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Selective Service Registration Mandatory????


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Guest Alte Veste Academy

Well, he doesn't need to worry right now. There is not a draft. Registering doesn't mean joining. It means his name is on a master list and that list is used to draft people should the need arise. He needs to register, just as every male over 18 has to do in this country. He certainly doesn't want the trouble of not registering.

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My ds just received a letter from the US Government to register to the Selective Service. It states that failure to register is a federal crime punishable by a fine and imprisonment. My son does not want to go to the military - what should he do?

 

Thanks,

Judy

 

 

His duty.

 

Register like all the millions of other American boys.

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I agree with the other posters. Every male at age 18 must register. It doesn't mean he's automatically in the military. I've wondered what they do about men with such medical conditions that could prevent them from being an effective soldier. I don't find anything about medical exemptions. Until I find out specifically, my Asperger's son will be registering when he's 18.

 

I did find one thing. There is more information on this website: http://www.usajobs.gov/EI60.asp

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Guest Alte Veste Academy
I've wondered what they do about men with such medical conditions that could prevent them from being an effective soldier.

 

They aren't called to serve if they have a documented medical or psychological condition which would prevent them from being an effective soldier.

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If I remember not registering also comes with penalties like not being able to have student loans, other types of loans and credit issues. Social Security and passport issues...

 

Somewhere there is a list of all the various ways not registering can impact you even if you slip past the above mentioned punishments.

 

Oh and most importantly--

 

It is his duty.

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This is also *not* new. It has existed in one form or another for almost 100 years, and a draft has only rarely been instituted during that time.

 

Yes, I'm surprised you don't remember hearing about it in high school. There were posters all over the school, announcements, etc., about this every spring. Even now there are many PSA's on the radio every spring.

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You know what is weird? Even legal residents (non citizens) have to sign up. There is an age cut off though so my DH didn't have to. I would have never heard the end of that one otherwise. ;)

 

 

If people live in this country I would expect that they sign up, I see nothing weird about it. The US military has many non-Americans in its ranks. It is only to be an officer that one must be a citizen.

 

I fail to understand why anyone would have a problem with this.

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PQR, I don't think anyone does. It's just shocking to find that your baby is now a "man" and the US wants him to promise possible service in the future, just in case.

 

IOW, I think it was unexpected (heck, I KNOW about it, but when time comes for ds, I'll still be surprised and a little heartsick).

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A person can refuse service such as fighting in a war. But most of the time, there are services that must be rendered which wouldn't bother a person's conscience. A person can go through proper channels to refuse particular service or all service if they need to later on. There may be consequences to that. But they should follow the law and fill out the form at 18.

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You know what is weird? Even legal residents (non citizens) have to sign up. There is an age cut off though so my DH didn't have to. I would have never heard the end of that one otherwise. ;)

 

 

I have heard of some immigrants signing up for enlistment and serving in the Gulf War or current Iraq/Afghanistan and using their time of service to legally become a US Citizen. If someone gets into our country and wants to put their life on the line for my country, family and freedom... I think that is quite honorable.

Edited by tex-mex
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It's mandatory. If there ever was a draft and he had either a disability or was a conscientious objector, they would deal with it if/when he would be drafted. CO's have to prove they are truly CO's and not just wanting to avoid the dangers of war. In WW2, CO's were put into work camps and lighter CO's could/would request a non-combatant position (medical or chaplaincy).

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Well then he should be entitled to the same rights as a citizen. He is not. For example, he is not allowed to vote.

 

Essentially the problem is we are pacifists. We don't believe in violence for solving problems except under very extreme circumstances.

 

 

He cannot vote because he is NOT a citizen, he is however enjoying almost every other benefit of living in the United States. If he wants to vote then he should become a citizen, I did. As a means of payment for all those other benefits registering for the Selective Service is not unreasonable.

While I personally have little time for pacifists as I believe that that they only empower those willing to use violence that does not mean that one should not register for selective service. The US military does have exemptions for conscientious objectors and in the event of a draft he would be able to claim this exemption.

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Well then he should be entitled to the same rights as a citizen. He is not. For example, he is not allowed to vote.

 

Essentially the problem is we are pacifists. We don't believe in violence for solving problems except under very extreme circumstances.

 

Read my last post; it mentions the Conscientious Objector status if he were called up for draft. However, he will have to prove that he is a Conscientious Objector and not simply avoiding duty.

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Eh, doesn't matter he is too old anyway. I still don't agree that he can fight for the country, but cannot vote in the country.

 

But if he were called up to serve, he could earn his citizenship and then be allowed to vote. I don't think someone should be given the vote just for registering. But for actual service, yes.

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It is pretty difficult if one isn't a member of certain religious groups.

 

Not true. Certain religious affiliation can help as evidence, but even they can be busted without personal conviction and sent to serve. He would have to prove, through interrogation, that he has valid personal convictions on being a conscientious objector (aka, they might bring up situational ethics or known personal history).

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Well, he doesn't need to worry right now. There is not a draft. Registering doesn't mean joining. It means his name is on a master list and that list is used to draft people should the need arise. He needs to register, just as every male over 18 has to do in this country. He certainly doesn't want the trouble of not registering.

 

 

:iagree:

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Not true. Certain religious affiliation can help as evidence, but even they can be busted without personal conviction and sent to serve. He would have to prove, through interrogation, that he has valid personal convictions on being a conscientious objector (aka, they might bring up situational ethics or known personal history).

 

THIS is my biggest issue w/ mandatory SSR. I do not believe one should have to PROVE one's personal convictions to avoid being sent out to be trained to kill --or assist others to kill. That goes against the very foundational point of *freedom* that we are already losing.

 

Our military [and gvt!!!] is a VOLUNTEER force. That's part of what makes it so great. I would vote to do away w/ mandatory SSR, while still allowing voluntary SSR. i don't even mind offering a tax credit for people who are willing to sign up w/ a SSR [gvt recruiting for a Constitutional job].

 

But to make it mandatory and penalize you w/ JAIL TIME just for not signing up? That irks the crap outta me.

 

eta: but yes, my sons will be following the law and signing up via SSR.

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He has to register just like every other man in this country, but I doubt we will ever have a draft so don't worry about it. It doesn't mean he is in the military. We are managing to fight a two front war at the moment with no draft so I don't see it ever happening again. It would be political suicide anyway.

 

DS registered within a month of his 18th birthday. It says somewhere that it's punishable by law but I don't know if it's enforced but the point is that it's the law to register. Like everyone else wrote, it does not mean they are being drafted into service tomorrow.

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I don't like it either, but it is nothing new as others have said. My sons will have it doubly worse since they are citizens of Germany as well. Somehow we have to work out them not doing the mandatory service. Although maybe since they don't actually live there they won't have to. We will cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

Now I'm glad I didn't do the dual citizenship - at least I don't think we did. Scratching my head now! He once was entered as a baby on a passport (European Union) I had but since I am an American citizen now, I never thought anything of it. He also is an American having been born here.

Does Germany still have the mandatory boot training?

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It's just shocking to find that your baby is now a "man" and the US wants him to promise possible service in the future, just in case.

 

IOW, I think it was unexpected (heck, I KNOW about it, but when time comes for ds, I'll still be surprised and a little heartsick).

 

Oh! So true. I was reading along thinking of my brother, husband, nephew, then I read this and had a little stab of panic - and my son is only 7!

 

Many people I am close with (self included) have served in the armed forces, yet when I think of my son I am caught off guard.

 

Amy

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Yes Germany still has it, but DH said they talk about doing away with it. If a child is born to a German citizen it is my understanding that citizenship is automatic. DH doesn't think the mandatory military training service will be difficult to get out of since our sons have never lived in Germany (at least not yet).

 

You really made me wonder about the citizenship issue now. At the time ds was born in the U.S., I was still a German citizen, now I am an American. I need to research this just so I can be prepared should anything come our way. Would be kinda funny if ds were still German while neither of his parents are!? :lol:

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Well then he should be entitled to the same rights as a citizen. He is not. For example, he is not allowed to vote.

 

Essentially the problem is we are pacifists. We don't believe in violence for solving problems except under very extreme circumstances.

 

IF there is a draft again, there's always Canada. Forced military service is one of the grounds upon which you can file for refugee status.

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IF there is a draft again, there's always Canada. Forced military service is one of the grounds upon which you can file for refugee status.

 

 

If I am correct the Canadian government has started to return our cowards to us. Robin Long was deported and received a mere 15 months, but I guess that is at least something.

 

Than again if you want our trash, as long as you promise not ever to return it.......

 

 

 

Before I get too much hate mail, we have lost thousands of young servicemen who demonstrated the courage to go when asked and made the ultimate sacrifice. Our military is volunteer and even after signing up one can still, in some circumstances, claim objector status. The scum who run to Canada and let another go in their place are most disreputable of individuals and richly deserve all the scorn that is heaped on them.

Edited by pqr
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If I am correct the Canadian government has started to return our cowards to us. Robin Long was deported and received a mere 15 months, but I guess that is at least something.

 

Than again if you want our trash, as long as you promise not ever to return it.......

 

Mr. Long had already joined voluntarily. A draft is forced service. Not the same.

 

And, are you saying you promise not to return, then?

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The scum who run to Canada and let another go in their place are most disreputable of individuals and richly deserve all the scorn that is heaped on them.

 

 

The scum in gvt that institute forced service and create a situation where honorable people need to flee to avoid being enslaved to a military organization don't offer much credibility when they attempt to discredit and scorn and deem as cowards those that successfully evade being thrown in jail.

 

By maintaining an ALL volunteer force, we allow those honorable people who do NOT wish to serve to freely act and find ways to protect and serve the REST of the people left at home that the military went off to fight for. I'm not seeing how that is dishonorable or cowardly. Your definition of cowardly and courage are pretty narrow, and rely on military service. I completely reject that definition of those terms.

 

nobody is going "in their place" because there IS NO PLACE in a free society for forced service.

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The scum in gvt that institute forced service and create a situation where honorable people need to flee to avoid being enslaved to a military organization don't offer much credibility when they attempt to discredit and scorn and deem as cowards those that successfully evade being thrown in jail.

 

By maintaining an ALL volunteer force, we allow those honorable people who do NOT wish to serve to freely act and find ways to protect and serve the REST of the people left at home that the military went off to fight for. I'm not seeing how that is dishonorable or cowardly. Your definition of cowardly and courage are pretty narrow, and rely on military service. I completely reject that definition of those terms.

 

nobody is going "in their place" because there IS NO PLACE in a free society for forced service.

 

 

:svengo: because I agree with.... Peek!?!

 

And, :cheers2: because ... dayum... you go girl!

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Guest Alte Veste Academy
By maintaining an ALL volunteer force, we allow those honorable people who do NOT wish to serve to freely act and find ways to protect and serve the REST of the people left at home that the military went off to fight for. I'm not seeing how that is dishonorable or cowardly.

 

nobody is going "in their place" because there IS NO PLACE in a free society for forced service.

 

Heaven help me, because this is not a fight I'm really in the mood to take on but this bothers me. A lot. First of all, the obvious... We wouldn't be a free society without the armed services. Ironic, huh?

 

Yes, we're an all volunteer force. That's just dandy. In fact, it is exactly what soldiers and military leaders want...an all volunteer force made up of those who willingly take up arms to protect the people of this country. Obviously, it makes for an easier force to manage to have everyone down with the general idea of pride and honor of military service.

 

However, sometimes more people are needed (in WWII just to name a pretty dang hard to debate example). The draft and the selective service aren't about "being enslaved to a military organization." They are about getting the numbers to win the fight, whatever fight we happen to be in. When volunteers don't make up the full number we need, a draft is necessary.

 

My father was drafted. He hated that he was drafted. He and my mother had just gotten married and he had big dreams of college at the time, but he stepped up and entered the Army as his nation needed him to do. He ended up loving it so much that he made a career of it.

 

I'm all for conscientious objectors. Fine. I get it. But yes, if you are not a conscientious objector and you flee this country to avoid military service, you are a coward. You are, in fact, letting someone else take your place and you are a slap in the face to the men and women who willingly put their lives on the line for you every single day. To sit back and enjoy the freedom that has been provided for you courtesy of the United States soldier and then refuse to join him in the fight when and if he needs your help is reprehensible.

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Heaven help me, because this is not a fight I'm really in the mood to take on but this bothers me. A lot. First of all, the obvious... We wouldn't be a free society without the armed services. Ironic, huh?

 

Yes, we're an all volunteer force. That's just dandy. In fact, it is exactly what soldiers and military leaders want...an all volunteer force made up of those who willingly take up arms to protect the people of this country. Obviously, it makes for an easier force to manage to have everyone down with the general idea of pride and honor of military service.

 

However, sometimes more people are needed (in WWII just to name a pretty dang hard to debate example). The draft and the selective service aren't about "being enslaved to a military organization." They are about getting the numbers to win the fight, whatever fight we happen to be in. When volunteers don't make up the full number we need, a draft is necessary.

 

My father was drafted. He hated that he was drafted. He and my mother had just gotten married and he had big dreams of college at the time, but he stepped up and entered the Army as his nation needed him to do. He ended up loving it so much that he made a career of it.

 

I'm all for conscientious objectors. Fine. I get it. But yes, if you are not a conscientious objector and you flee this country to avoid military service, you are a coward. You are, in fact, letting someone else take your place and you are a slap in the face to the men and women who willingly put their lives on the line for you every single day. To sit back and enjoy the freedom that has been provided for you courtesy of the United States soldier and then refuse to join him in the fight when and if he needs your help is reprehensible.

 

:iagree: - Very well said.

 

Blessings,

Lisa

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If people live in this country I would expect that they sign up, I see nothing weird about it. The US military has many non-Americans in its ranks. It is only to be an officer that one must be a citizen.

 

I fail to understand why anyone would have a problem with this.

 

PQR, I don't think anyone does. It's just shocking to find that your baby is now a "man" and the US wants him to promise possible service in the future, just in case.

 

IOW, I think it was unexpected (heck, I KNOW about it, but when time comes for ds, I'll still be surprised and a little heartsick).

Actually, I do. I'm a pacifist. My father went to jail rather than go to Vietnam. My parents had "safe plans" for my brothers so they could be sent out of the country if a draft was ever instituted.

 

There are serious penalties to not signing up for selective service...but it is something I believe should not be mandatory. It is something that infuriates me about this country.

I'm all for conscientious objectors. Fine. I get it. But yes, if you are not a conscientious objector and you flee this country to avoid military service, you are a coward. You are, in fact, letting someone else take your place and you are a slap in the face to the men and women who willingly put their lives on the line for you every single day. To sit back and enjoy the freedom that has been provided for you courtesy of the United States soldier and then refuse to join him in the fight when and if he needs your help is reprehensible.

I disagree with you. Absolutely and completely. I think war is reprehensible. Period. I do not, will not, and cannot condone the act of destroying the lives of other human beings.
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Guest Alte Veste Academy
I'm a pacifist.

 

I disagree with you. Absolutely and completely. I think war is reprehensible. Period. I do not, will not, and cannot condone the act of destroying the lives of other human beings.

 

Well, then you missed the part where I agreed with you. Being a pacifist makes you a conscientious objector. As I said, I'm fine with that.

 

For the record, only the psychotic like war. Everyone else hates it, no one more than soldiers and their families.

Edited by Alte Veste Academy
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Well, then you missed the part where I agreed with you. Being a pacifist makes you a conscientious objector. As I said, I'm fine with that.

 

For the record, only the psychotic like war. Everyone else hates it, no one more than soldiers and their families.

I do understand that. However, I do not think that even people who are not conscientious objectors should be required to fight in war.

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I disagree with you. Absolutely and completely. I think war is reprehensible. Period. I do not, will not, and cannot condone the act of destroying the lives of other human beings.

 

Just out of curiosity, how do you think the US should have responded to the attack on Pearl Harbor? Would your views change at all if a large foreign army landed on US soil?

 

I'm just wondering if you differentiate between:

 

1. Unjust foreign wars (say, Vietnam, as you mentioned)

2. Just foreign wars to defend against a country that has attacked us

3. An actual invasion of American soil

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