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I am posting this here because although it is a college-y question, it is not a formal college question, and many of you also have kids at the CC.

 

DD has a Chinese teacher this year who is not only making totally inappropriate comments to her, but unfairly grading her.

 

The comments are humiliating. If it were me, I would have totally exploded on the teacher, but the grades are the worrisome part. She has told DD that she takes of 2 points for every mistake, which is fine. DD has two graded homework assignments that are marked 70%, but only 3 or 5 mistakes. Not only that, she has marked things off on her homework that she has not marked off of other people's (DD has asked around).

 

An example of an inappropriate comment was today's assignment that was an oral presentation of your family. Previously, DD asked her if she could include her grandparents in the presentation. The teacher told her no, only your mom, dad and siblings. She said she didn't have any siblings, or a father. The teacher very loudly told her she that of course she has a father, and must include him in the picture. FF to today, she has a picture of me, her and Shakespeare. She made her presentation and teacher told her she probably will fail because she didnt have enough family members, and didn't have a real picture of her father! DD tells her she hasnt seen him in over 10 years, and she said dd should still have a picture of him. She told her this while she was still up there in front of the whole class. WTF? Sorry, but seriously? She had specifically asked if she could include more and then made certain she followed the assignment exactly. Another time she was humiliated for knowing some words that were accidentally Cantonese (her last coach spoke Mandarin and Cantonese). The teacher told her, "don't waste our time with made-up words."

 

So the question is, do these things satisfy the requirement of making a formal complaint to someone? Would she begin at the department chair? What exactly is the college hierarchy? Do you think that this will make it worse for her in the long run? I told her she should at least confront the teacher about the wrong grades, first. I am so distraught over this because DD really, really, really wanted to learn Mandarin, and this teacher is making her hate it.

 

Thank you for listing (reading) this question-that-was-a-rant-in-disguise:blushing:

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Long story short-drop the class immediately.

 

Nothing you can say or do will change the situation for the better. It will only get worse. Complain till the cows come home-college professors will just smile then screw you over when it comes grading time.

 

You have completely legitimate concerns and issues. However, your dd has evidently ticked the professor off and all I can see is vengeance coming down the pike.

 

Had this been a mandatory class for a college major, you dd should have followed the instructors instructions to the letter. Find some fake pictures and pretend that they are the family. But, by choosing to use Shakespeare as her father (which I find funny, yet inappropriate), she mocked the professor-publicly.

 

And-yes, yes, the professor is a dufus. Yet, I see no other recourse than to drop the course. Next time, go along to get along. Tough life lesson!

Holly

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ITA with Holly about dropping the course asap; do that first because there's probably zero probability that she could "reset" in the situation you describe. Is it too late in the term to change sections/instructors?

 

You might also talk with your daughter about how this might have come about. Does the instructor know she's been checking with other students on grading? Could she have said something that was misunderstood or taken the wrong way? Is there, perhaps, a language/cultural barrier about which your dd is unaware or lacking in experience? Has she tried to have other assignments/requirements changed?

 

I'd be cautious about making a formal complaint, and would read the CC policy before contacting anyone in student affairs or the dean's office. Students do make unfounded complaints against instructors, so unless there have been other complaints the dean will probably give the instructor the benefit of the doubt. OTOH, if this person has been mistreating other students making a complaint could help the next "victim".

 

How old is your dd? Honestly, I'd give her some of the same advice that Holly mentioned in her post. Things like that happen; it's part of the college experience.

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I am posting this here because although it is a college-y question, it is not a formal college question, and many of you also have kids at the CC.

 

DD has a Chinese teacher this year who is not only making totally inappropriate comments to her, but unfairly grading her.

 

The comments are humiliating. If it were me, I would have totally exploded on the teacher, but the grades are the worrisome part. She has told DD that she takes of 2 points for every mistake, which is fine. DD has two graded homework assignments that are marked 70%, but only 3 or 5 mistakes. Not only that, she has marked things off on her homework that she has not marked off of other people's (DD has asked around).

 

An example of an inappropriate comment was today's assignment that was an oral presentation of your family. Previously, DD asked her if she could include her grandparents in the presentation. The teacher told her no, only your mom, dad and siblings. She said she didn't have any siblings, or a father. The teacher very loudly told her she that of course she has a father, and must include him in the picture. FF to today, she has a picture of me, her and Shakespeare. She made her presentation and teacher told her she probably will fail because she didnt have enough family members, and didn't have a real picture of her father! DD tells her she hasnt seen him in over 10 years, and she said dd should still have a picture of him. She told her this while she was still up there in front of the whole class. WTF? Sorry, but seriously? She had specifically asked if she could include more and then made certain she followed the assignment exactly. Another time she was humiliated for knowing some words that were accidentally Cantonese (her last coach spoke Mandarin and Cantonese). The teacher told her, "don't waste our time with made-up words."

 

So the question is, do these things satisfy the requirement of making a formal complaint to someone? Would she begin at the department chair? What exactly is the college hierarchy? Do you think that this will make it worse for her in the long run? I told her she should at least confront the teacher about the wrong grades, first. I am so distraught over this because DD really, really, really wanted to learn Mandarin, and this teacher is making her hate it.

 

Thank you for listing (reading) this question-that-was-a-rant-in-disguise:blushing:

 

 

If this course is not required and it isn't too late to drop/change schedule... I would switch to another teacher or drop the course like a hot potato. For some reason this teacher feels threatened by your Dd (IMO) and there is nothing your Dd can do to make the situation better for herself.

 

Maybe she can talk to an advisor (maybe a professor who really is supportive and encouraging in your Dd to succeed) and ask for his/her advice.

 

She could place a formal complaint (or you can if she is a minor). She will need classmates who will back up her claim for the inappropriate remarks...and that could be a problem if the other students don not want to rock the boat and mess up their grades. I am thinking that this won't be the professor's first complaint placed against her. The grading issue is more obvious and she may not need other students to back her up.

 

The Momma Bear in me would have me up in this professor's face... in front of the rest of the class!!!!

 

I had a professor at a CC who was teaching a 1st semester English course and he was a journalism teacher. It was a summer course that only lasted 8 weeks. By the 5th week not one of our assignments were according to the school syllabus and none were graded and returned to the students. The class as a whole complained to the English dept chair and she finishted teaching the semester. She also gave us the option to repeat the semester again for free without the first course on our transcripts. But this was something that was happening to a class of 30 students and so I am thinking what else could the school do but correct the situation.

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Thank you guys for this, I do appreciate it. Other opinions are invaluable.

 

 

Find some fake pictures and pretend that they are the family. But, by choosing to use Shakespeare as her father (which I find funny, yet inappropriate), she mocked the professor-publicly.

 

I feel like a total idiot because I should have realized this. I should have made her use some picture of a random man. It must have been my mommy feelings preventing me from seeing how ridiculous this was and probably made the situation so much worse.

 

 

You might also talk with your daughter about how this might have come about. Does the instructor know she's been checking with other students on grading? Could she have said something that was misunderstood or taken the wrong way? Is there, perhaps, a language/cultural barrier about which your dd is unaware or lacking in experience? Has she tried to have other assignments/requirements changed?

 

Sadly, it has been like this since the second day of class, once the teacher found out dd was younger than her own son. Based on the comments she makes, I really think that it is her own mothering instincts gone wrong with the added problems of cultural differences. However, not being there, I don't know if she is purposefully trying to ridicule her out of spite, or if it just comes across that way. DD has never tried to have any other assignments changed before, and only asked to look at her (deskmate's? Is that a word?) homework for the right answers, there was no big production about it. At the very least, this will be a lesson in lying - there is a time and place.

 

She does not want to drop the class (i think she feels guilty about the $$), and it is the only section/instructor, but I agree it will not get better. Could I at least sue teacher for tuition reimbursement? That was a joke. Sort of:lol: Stupid CO and it's expensive tuition!

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Get out -- those grades will follow her for a long time.

 

I agree, the prof's being a jerk. The Shakespeare really wasn't a good idea though. If she'd just given a picture of her mother and talked a lot about one person, she'd have grounds to file a discrimination complaint against the prof.

 

ETA: It may be better to be evasive about her age in future if at all possible. Sometimes people feel very threatened by younger students.

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Sadly, it has been like this since the second day of class, once the teacher found out dd was younger than her own son.

I am not sure if you are reasoning right here, as I do not want automatically assume such way.

 

It may be better to be evasive about her age in future if at all possible. Sometimes people feel very threatened by younger students.

Again, I am not sure if you have to feel that way. You may not be right. My children's experience is quite opposite.

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A couple more thoughts...

 

I agree that there might come a time when your dd will regret having a low grade on her transcript; it will be awkward and something that she'll probably have to explain down the road.

 

About the possibility of cultural differences, I can think of a couple of things that might be part of the problem. Take this with the proverbial grain of salt because this is coming from my own limited experience. When I was in grad school, I heard a fair amount of complaining from fellow teaching assistants who had been schooled in Taiwan or Hong Kong before coming to the U.S. about what they perceived as the lack of respect given to them in particular and teachers in general by the typical American student. They complained about things that didn't seem in any way disrespectful to me.

 

I'm wondering, too, if what looks like inappropriate humor might not be a manifestation of the instructor's discomfort arising from her own painful awareness of the language and cultural barriers between her and her students coupled with an intense desire to do a good job in the classroom. Anyhow, I am too ready sometimes to give people the benefit of the doubt. It might be that the woman is obtuse and rude by any standards and not worth any more of your daughter's time.

 

So, I've given my two cents worth and now another two on top of that. I hope this works out in a way that's good for your daughter.

 

Martha

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I teach at a CC. Different state, so you'll have slightly different hierarchies, but given the situtation you've described, I'd recommend your daughter talking to the department chair. You do not want to jump levels, but I don't think anything will be gained by talking with the professor.

 

You and your daughter may want to role play some and have her rehearse what she wants to say and you may want to consider what a "good" outcome will be.

 

If the decision is to withdraw from the class entirely, you may have enough grounds to get a partial refund or the money credited to take another course, but that'll be a decision for a dean (often Dean of Student Services, but department chair or advisor may be able to recommend who to talk with).

 

Whatever you do, do not get involved yourself. Be helpful and encouraging to your daughter, drive her to campus and hang out somewhere else, but if she's old enough to take college classes, she's old enough to handle the fall out (with a lot of support from you on the sidelines).

 

The person who said she'd be tempted to go "mama bear" on the instructor... really really really bad idea. Really bad.

 

It does sound like this instructor is one who just isn't good. They are out there and learning how to deal with poor instruction is a part of college. I would definitely say the things you list rise to the level of a formal complaint and I'd encourage your daughter to speak with the department chair and then she may want to move along to a dean. Check the college catalog/handbook for "Greivance Procedure".

 

Good luck to both of you!

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I teach at a CC. Different state, so you'll have slightly different hierarchies, but given the situtation you've described, I'd recommend your daughter talking to the department chair. You do not want to jump levels, but I don't think anything will be gained by talking with the professor.

 

You and your daughter may want to role play some and have her rehearse what she wants to say and you may want to consider what a "good" outcome will be.

 

If the decision is to withdraw from the class entirely, you may have enough grounds to get a partial refund or the money credited to take another course, but that'll be a decision for a dean (often Dean of Student Services, but department chair or advisor may be able to recommend who to talk with).

 

Whatever you do, do not get involved yourself. Be helpful and encouraging to your daughter, drive her to campus and hang out somewhere else, but if she's old enough to take college classes, she's old enough to handle the fall out (with a lot of support from you on the sidelines).

 

The person who said she'd be tempted to go "mama bear" on the instructor... really really really bad idea. Really bad.

 

It does sound like this instructor is one who just isn't good. They are out there and learning how to deal with poor instruction is a part of college. I would definitely say the things you list rise to the level of a formal complaint and I'd encourage your daughter to speak with the department chair and then she may want to move along to a dean. Check the college catalog/handbook for "Greivance Procedure".

 

Good luck to both of you!

 

I agree... let your child handle it on her own. Otherwise the college will use your family as an example for yet another "rule" or grumbling against HSers attending CC. Hope it all works out.

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Based on the comments she makes, I really think that it is her own mothering instincts gone wrong with the added problems of cultural differences.

 

If she comes from Chinese Asia, then she has grown up with humiliation being used in the classroom as a legitimate teaching tool. It's one reason why my boys didn't go to school when we lived in China.

 

I don't know what you should do for your daughter, but I do think that the teacher may not know that her remarks/tactics are inappropriate in a Western setting.

 

Laura

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I think you went too far to say that. I understand you are trying hard to support in this thread, but not by selling China or any nation as one bad.

 

I spent over twenty years of my adult life in Chinese Asia - I certainly would have left sooner if I had despised the country or culture. It is, however, true that humiliation (including ridicule and dunces caps) is a common tool in Chinese schools - it is seen as a spur to achievement. I could equally have said something critical about the UK education system, without seeking to denigrate the whole country or culture.

 

ETA: if you want a feel for my attitude to China, I invite you to visit my old blog.

 

Regards

 

Laura

Edited by Laura Corin
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I guess the author of this thread has received lots of support in her dd's painful dealing with a foreign language teacher(--Chinese--) in cc. If the author is really willing to solve the situation not just complaining, she should hear or think more balenced possible opinion on what could have gone wrong in both side shoes. It could be a simple one initially but now out of control. It could be a case that the individual class teacher has a bad personility. I do not think it's proper for someone to generalize that the teacher is a chinese, therefore she grow up to with humiliation being used in the classroom as a legitimate teaching tool. Againsting China or any nation as an one bad group went too far, not a help either.

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If she comes from Chinese Asia, then she has grown up with humiliation being used in the classroom as a legitimate teaching tool. It's one reason why my boys didn't go to school when we lived in China.

 

I don't know what you should do for your daughter, but I do think that the teacher may not know that her remarks/tactics are inappropriate in a Western setting.

 

Laura

 

 

Laura, your suggestions seem reasonable to me.

 

To HomeschoolWhy?: I hope you don't take my remarks the wrong way; this is NOT about good cultures vs. bad cultures it's about the fact that what is appropriate behavior in one culture may be considered inappropriate in another. When one or both parties are unaware of the how different cultural assumptions play out in everyday life then misunderstandings happen. I expect that's what's going on in this situation.

 

In fact, I've seen parents interact with their own children in ways similar to what the OP posted. One of dh's colleague's sons grew up speaking English with his father and Chinese with mother and grandmother. When this young man was a pre-schooler he decided, quite reasonably IMO, that female persons were to be addressed in Chinese and so when we met him he immediately tried to speak Chinese to me, but spoke English to dh and ds. When father corrected the young man it sounded a bit harsh to my ears, but when he understood he immediately smiled, switched languages and told me in a very serious tone " Hello, it is strange to meet a mama person who doesn't understand Chinese". I think he was about four years old.

 

Martha

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I guess the author of this thread has received lots of support in her dd's painful dealing with a foreign language teacher(--Chinese--) in cc. If the author is really willing to solve the situation not just complaining, she should hear or think more balenced possible opinion on what could have gone wrong in both side shoes. It could be a simple one initially but now out of control. It could be a case that the individual class teacher has a bad personility. I do not think it's proper for someone to generalize that the teacher is a chinese, therefore she grow up to with humiliation being used in the classroom as a legitimate teaching tool. Againsting China or any nation as an one bad group went too far, not a help either.

 

Go back and read the first two responses. We clearly stated what we felt was inappropriate on the part of the daughter.

 

And I think it is very, very helpful to understand how cultures differ. It is not inappropriate unless done in a mocking/jeering/pompous (etc.) way. I'll give you an example. There is a culture I have interacted A LOT with in music-and I'm not speaking of the Chinese culture. I have noted that it is very common for people in this culture to use sarcasm in dialogue. When my dd was younger, she took lessons from someone of that culture. Sometimes she was confused by the sarcastic comments. I was able to explain what sarcasm is and how to identify it. Now she just laughs and understands it is all in good fun-no biggie. However, when the sarcasm started, we could have been greatly offended. Understanding that this type of dialogue is common in that culture helped us to understand-and still love and respect-this teacher. Being aware of cultural differences created understanding.

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Laura, your suggestions seem reasonable to me.

 

To HomeschoolWhy?: I hope you don't take my remarks the wrong way; this is NOT about good cultures vs. bad cultures it's about the fact that what is appropriate behavior in one culture may be considered inappropriate in another.

Martha

Hi Martha, I too hope you don't misunderstand mine. I am equally sad to see what the author of this thread and her young dd is going through in foreign language class(:Chinese) in cc. I assume the auther is looking for a way to solve the matter. I have reread her post several times repeatedly for better understanding. My view was to be mutual in both shoes in order to find possible solution to solve. Simply because the teacher is a chinese, I do not believe it's proper to jump into making the statement that the teacher has chosen to humilate the auther's dd as she has grown up with humiliation being used in the classroom as a legitimate teaching tool. If you are right to claim such way, you must say, in your life long experience, you have seen every chinese behaved same way. Instead, in my opinion there can be more possible reasons other than 'oh, she is a chinese, that's why'. One of possibility is that, may be this teacher is a horrible individual and unhelpful.

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I should have ignored a couple of the earlier responses, so this will be my final post in this particular thread. I do hope things work out for your dd, and that you'll feel comfortable with updating us later on.

 

Martha

Edited by Martha in NM
clarity
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Hi Martha, I too hope you don't misunderstand mine. I am equally sad to see what the author of this thread and her young dd is going through in foreign language class(:Chinese) in cc. I assume the auther is looking for a way to solve the matter. I have reread her post several times repeatedly for better understanding. My view was to be mutual in both shoes in order to find possible solution to solve. Simply because the teacher is a chinese, I do not believe it's proper to jump into making the statement that the teacher has chosen to humilate the auther's dd as she has grown up with humiliation being used in the classroom as a legitimate teaching tool. If you are right to claim such way, you must say, in your life long experience, you have seen every chinese behaved same way. Instead, in my opinion there can be more possible reasons other than 'oh, she is a chinese, that's why'. One of possibility is that, may be this teacher is a horrible individual and unhelpful.

 

I want to say that I appreciate everyone trying to discuss possible cross-cultural influences. It can be hard to do! It does often create misunderstandings, but if we can stick with it respectfully, I think we all learn. I appreciate "homeschoolwhy" reminding us to be careful about weighing all the possibilities, including that this is just a teacher with a difficult personality. And I appreciate Laura and Martha offering insights on how this might be affected by different cultural perspectives. We need more, not less of this. This is so much better than PC attitudes which don't allow for the inevitable missteps in discussing cross-cultural issues. I want to applaud all of you for being willing to take this on.

 

I'm sure it's been helpful to the OP in trying to create a context that may help her decide on the best course of action. She is now forewarned where some pitfalls may lie.

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I want to say that I appreciate everyone trying to discuss possible cross-cultural influences. It can be hard to do! It does often create misunderstandings,...

You indeed are absolutely right. It is very hard to voice in different aspect. That's how I feel too. I myself have kids who have been placed with much older kids/adult group in learning. I am learning too, how to avoid unnecessary conflict or how to minimize pain. Martha & Laura, I am in agreeing with you too, I simply added additional aspect of possible cause.

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You indeed are absolutely right. It is very hard to voice in different aspect. That's how I feel too. I myself have kids who have been placed with much older kids/adult group in learning. I am learning too, how to avoid unnecessary conflict or how to minimize pain. Martha & Laura, I am in agreeing with you too, I simply added additional aspect of possible cause.

 

IMO, it's good to offer the OP a wide range of opinions. It's easy enough to misunderstand IRL conversations, and easier still to misunderstand cyber conversations. I must be crabbier than usual this morning. My last post, and I really, really mean it this time. ;)

Martha

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The person who said she'd be tempted to go "mama bear" on the instructor... really really really bad idea. Really bad.

 

 

I didn't say I would actually act on my Mama Bear instincts. Just that I would want to-LOL.

 

I wouldn't/couldn't stoop to that level of behaving inappropriate in retaliation of someone being rude towards my kids.

 

But if I was sending my twins to CC as a minor, I would go with my kids to talk to the professor in private if there is a problem. Per the rules of the college, parents must be present for all private meetings their minor student has with any college employee.

 

In our CC... for a minor student to enroll in a class the professor must approve the student to the class. The professor will know the age of student and has to meet the student and parent first. So if I get a feeling the professor would not be a good fit for my teen.. then I would not enroll my teen in that course.

 

The reason my kids (as minors) would be attending a college course is that they are ready and needing the educational (academic) level of a college course that I would not be able to give them at home. They would not be attending the school to be humiliated for being different or because the professor is less than a professional. I am paying out of my pocket $400+ for the course and I will expect the professor to be a professional and teach my child.

 

I do not expect my kids to be ready/able to handle conflicts like this on their own just because their academic level is several years above their maturity level. Minor conflicts such as error in grading... yes. But not go it alone or accept being humiliated by a professor (especially in public).

 

I would be professional in my actions.

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First, I apologize for opening this can o worms! I really had no intention of doing so, I just needed other opinions. I am glad to see that even though everyone was almost arguing, y'all made up:grouphug:

 

I also have to come out and say that my attitude towards the entire situation (on the outside, obviously) has been to lay most of the blame squarely on DD. Is she overfeeling the situation, does she realize mannerisms may be different, etc. Yes, the teacher's attitude changed after she discovered her age, but could it be that it is her way of making dd work harder? Really, I needed to make sure i was not being too hard on her, as I have been accused of in the past. Plus, the mommy inside of me really does feel bad for her and wants to roar at anyone else being mean to her :(

 

I agree with not getting involved at this point. When she started this CC business two years ago, I explained to her then that she was totally responsible for making sure she gets every assignment and she would be the sole contact to every teacher. I cannot imagine doing more than escorting her to the proper person's office and waiting outside. She must learn to advocate for herself. Of course, this would only go so far as situations like this. Let's just pretend that truly horrible things never happen! Of course, now that I am thinking about it, public humiliation probably can be considered one of those horrible things... I think before I accosted the teacher, though, I would talk to other students in the class to see if it would be considered bad enough to request a meeting. And even then, I know the department chair well enough so that I could speak with her off of the record. Back and forth I go...

 

At the first college, I had to sign a paper saying that I was aware I would never be allowed any contact with the teacher without DD's approval and presence if it were about her class. Even at 12 yo. Like your area, Anita, she had to have a interview with the teacher as well as a signature from the department chair, but the interview was to be completely on her own, no moms allowed. Here, she only had to get approval from the advising department.

 

If she comes from Chinese Asia, then she has grown up with humiliation being used in the classroom as a legitimate teaching tool. It's one reason why my boys didn't go to school when we lived in China.

 

I don't know what you should do for your daughter, but I do think that the teacher may not know that her remarks/tactics are inappropriate in a Western setting.

 

Laura

 

This was one of the things I tell her over and over. DD has had visiting gym coaches from China and they very often have no idea that what is normal to them is at least unusual for us. Not trying to knock the Chinese, or Russian or any one country as humiliation is a valid teaching method. Negative reinforcement can work as well as positive reinforcement, I see nothing wrong with whatever anyone chooses to do. I have sort of a when in Rome attitude, and various people bring their bits of Rome with them sometimes. Deal. HOWEVER, there is a line somewhere. When do your cultural differences cross the line into being less than professional?

 

See, its just so confusing! Again, I really, really appreciate everyone's opinion and I really love how all of you are able to see things from both sides because sometimes, it is difficult when you are in the middle. I have no idea what to do with her. She does not want to drop the class, and has until November 9 to do so. She says at the very least, she can learn as much as possible and take second semester elsewhere since she has maxed out CC French anyways. Or get a private tutor. Or have a TV happy ending where everyone loves each other?

 

Thank you all again:grouphug::grouphug:

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Does your daughter have an advisor? If so I would have her get advice from that person.

 

I know what my dad would tell me,: Go to the professor (I wonder if a witness would be appropriate-the advisor or someone else) and apologize for the Shakespeare picture and anything else. Apologize even if you are only 5% of the problem. Hard advice to follow, but when I have followed it I never regretted it. (It doesn't always resolve things the way I want, but it certainly has done so in some circumstances)

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