Jump to content

Menu

Can someone explain Saxon to me...(long sorry)


Recommended Posts

As much as I hate having to admit it, being a math person myself, my oldest isn't. She's bright and can do math but it just isn't her thing. She did VideoText Algebra (all but the last module which is Algebra 2) and did well. I wanted her to do Life of Fred Geometry because it's really great and makes you really think. The problem we are having is that she just isn't getting it. Fred teaches by having you work through problems and discovering the answers. She needs straight-forward. This blows my longterm plans because I planned to have her do Fred Advanced Algebra and Trig as well.

 

So she wants to go back to VT and do their Geometry but I'm not sure it's right. I was considering Saxon but I don't understand how it works. I know their Geometry is brand-new so before this, where did you get Geometry credit/learning before it was available? Could she do Saxon Algebra 2 and Advanced Math and still cover what she needs in Geometry or did Geometry come out because Saxon lacked enough geometry before that? The description on DIVE made it sound like Geometry was only for kids who were doing only Alg1, Alg2 and Geometry. She's definately planning more math than that. It isn't her "thing" but she's capable and college bound.

 

So if I moved her to Saxon, where should I start?

 

Heather

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're waiting for our first Saxon curriculum to arrive. We managed to get it madly cheap ($10ish) so for that price, we're willing to test it. ;D Life of Fred is apparently good as a supplement and can be used as a primary curriculum, but not with everyone. My DD said she didn't want to use it because she'd read it once and would want to know the answers, but she'd only remember half of what she learnt and wouldn't want to go back and read it so therefore it was ruled out as an option for us too. S: They might be useful as a supplement though? (:

 

Saxon wise, this was in their FAQs:

 

What are my options for geometry?The upper level Saxon Homeschool programs have geometry integrated into them. Geometry is easily integrated into algebra because the topics are strongly interrelated, and this approach has proven to be very effective. Rather than spend an entire year on geometry, Saxon introduces geometry concepts into the math series at the appropriate times. For those homeschoolers whose states have strict requirements for geometry curricula, or for those who would prefer to spend a full year on geometric concepts, we have introuded a 1st Edition Saxon Geometry program.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jacobs' is not the absolutely most difficult program on the market, but it is a solid, tough program. I would examine the text, with the daughter looking at it too, before buying.

 

Saxon was sold a few years ago, so the present owner company is, presumably, "doing its own thing" now. A lot of parents griped because geometry was sprinkled around throughout the algebra books, rather than presented coherently as a unified subject.

 

If you can compare details of VT algebra I with Saxon algebra I, you will know what she has/hasn't covered for algebra I.

 

In March 2008, Houghton-Mifflin (which bought out Saxon) announced they would publish new editions of Saxon algebra (I and II) and geometry. These revised algebra books maybe do not include any geometry anymore -- ? I speculate thus because it would be foolish to include geometry in the algebra books and simultaneously peddle an independent geometry text.

 

One would hope [ ! ] that the Saxon website placement tests correlate with these new editions. Examining those would indicate where, within the Saxon line-up, your daughter would begin.

 

P.S. Heather, should you elect to use Saxon geometry, this past week Shekinah Curriculum Cellar was selling the complete geometry kit for only $72.95 -- which is nearly 35% off the regular retail price.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My son did only Algebra 2 and Advanced Math with Saxon and did well on the SAT test. He is a math kid and I will tell you this is hard! He took 2 years to do Algebra 2 and part of it was slowing down to learn how to do things the Saxon way. If I had it to do over again I would have started him in Algebra 1 with Saxon. We would have ended in the same place. Once he was comfortable with the way things were done he had no problems.

 

He was starting the Algebra 2 book in the 8th grade so we had plenty of time, but he was my first (which translates to guinia pig)

 

Linda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I only have one DD so it's either get it right first time or never. Agh, the pressure! D: She's already behind according to Saxon's placement tests but I got the 8/7 one, and we're going to work through that, skipping stuff she already knows while doing hippocampus algebra 1 simultaniously then hopefully, we'll get through saxon's algebra 1 quicker then we can move on to algebra 2. That's my hope, anyway. Unfortunately DD hates algebra thanks to when she was in school but she also hated science and is now paying for the kinetic books physics web license out of her own money. Woo! :3

 

Anyway, rambling, sorry. If it took a while to get used to the saxon way, did he have difficulty doing maths with either another curriculum later on or with college level maths? I don't want to get to the end & start A Level maths and find she's not doing it the 'A Level way' and have to start all over again. ]:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For geometry? or for math in general ?

 

I'm not at all a good person to ask. Math is not my strong suit, just something we have had to work through with four approaches for four children. My task was to select the high school math; dh's task was to ensure that it was digested properly.

 

So, here are some assorted comments -- which may be useful, or may be worthless. (but all are well-intended ! :) )

 

BJUP upper math always seemed toward the "hard" end, because it is 100% "teacher required".

 

Foerster's algebra I often is referenced on the Internet as being used in public school honors classes. Our eldest son made straight A's with that program (which "fit" himwell). DH thought it an outstanding textbook.

 

Our second son tried Saxon algebra I, but quickly begged leave to abandon it. (not because it was difficult, but because Saxon consistently is a bad fit for my children) (Request immediately was granted.) He switched to Teaching Textbooks algebra I, and was much happier. We quickly found out that TT algebra I covers only 1/2 a year of algebra I (despite the cover label); however, that proved no drawback when he entered college, fortunately. He just took one semester of "remedial" math and continued on his Happy History Path. TT, then, definitely is an "easy" math program.

 

Son #1 used Jacobs' geometry, which received very high ratings from dh. Son #2 used -- (yep !) -- Teaching Textbooks geometry.

 

Son #3 attends an outside school, and is using the new Saxon geometry this year (in 10th grade). I ordered a set for him to have at home, and it should arrive this coming week. Out on the Internet, I have read that Saxon geometry is poor quality when it comes to proofs. As I always understood proofs to be the blood-and-sinews of geometry, I'm prepared for Saxon to "do it again" (meaning be on my "dislike list"), and be a weak program. (insofar as geometry can be easy !)

 

As both of my oldest boys went to college after their year with geometry, I can't speak for the uppermost levels of high school math. Considering how highly we regarded Foerster's algebra I, I'm sure that we would consider his algebra II with trig text to be equally difficult, and of equally good calibre.

 

What a muddle my family has been, right ?!

 

P.S. Nearly forgot. We did some supplemental algebra work with Internet-available materials for Lials and Hornsby algebra texts. They impressed us as strong books.

 

 

 

Sorry to steal your thread a little but what would you class as the most difficult program, Orthodox? :]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks so much for you answer Orthodox, I really appreciate it. :] You also get the 'DD approval' since she read your post with me.

 

DD absolutely loves maths (she's even willing to suffer through Algebra) and could happily spend all day on it, I'm sure. We're both 'mathy people' but DD gets more enjoyment out of it. I was taught a lot better than DD during my public school years though and I think if we got BJUP I could learn alongside her relatively easily but DD is very, very independent. She loves discussing things with me (history & just general opinions on things. book too! :]) but when it comes to math she asks me to help her as a last, last, last resort so working independently is important to her. She also learns better later at night, whereas I'm a morning/early afternoon person which would cause one or both of us to be grumpy.

 

So basically independence = good thing. I think that basically rules out BJUP from what you've said? Foerster's I don't think we've ever looked into but we definately will now.

 

I think I'd be very upset about Saxon if I hadn't got it so amazingly cheap. Hehe! I think we'll try it with DD just to fill in the gaps for her and just as a reference math thing to have lying around. ;D

 

Righto, I just looked up Foerster's and it doesn't look like we'd be able to get it over here without getting it directly from them (no doubt with a huuuuuge shipping cost, if they'd even ship it at all) so I've no idea what to do know. I'm all conflicted :3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Righto, I just looked up Foerster's and it doesn't look like we'd be able to get it over here without getting it directly from them (no doubt with a huuuuuge shipping cost, if they'd even ship it at all) so I've no idea what to do know. I'm all conflicted :3

 

I just looked on Amazon.co.uk for you. There are some priced as low as £22. They are shipped from the US, but they said the price to ship to the UK was 2.75. That's only the book, and it's an old edition (1984), so wouldn't include modern calculator usage. However, just thought I'd let you know in case you wanted to look at it. FWIW, I've heard very good things about Foerster's explanations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My mind is scrambled from thinking I'm talking with two moms at once !

 

HSHS -- (and I do NOT know how to pronounce that ! :) ) -- Where do you live? Kiana cited a UK websource, so I'm guessing you live across "the pond" -- ?

 

Although homeschooling is, I have an impression, much rarer in Great Britain, what do other families use for homeschool math ? How do the maths texts used in schools stack up among themselves ? Any good ones to consider from those? Are there are "scope-and-sequence" lists for what the government exams will expect a student to have covered? The U.S. is such a hash, since there is no standardization of school programs. (We here stubbornly resist having such, too !)

 

What U.S. grade does your dd come closest to "matching" ?

 

BTW, if you do live in England, then you probably can find Rosemary Sutclif's books more easily than we can. [green jealous face over here !]

 

Antonia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that Kiana! I was just searching 'foerster's algebra'. Silly me!

 

And Antonio, is Jo any easier? ;D It stands for 'homeschooling high school'!

 

We are across the pond, indeed. To be honest, over here, we don't have the options you do. I don't think we actually even have any curriculums that are made and mass-sold to home educators over here.

 

I only started home-edding DD a year ago and by then she was ready for GCSE-level so our options were buy a GCSE textbook, do a distance learning GCSE course or... that's about it, actually. Haha! So we want a bit of variety. DD's taken a year off though. She came out of school with depression & anxiety and I felt mental health was more important. ]: But basically, we have no options curriculum wise. There aren't any. Are you feeling lucky yet?

 

Because DD hasn't done any maths for a year she's testing at 8th grade level, roughly I think. That is, according to Saxon & Mind Sprinting (which she's bored with already since she's finding it too easy. Fast tracker, here we come). So I'm not sure if she's actually at that level or not. But that's what she's testing as. I think it is because she hated algebra in school though and I think most of what she does know was taught to her in her last three months of school when she got a new maths teacher who helped her with algebra and didn't mind her needing things explained more than once ( I'm not going into my rant about her other teacher O: ). I got her an Algebra book after she left school too that explained algebra in terms of cats and all of a sudden algebra made sense to her. :] Best book I ever bought! Haha!

 

I asked DD what textbook she used for GCSE maths when she was in school and she told me she used so many different ones she didn't know what they were called and I think it depends on the school too so there isn't a universal one that I could pick out as being 'the best' or 'the most common'.

 

And the national curriculum = boo! Luckily it's only followed by state schools. Private schools & homeschoolers are free from it (for now at least xD).

 

I was sort of suprised by DD testing at 8th grade though since according to test result the UK's public school system's supposed to test higher than the US's. I'd say 'not to insult you', but you're a homeschooler, the public schools don't make any difference. xD

 

And I actually didn't know who she was, Antonio! I had to amazon (instead of google xD) her name. And we can! The King Arthur trilogy for a penny (plus postage xD)!

 

Jo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

, where did you get Geometry ...in Saxon

 

It's kind of spread out.

 

GEOMETRY - included in Saxon

Algebra 1 (3rd Edition)

 

Lesson 1 – Lines and Segments

Lesson 2 – Angles – Polygons – Triangles – Quadrilaterals

Lesson 3 – Perimeter – Circumference

Lesson 8 – Area

Lesson 10 – Conversions of Area

Lesson 15 – Surface Area

Lesson 20 – Volume

Lesson 51 – Graphs of Linear Equations – Graphs of Vertical and Horizontal Lines

Lesson 52 – Conversions of Volume

Lesson 56 – Rearranging Before Graphing

Lesson 60 – Geometric Solids – Prisms and Cylinders

Lesson 72 – Pyramids and Cones

Lesson 75 – Writing the Equation of a Line – Slope-Intercept Method of Graphing

Lesson 81 – Graphical Solutions of Equations – Inconsistent Equations – Dependent Equations

Lesson 91 – Spheres

Lesson 92 – Uniform Motion Problems About Equal Distances

Lesson 94 - Uniform Motion Problems of the Form D<sub>1</sub> + D<sub>2</sub> = N

Lesson 97 – Angles and Triangles – Pythagorean Theorem – Pythagorean Triples

Lesson 98 – Distance Between Two Points – Slope Formula

Lesson 99 – Uniform Motion – Unequal Distances

Lesson 106 – Linear Equations – Equation of a Line Through Two Points

Lesson 107 – Line Parallel to a Given Line – Equation of a Line with a Given Slope

Lesson 110 – Vertical Shifts – Horizontal Shifts – Reflection About the x Axis – Combination of Shifts and Reflections

 

 

GEOMETRY - included in Saxon

Algebra 1 (2nd Edition)

Lesson A – Lines and segments

Lesson B – Geometry review – Perimeter – Area

Lesson C – Geometric shapes – Volume – Degree measure

Lesson 2 – Surface area

Lesson 8 – Conversions of area and volume

Lesson 28 – Volume conversions

Lesson 54 – Graphs of linear equations

Lesson 55 – Vertical and horizontal lines

Lesson 61 – More on area and volume

Lesson 84 – Graphical solutions

Lesson 85 – Writing the equation of a line

Lesson 93 – Slope-intercept method of graphing

Lesson 96 – Uniform motion problems of the form D<sub>1</sub> + D<sub>2</sub> = N

Lesson 101 – Pythagorean Theorem

Lesson 102 – Distance between two points

Lesson 104 – Uniform motion – unequal distances

Lesson 112 – Equation of a line through two points

Lesson 115 – Line parallel to a given line

Lesson 116 – Equation of a line with a given slope

Lesson 119 – Consistent, inconsistent, and dependent equations

 

 

GEOMETRY - included in Saxon

Algebra 2 (2nd and 3rd Editions)

Lesson A – Geometry review – Angles

Lesson B – Perimeter – Area – Volume - Surface Area – Sectors of circles

Lesson 1 – Polygons – Triangles – Transversals – Proportional segments

Lesson 2 – Circle relationships

Lesson 7 – Equations from geometry

Lesson 8 – Graphing linear equations – Intercept-slope method

Lesson 10 – Pythagorean Theorem

Lesson 11 – Inscribed angles

Lesson 12 – Equation of a line

Lesson 13 – Area of an isosceles triangle

Lesson 14 – Equation of a line through two points – Equation of a line with a given slope

Lesson 17 – Angle relationships

Lesson 18 - Similar triangles

Lesson 19 – AA means AAA

Lesson 20 – Line parallel to a given line

Lesson 22 – Uniform motion problems – equal distances - Similar triangles and proportions

Lesson 23 – Graphical solutions

Lesson 24 – Overlapping triangles

Lesson 25 – Parallel lines

Lesson 26 – Overlapping right triangles

Lesson 29 – Uniform motion problems: D<sub>1</sub> + D<sub>2</sub> = k

Lesson 30 – Deductive reasoning – Euclid – Vertical angles are equal – Corresponding interior and exterior angles - 180° in a triangle

Lesson 31 – Perpendicular lines – Remote interior angles

Lesson 32 – Congruency – Congruent triangles

Lesson 34 – Uniform motion problems: D<sub>1</sub> + k = D<sub>2</sub>

Lesson 35 – Angles in polygons – Inscribed quadrilaterals

Lesson 37 – Parallelograms

Lesson 39 – Parallelogram proof – Rhombus

Lesson 49 – Linear intercepts – Transversals

Lesson 54 – Similar triangles

Lesson 56 – Angles in circles – Proofs

Lesson 66 – 30-60-90 triangles

Lesson 72 – Lines from experimental data

Lesson 74 – Uniform motion with both distances given

Lesson 79 – Metric volume - 45-45-90 triangles

Lesson 87 – Slope formula

Lesson 88 – The distance formula

Lesson 100 – Graphs of parabolas

Lesson 123 – Locus – Basic construction

Lesson 124 – Conditions of congruence – Proofs of congruence – Isosceles triangles

Lesson 125 – Distance defined – Equidistance – Circle proofs

Lesson 126 – Rectangles – Squares – Isosceles trapezoids – Chords and arcs

Lesson 127 - Lines and planes in space

Lesson 128 – Circumscribed and inscribes – Inscribed triangles – Inscribed circles – Proof of the Pythagorean Theorem – Inscribed angles

 

 

GEOMETRY - included in Saxon

Advanced Math

 

Lesson 1 – Geometry Review

Lesson 2 – More on Area – Cylinder and Prisms – Cones and Pyramids – Spheres

Lesson 3 – Pythagorean Theorem – Triangle Inequalities (1) – Similar Polygons – Similar Triangles

Lesson 4 - Construction

Lesson 5 – Areas of Similar Geometric Figures – Diagonals of Rectangular Solids

Lesson 7 - Inductive and Deductive reasoning – Logic – The Contrapositive – Converse and Inverse

Lesson 8 – Statements of Similarity – Proportional Segments – Angle Bisectors and Side Ratios

Lesson 9 – Congruent Figures – Proof Outlines

Lesson 10 – Equation of a Line

Lesson 11 – Circles – Properties of Circles

Lesson 12 – Angles and Diagonals in Polygons – Proof of the Chord-Tangent Theorem

Lesson 13 – Intersecting Secants – Intersecting Secants and Tangents – Products of Chord Segments – Products of Secant and Tangent Segments

Lesson 15 – Assumptions - Proofs

Lesson 17 – Proofs of the Pythagorean Theorem – Proofs of Similarity

Lesson 20 – Two Special Triangles

Lesson 31 – Symmetry – Reflections - Translations

Lesson 33 – Quadrilaterals – Properties of Parallelograms – Types of Parallelograms – Conditions for Parallelograms - Trapezoids

Lesson 34 – Linear Regression

Lesson 35 – The Distance Formula

Lesson 36 – Angles Greater Than 360°

Lesson 37 – The Line as a Locus – The Midpoint Formula

Lesson 42 – Conic Sections - Circles

Lesson 48 – Perpendicular Bisectors

Lesson 58 – Distance from a Point to a Line

Lesson 63 – Circles and Completing the Square

Lesson 68 – Locus Definition of a Parabola – Translated Parabolas – Applications - Derivation

Lesson 71 – The Ellipse (1)

Lesson 72 – One Side Plus Two Other Parts

Lesson 73 – Regular Polygons

Lesson 78 – The Hyperbola

Lesson 89 – The Ellipse (2)

Lesson 99 – The Arithmetic and Geometric Means

Lesson 106 – Translations of Conic Sections – Equations of the Ellipse – Equations of the Hyperbola

Lesson 123 – The General Conic Equation

Lesson 125 – Using the Graphing Calculator to Graph

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TRIG in Saxon

 

TRIGONOMETRY Contained in Saxon

Algebra 2 (2nd and 3rd Editions)

 

Lesson 43 - Sine, cosine, and tangent

Lesson 44 - Solving right triangles

Lesson 54 - Polar coordinates

Lesson 59 - Rectangular form to polar form

Lesson 63 - Addition of vectors

Lesson 72 - Negative angles

Lesson 76 - Negative vectors

 

Advanced Math

 

Lesson 14 - Sine, Cosine, and Tangent - Angles of Elevation and Depression - Rectangular and Polar Coordinates - Coordinate conversion

Lesson 24 - Sums of Trigonometric Functions

Lesson 27 - Related Angles - Signs of Trigonometric Functions

Lesson 29 - The Unit Circle

Lesson 32 - Inverse Trigonometric Functions

Lesson 36 - Angles Greater Than 360 Degrees - Sums of Trigonometric Functions

Lesson 39 - Radian Measure of Angles

Lesson 41 - Reciprocal Trigonometric Functions

Lesson 43 - Periodic Functions - Graphs of Sine and Cosine of Angles

Lesson 47 - Vertical Sinusoid Translations - Arctan

Lesson 48 - Powers of Trigonometric Functions

Lesson 50 - Trigonometric Equations

Lesson 52 - Arguments in Trigonometric Equations

Lesson 53 - Angular Velocity

Lesson 57 - Phase Shifts in Sinusoids - Period of a Sinusoid

Lesson 60 - Factorable Trigonometric Equations - Loss of Solutions Caused By Division

Lesson 64 - Polar Form of a Complex Number

Lesson 65 - Radicals in Trigonometric Equations

Lesson 66 - Phase Shifts and Period Changes

Lesson 76 - Functions of (-x) - Functions of the Other Angle - Trigonometric Identities (1) - Rules covering Trigonometric Identities

Lesson 80 - Trigonometric Identities (2)

Lesson 81 - Law of Cosines

Lesson 84 - Sketching Sinusoids

Lesson 85 - Advanced Trigonometric Equations

Lesson 87 - Sum and Difference Trigonometric Identities - Tangent Identities

Lesson 90 - Double-Angle Identities - Half-Angle Identities

Lesson 93 - Advanced Trigonometric Identities

Lesson 94 - Graphs of Secant and Cosecant - Graphs of Tangent and Cotangent

Lesson 96 - More Double-Angle Identities - Triangle Area Formula - Proof of the Law of Sines

Lesson 97 - Ambiguous Case involving the Law of Sines

Lesson 100 - Trigonometric Product Identities - More Sum and Difference Trigonometric Identities

Lesson 110 - Graphs of Arcsine, Arccosine, Arcsecant, Arccosecant, Arctangent, and Arccotangent

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Public School grants Geometry and Trig credit for Saxon math work:

 

Geometry

credit is granted after completion of

Lsn 60 of Advanced Math (and Alg-1, Alg-2)

 

 

Trigonometry

credit is granted after completion of

Lsn 60-127 in Saxon Advanced Math (and Alg-1, Alg-2)

 

:seeya:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Demo here

 

http://saxonhomeschool.hmhco.com/en/saxonteacher_demo.htm

 

 

More info

http://saxonhomeschool.hmhco.com/en/saxonteacher.htm

 

It has the 'teaching' every day for each lesson and each exact example problem worked out step by step.

The practice problems are worked out step by step.

All this is with voiceover on a computerized white-board (not sure what you call it)

It has every single problem worked out step by step.

And the test problems also are worked out step by step.

 

 

:seeya:

:seeya:

Edited by Moni
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have used Kinetic Books Algebra I and Algebra II. My oldest dd did the Algebra II program last year while it was still in beta.

 

My middle dd used KB Algebra I when it was first released. She is using Jacobs Geometry this year. She is very eager to return to KB for Algebra II. She likes KB presentation better than any other math programs she has used (Singapore and Jacobs).

 

My oldest used Jacobs for Algebra I and for Geometry. She used KB Algebra II last year. She liked the way it was laid out. She is just starting Precalculus this year using Larson's text. It's going okay, but she would prefer to have continued with KB. KB just doesn't have Precalculus yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...