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language lessons vs first language lessons


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#1 quenepa

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 10:07 PM

This is my first year hs and I am looking to what is going to be after our phonics program. I have and am comparing LLTL and FLL. Is anyone else using LLTL? Pros/Cons. To me it seems a little milder than FLL and that would be good for my ds (6 yo). It also seems to combine FLL & WWE. Just looking for thoughts on the matter before we finish our phonics program.
Thanks,
quenepa mama
ds 6
dd 1

Edited by quenepa, 18 September 2009 - 10:07 PM.
forgot to end


#2 Lovedtodeath

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 10:09 PM

What does LLTL stand for? :001_huh:

#3 kiana

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 10:12 PM

llatl?

#4 TwinMominTX

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 07:05 AM

Perhaps Learning Language Arts Through Literature?

#5 quenepa

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 11:35 AM

It stands for Language Lessons through Literature by Kathy Jo Devore. Sorry about the confusion.

#6 Lovedtodeath

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 11:43 AM

It stands for Language Lessons through Literature by Kathy Jo Devore. Sorry about the confusion.

Okay! :) I am not familiar with that one... I hope someone else is!

#7 siloam

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 12:55 PM

This is my first year hs and I am looking to what is going to be after our phonics program. I have and am comparing LLTL and FLL. Is anyone else using LLTL? Pros/Cons. To me it seems a little milder than FLL and that would be good for my ds (6 yo). It also seems to combine FLL & WWE. Just looking for thoughts on the matter before we finish our phonics program.
Thanks,
quenepa mama
ds 6
dd 1


I will take a stab at it, but it will be based on what I know about Ruth Beechick philosophy and not LLATL specifically. I never used that specific program, but used SL and Bravewriter LA as well as owning almost every RB book published.

FLL is oral work mostly focusing on grammar. It will includes some copywork and some narration, though that is not the focus. The focus is learning grammar definitions, days of the week, days of the month, some usage (when to use a and when to use an) that sort of thing. FLL is scripted telling you exactly what to say and what the child's ideal response is. I tend to skip over a lot of the scripting, but now and then especially with the usage parts I really like having the support.

LLATL is a full LA program. It includes copy work/dictation, light grammar work that will usually focus more on palindromes, synonyms, antonyms and rhyming work in the early grades. RB tends to always be light on grammar. Writing usually is more on the creative side, which the philosophy of FLL would say is developmentally inappropriate. It should also include narrations. I have heard that LLATL is better than other RB LA programs at having explanations and a logical sequence to things, but there is a potential that it might feel random and not give detailed explanations of how to teach creative writing, for example. I don't believe it is scripted like FLL and WWE.

Long term these differences continue. WWE (Writing With Ease) is the writing program that goes with FLL, you just drop the narrations and copywork in FLL. From a philosophical point of view these two will emphasize copywork, dictation and narration. The focus of the writing is to have the child retell stories and not come up with original content. The physical act of writing and thinking is also separated, so the parent writes the narration out for the child then the child either does it as copywork or as dictation till 4th grade. Grammar with diagramming is emphasized in FLL and WWE as a tool to be able to write properly. Dictation is seen as a tool to learn to hold thoughts in your head, so they gradually build to longer sentences, or multiple sentences. This is to help with remembering thoughts for writing and for note taking during lectures.

Ruth Beechick is very light on grammar, usually recommending you only cover it a year in Jr. High and a year in High School. The philosophy is that by reading a lot of great books the child will develop an "ear" for good writing and naturally write that way. She says you can find a lot of students who are good at grammar and horrible writers, and you can find good writers who naturally have an ear for grammar without being able to formally identify it. The emphasis is on creative writing, the same sort of writing they generally are reading, though narration is also used. Dictation and copywork are also seen as tools to teach spelling, proper punctuation, listening skills and handwriting. Many RB fans don't use formal spelling programs but do dictation only (some still add formal spelling programs). Writing for the child is also encouraged if needed.

I personally use both. I like the relaxed approach in the early years of RB, but then in 2nd grade I start FLL 1 and WWE 1 and continue classical philosophy from there out. RB I think can work for the latter grades, but for it to really work, to take advantage of teachable moments I think the teacher needs to have a mastery of grammar and English that I just don't have. A teachable moment would come up and all I could say is, "I don't' know." I could probably get away doing only RB with my ds (except the writing I don't think creative writing is appropriate for young children) but I have gotten used to the scripts in FLL and WWE. They are just so easy to use. :D

One last disclaimer. Each LA built on RB philosophy has it own unique twists, so there may be ways in which LLATL doesn't match up to what I have said about RB methods.

Heather




#8 quenepa

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 04:59 PM

:w00t:
Thanks for all of the info!


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