Critical Thinking Books 1 and 2

[Colleen in NS]

Who here uses or has used these books with their middle schoolers? If you have, can you give me some hints on how to use them? We've started them, and are enjoying going through them orally, but to get through both in a year we'd have to do about 9-10 pages a week, and haven't been able to so far. I wonder if there are any hints about skipping exercises (like you can do in R&S math where you assign odds or evens, or in R&S grammar where you can do just a few exercises from each section until your child understands). Or any other hints, or maybe telling me if some sections seem to go faster than others for some reason. Logic is a foreign language to me, so this is new for me, too. Also, I'm hoping to keep it down to 30 min. or less per day (an hour or two per week schooling year round, if possible).

 

BTW, I'm not looking for other recommendations - I know there have been complaints about CT, but I like it and I am going with my previous trust in WTM recommendations. We're up to lesson 2 and I'm enjoying what we're learning, plus the talks ds and I have had.

 

Thanks!

[Mary in GA]

We enjoyed Critical Thinking too. We only got through book 1--just didn't have time for book 2 last year. We are doing formal logic this year with Traditional Logic.

 

I really can't give any advice on exercises to skip (we did most all), and I wouldn't try to cram it all in. I agree that 30 minute sessions are plenty long. If you're concerned about staying on a schedule to start formal logic next year, I really can't see any problem with skipping book 2. If you begin formal logic and ds really struggles, go back to CT book 2 for a while then pick up the formal logic again a little later. If you are new to logic, you're going to have a learning curve. I worked through TL1 when ds did it years ago. I bailed on TL2, and he did it pretty much on his own. This time around I'll have to work through TL2! HTH.

 

Mary

[Colleen in NS]

If you're concerned about staying on a schedule to start formal logic next year, I really can't see any problem with skipping book 2. If you begin formal logic and ds really struggles, go back to CT book 2 for a while then pick up the formal logic again a little later. If you are new to logic, you're going to have a learning curve. I worked through TL1 when ds did it years ago. I bailed on TL2, and he did it pretty much on his own. This time around I'll have to work through TL2! HTH.

 

Mary

 

Definitely a learning curve going on here!

 

So, yes, I was hoping to start formal logic next year....do the formal logic courses (TL, IL) cover what is in CT2, then?

 

I already bought IL and the one after it, going by the 2004 WTM recs so I could have a look ahead of time. Of course, every time I open them up, I glaze over, just because the pressure isn't immediately on for me to learn it yet. Then I read in the new WTM that TL is the rec, because of the DVD making it easy for parents. So now I'm starting to doubt my purchase of IL.... I wonder if TL is more verbal - the thing that made me glaze over in IL was all the symbols, although maybe logic is made up of a lot of symbols? I admit, when I got to lesson 2 in CT1, I panicked last week because I KNEW it was going to take me quite a few readings and some hard figuring to understand the "If/Then" sentences, etc. in that lesson.

 

And then I noticed in the new WTM that it says that if you don't do TL2, you can still go on to do a decent study of rhetoric - so what is the point of doing TL2?? I find it so hard sometimes to go by a recommendation, try to make sure I plan something in (esp. when each step of the way is so new to me), and then wonder why it seems so hard, only to hear how other people drop it and say things worked out fine. I guess the frustration works for me, though, because it makes me all the more determined to give my kids what they need so they don't have to go through this later!! :)

Edited August 10, 2009 by Colleen in NS

[Mary in GA]

I loaned out my CT2 (and I never actually used it), so I went to their website to look at the toc. It looks like CT2 covers some formal logic and some modern logic in kind of a "lite" way. TL doesn't go into some of the informal fallacies that CT2 or IL do. IL series covers modern logic topics like truth tables and mathematical proofs. These aren't covered in TL. I struggled with whether to do IL or TL. I like both and would really like to do both, but we may not have the time.

 

The value of TL2 is that it is more about the application of formal logic. Most chapters have a case study to complete.

 

I don't think I've cleared anything up and now I'm rambling! Logic is a difficult subject for me. My 3 kids are each 6 years apart, so maybe through repetition of the subject I'll get it eventually. Right now I need more coffee!

 

Mary

[Colleen in NS]

I loaned out my CT2 (and I never actually used it), so I went to their website to look at the toc. It looks like CT2 covers some formal logic and some modern logic in kind of a "lite" way. TL doesn't go into some of the informal fallacies that CT2 or IL do. IL series covers modern logic topics like truth tables and mathematical proofs. These aren't covered in TL. I struggled with whether to do IL or TL. I like both and would really like to do both, but we may not have the time.

 

The value of TL2 is that it is more about the application of formal logic. Most chapters have a case study to complete.

 

I don't think I've cleared anything up and now I'm rambling! Logic is a difficult subject for me. My 3 kids are each 6 years apart, so maybe through repetition of the subject I'll get it eventually. Right now I need more coffee!

 

Mary

 

:svengo: Me too. :lol:

 

How in the world am I supposed to know what needs to be covered and why?? (not really a question directed to your post, just picture me sitting beside you with tea in hand, expressing my frustration with having to make decisions seemingly blindly many times) I finally sorted out in my head the difference between Latin declensions and conjugations, and figured out that 3rd declension is complicated but I can sort that out eventually, and now here comes Logic - BAM! :lol:

 

Thanks for your help - there are sentences in there that will help me compare the programs, if I ever get figured out what is needed for my kids and why.

 

EDIT: hold those thoughts - I'm into some heavy duty research now - have multiple tabs open and am starting to understand some things. Will report back later! :)

Edited August 11, 2009 by Colleen in NS