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Memoria Press has a complete list of Henle vocabulary at this link. If you go to this page on their website you can join the Henle Latin Yahoo groups for study purposes. I agree that going back and forth between the Grammar book and Henle I can be a problem. Wheelock's (and I'm sure many other programs) is all included in one volume; however, I still found myself going back and forth in the text. It became my next best friend! Wheelock's does have a comprehensive vocabulary list, but it only contained the vocabulary introduced at the beginning of each chapter, and usually not the vocabulary introduced in the readings. I started making up my own computer file, which helped with those extra vocabulary words. However, Wheelock's has many more vocabulary words than Henle, so Henle might give you the same grammar benefit without as many vocabulary words. My only suggestion would be to keep practicing the 3rd declension over and over again; if you practice it a number of times aloud daily (say, perhaps 10 times aloud every day) and then keep working on the exercises through Henle, eventually it will sink in. Good luck! (Or, bonam fortunam!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole M Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 You can purchase the MODG syllabus here: http://www.acbooks.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ACB&Product_Code=MG25x7ju We would have died without it. FWIW, however, my son still hates Henle, though. "Those poor Gauls!" If I could do it over, I would definitely go with Latin for the New Millennium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saille Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 You know, this mostly came to a head b/c I am finally able to afford a Greek program for myself. I've been mucking around with older, fairly dense, free online texts, and it's just not terribly productive. I am so relieved to be getting Elementary Greek and doing something small but cumulative each day. That's really what I want out of a Latin program. Maybe repeating declensions to myself over and over will achieve the same effect...but I would just love something that was very broken down and incremental. If I wanted to work through a big load of it at once, great. But I wouldn't feel like I *had* to have a long time to spend, or I couldn't do anything. That's how I'm feeling about Henle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in MO Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 You know, this mostly came to a head b/c I am finally able to afford a Greek program for myself. I've been mucking around with older, fairly dense, free online texts, and it's just not terribly productive. I am so relieved to be getting Elementary Greek and doing something small but cumulative each day. That's really what I want out of a Latin program. Maybe repeating declensions to myself over and over will achieve the same effect...but I would just love something that was very broken down and incremental. If I wanted to work through a big load of it at once, great. But I wouldn't feel like I *had* to have a long time to spend, or I couldn't do anything. That's how I'm feeling about Henle. I can understand your frustration; I wish I could offer you more help with information on other programs that would be more incremental in nature. I've only used Matin Latin and Latina Christiana at the elementary level, and Henle and Wheelock's at the high school/college level. Hopefully someone will chime in with information on a Latin program that will be similar to Elementary Greek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole M Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 You know, this mostly came to a head b/c I am finally able to afford a Greek program for myself. I've been mucking around with older, fairly dense, free online texts, and it's just not terribly productive. I am so relieved to be getting Elementary Greek and doing something small but cumulative each day. That's really what I want out of a Latin program. Maybe repeating declensions to myself over and over will achieve the same effect...but I would just love something that was very broken down and incremental. If I wanted to work through a big load of it at once, great. But I wouldn't feel like I *had* to have a long time to spend, or I couldn't do anything. That's how I'm feeling about Henle. I totally get this! I wish there were a Latin program that had exactly the same format as E.G. I love that program. I love how it's broken down, I love the format of the text, the font, everything. (I have been known to ditch a program because I hated the font. True confession.) The MODG syllabus breaks down the Henle material in a very do-able way, with drill sheets, quizzes, etc., so that you know exactly what material you need to cover each day and each week. I think it would solve your issue if you were not interested in jumping ship entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinteach Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Third declension is going to be challenging, no matter what, especially for those of you using grammar-based programs. First and second declension seem so orderly and then comes along the third declension, where you can't tell just by looking at it what gender it is, or if it is an i-stem, etc. Third declension adjectives are crazy too, because there are adjectives with three terminations, two terminations, and one termination. Third declension nouns and adjectives can be very challenging. Fortunately, fourth and fifth declension are really just a matter of vocabulary, as there aren't many of them and they are easy to recognize and deal with. Reading-based programs generally make you deal with the third declension straight away and try to make you less dependent on the charts, but can be confusing at first. It's not necessarily the textbook that is the problem here. It's that third declension is hard. So you keep on working at it and try to do as much reading as you can that involves the third declension so you can see it in action. Third declension takes time and practice. Edited October 27, 2009 by latinteach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Third declension is going to be challenging, no matter what, especially for those of you using grammar-based programs. First and second declension seem so orderly and then comes along the third declension, where you can't tell just by looking at it what gender it is, or if it is an i-stem, etc. Third declension adjectives are crazy too, because there are adjectives with three terminations, two terminations, and one termination. Third declension nouns and adjectives can be very challenging. Fortunately, fourth and fifth declension are really just a matter of vocabulary, as there aren't many of them and they are easy to recognize and deal with. Reading-based programs generally make you deal with the third declension straight away and try to make you less dependent on the charts, but can be confusing at first. It's not necessarily the textbook that is the problem here. It's that third declension is hard. So you keep on working at it and try to do as much reading as you can that involves the third declension so you can see it in action. Third declension takes time and practice. Ok, you all are scaring me. :eek: We will be starting the third declension in a couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinteach Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Ok, you all are scaring me. :eek: We will be starting the third declension in a couple of weeks. Well, it's not easy, but it's not impossible either. Just don't think too hard and work on it gradually. Try to do lots of readings with the third declension. You'll be fine.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saille Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 I totally get this! I wish there were a Latin program that had exactly the same format as E.G. I love that program. I love how it's broken down, I love the format of the text, the font, everything. (I have been known to ditch a program because I hated the font. True confession.) The MODG syllabus breaks down the Henle material in a very do-able way, with drill sheets, quizzes, etc., so that you know exactly what material you need to cover each day and each week. I think it would solve your issue if you were not interested in jumping ship entirely. I'm going to take a serious look at it. I feel guilty about ditching Henle, but you just nutshelled exactly how I'm feeling. First and second declension seem so orderly and then comes along the third declension, where you can't tell just by looking at it what gender it is, or if it is an i-stem, etc. YES! I work so hard to get time to myself to do this, and I just end up reviewing Lesson 3 over and over and over again. By the time I'm ready to move on, a kid wakes up, or my "break" is over. Fortunately, fourth and fifth declension are really just a matter of vocabulary, as there aren't many of them and they are easy to recognize and deal with. Thank Maude for small favors! I did do all this in High School, but it's been a looong time since Mr. Roselli's class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in MO Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Ok, you all are scaring me. :eek: We will be starting the third declension in a couple of weeks. Don't be scared. I'm still quite a notice, but one good thing about the noun declensions is that you will begin to recognize patterns. For instance, most of the accusative cases end in -m. The nominative and accusative forms of all neuter nouns are always identical. I think also that the dative and ablative plural forms of all nouns are identical. I think recognizing these patterns is helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfamily Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 This is exactly where dd and I noticed we were getting stuck (3rd declension) while doing Henle last year. We floundered around and just couldn't get the retention I knew we needed. We switched to First Form Latin and it has been exactly what we needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinteach Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 There are a lot of drills here to help you memorize the forms of the third declension. http://www.quia.com/shared/latin/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacalm Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I didn't want to give up either with Henle with ds. We started when he was in 5th grade but I just kept on plugging along. He's now in 8th gr. and finally finishing Henle 1. The 3rd declension was hard after going through the relatively easy 1st and 2nd. I did what I do when my kids hits an invisible wall; practice, drills, more drills, practice, and lots of copying of the endings until they scream it in their dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphabetika Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Interesting re: Elementary Greek - my middle dd uses this and I've found myself thinking, These people should write a Latin program in this format! I love the font, too. :tongue_smilie: But I especially love how "bite-size" the lessons are, and how easy it is to fit it into a normal week. If someone were to write a Latin curriculum like this, I think there would be a cry of rejoicing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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