High School Help

[Christine in FL]

WOW...I've already learned so much from reading the previous posts that I thought I'd ask for some help.

 

As we plan ahead for the best educational options for our high schooler, I am trying to find ways for him to take AP courses. Our local high school does not offer them (we live in a very small school district); instead, they guide students to take dual enrollment classes. As I researched this option, I have found that colleges look more favorably at AP courses than at dual enrollment courses. The only option I have found for him to be able to take AP courses is through the Florida Virtual School.

 

If you have had any experience with this, I would truly appreciate hearing from you.

[Sharon in MD]

I think if you post this on the high school board, you'll get a lot of answers. We haven't really tried anything AP, and are probably going to go the CC route since the colleges our son is most interested in will take those credits without extra testing.

[Sharon in MD]

:p

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

You may not be able to spell, but you can EDIT with this board ...

[Sharon in MD]

At least I couldn't figure out how to do that.....Thank goodness we don't get graded for spelling, grammar or punctuation!:p

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Actually, I just realised you can't edit your title.. Just the body of your answer.

[Anne/Ankara]

You can investigate online AP courses. PA Homeschoolers has a very nice program available in a number of areas...

 

http://www.pahomeschoolers.com/courses/index.html

[Susan in IL]

I did 3 roll your own AP classes at home. The biggest problem most homeschoolers face with AP classes is finding a school that will let you take them, they have to be taken at a high school.

 

Go to the college board web site, APCentral and register as a teacher. You can find out tons of information there.

[Arch at Home]

I am no where near high school but I did notice that the University of Missouri has a number of AP classes in its distance learning program. http://cdis.missouri.edu/coursedisplay.aspx?l=h&p=a

 

Arch At Home

[mcconnellboys]

Well, I'm confused, but schools never cease to amaze me. Why would a college look more favorably on AP than dual credit?

 

Here's my reasoning: AP means advanced placement. It was originally a class created to be similar in scope and sequence to a freshman level college course so that kids excelling at it AND passing the college level test at the end might skip that freshman level course and take a higher level course upon actually entering college. So it's a class that purports to be "like" a freshman college course. But it is stretched out over the course of an entire year, so students have basically twice as long to complete the coursework as they would if they were really in college.

 

A dual credit course is an actual REAL college class taken while one is in high school. And it's usually done in a semester or at least in a shorter amount of time than an entire school year. And one is taking the real college level tests given throughout the course. So if one takes this class and passes it, one receives not only a high school level grade, say in English, but also one now has 3 credits to apply to one's transcript when one actually goes to college and one does not have to retake this course. In other words, you're taking college classes while you're in high school - not just classes that purport to be "like" college classes.

 

So why on earth a school would prefer the lower level, inferior course over the REAL college course work is completely beyond me.... But I'm betting there's some juicy beauracracy involved (as there is with similar matters in my state).....

 

It IS in a high school's best interest to favor AP, as it keeps students taking classes from them and their paid employees. It would be, however, in a college's best interest to favor dual credits, as these are real college level classes and would show that the student truly is prepared and able to do college level work on that schedule. So unless a particular college was working in tandem with a high school to restrict students to AP courses, I can't quite figure out why they would say they prefer them over dual credits....

 

Clear as mud?

 

Regena

[Nan in Mass]

I heard it was because CC classes are sometimes not very well taught and vary quite a lot from school to school. I think colleges think they know better what they are getting when they get a child that has passed an AP test? Maybe? And maybe AP classes are taught at a higher level than the local CC?

-Nan

[mcconnellboys]

Okay, I completely agree with that. But if you're taking classes from an actual state university, etc., as opposed to a community college, then what's their beef?

 

I'm seeing that in this state. In fact, they've created a "Commonwealth Diploma" that includes completion of about four AP courses (with testing for at least 3), and they specifically EXCLUDE dual credit courses in place of the AP's. That says to me that they want to keep the kids taking classes with their teachers (for which the high schools make money), rather than allowing them to attend college classes. It seems they could easily specify which colleges dual credits would be allowed from, as opposed to just any college.....

 

Regena

[Christine in FL]

...the reason that AP courses are preferred is that there is a standard that must be met for a student to score well in the class/test. With the dual enrollment course, a student must just pass the college course. There is no across-the-board standard. Although this is a sad commentary on our college system, it is the answer that I have been given. Interestingly enough, since our public schools do not offer AP courses, my son will have to take them through the FL virtual school. SO...he will take a college level course on-line without consistent professorial instruction and take the AP test or he can take a dual enrollment course which is done on-line without consistent professorial instruction and receive dual enrollment/college credit. As you said, clear as mud!:confused:

[Blue Hen]

You can investigate online AP courses. PA Homeschoolers has a very nice program available in a number of areas...

 

http://www.pahomeschoolers.com/courses/index.html

 

My son is presently taking AP Bio through PA HS'ers. Working out quiet well and the kids in his 'class' come from all over the world. Next year he will take several from them (and get me off the hook of teaching him :rolleyes:

[mcconnellboys]

Oh, my, LOL! Our educational system gets stranger and stranger every year, doesn't it?

 

Regena

[coloradostef]

To address the issue of Dual Enrollment vs. AP testing --

 

The first issue is that many colleges will not accept Community College credits -- so you want to investigate that issue if it is important to you. My son took CC classes but is wasn't important to him that they transfer. AP test scores are accepted more readily by all colleges -- so if you aren't sure what colleges your students might want to attend and you have some elite or small LAC schools on the list, AP might be the way to go.

 

As far as why a college would prefer AP test scores over CC classes it has to do with being able to compare students. The same AP test is given to all students -- so they are better able to compare how each student did. With CC classes it is well known that many are not even as good as a high school honors class -- with little analysis or writing involved in the learning process. There are also excellent CC classes out there -- but the quality is not even and colleges (other than the local one) do not have the knowledge or time to know whether an "A" at your local community college is worth a 5 on the AP test.

 

One solution is to do both (which is what my son did for a few of the tests) -- take the community college class, supplement with some independent study and take the AP test.

 

If your student doesn't have the opportunity to take CC classes (or you don't want them to), there are some excellent online courses. The PA Homeschooler's online classes are very well known and the kids do very well on the tests. FVS is also good -- but expensive, check out the online classes through the Center for Talent Development and some of the other online high schools that are associated through various universities.

 

http://www.pahomeschoolers.com/courses/

 

http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu/learning/coursesap.html (this program offers good financial aid, and requires qualification which can be done by testing or portfolio)

 

http://epgy.stanford.edu/ohs/AcademicProgram2008-09.pdf (Financial aid is available)

 

http://epgy.stanford.edu/courses/ (financial aid is available)

 

there are many more options -- do a google search.

 

Although it is a good idea to have some standardized courses when it comes time to applying to colleges, don't think you have to duplicate the high school transcript of your local public or private school. It is the uniqueness of the homeschool transcript that will make your student stand out. So -- even if there isn't an AP test that corresponds with Asian history, if that is your student's passion then that is the class he or she should take.

[Christine in FL]

I appreciate all the information that has been shared. With our first son in high school, I feel as if my learning curve for college prep is steep. The guidance counselor at our public high school is sweet, but not well informed. I worry that I'm going to miss an important step in making sure that everything is in order to allow my boys to pursue whatever post-high school education they may desire. Thanks for filling in some of the gaps!

[mysterious_jedi]

I don't know about where you'd take the test, but I don't see any reason you couldn't teach AP classes at home. You probably couldn't call it AP on the transcript, but at my college it's just the test score that counts. When I took AP Bio in high school, we mostly just read the book and notes and answered the questions. Then the teacher would answer our questions. We only did a couple of labs, and they were nothing elaborate (observe osmosis in different conc. slns, flower dissection, etc.) This method didn't do me any harm...I got a 5 on the AP and got out of my first two semesters of college bio (very helpful, as I'm a biology major)

 

This isn't really what you were asking, but perhaps you will find it encouraging if you try teaching an AP science at home :)

[Cindyg]

Yes you can! After you click Edit, click Go Advanced. That will take you to your title.

[Cindyg]

When you say, "Take the AP test," I don't really know what you mean by this. Are you saying there's one standard national test for, say, AP English? And where would you get this test? If I wanted to teach the curriculum of my choice, can I make it an AP course by having my son take "the AP test"? I never heard of such a thing. (I didn't go to a public school myself, so I'm clueless how it all works.) Can you tell me more?

[mysterious_jedi]

The AP is a series of standardized tests run by the same group as the SAT. You can take them at high schools and such. They are related to the CLEP tests, which are usually taken at colleges. You can't call a class AP on the transcript without special approval, but if you take the test and get a good score, a lot of colleges will accept that and give you credit for and/or let you place out of a class.

[Cindyg]

So if you take an AP class and do well in it, that gets you out of a college class? Is that standard procedure? Or do you take the CLEP test to get out of the college class? I've heard of "clepping" out of a class, but not "APing" out of a class. ?? (Am I confusing AP with CLEP?)

 

When you say, "You can't call a class AP on the transcript w/o special approval," --special approval from whom?

 

Thank you, Mysterious Jedi, for filling me in on the Mysterious AP procedure!

[mysterious_jedi]

special approval from the College Board people.

 

You can get out of a college class with either AP or CLEP. It's very helpful for registration, since college students with more credits get to register for classes earlier. I took the AP Bio exam and got 8 credits for that, and 4 credits from the AB Calc exam. What score you need and how many credits you get depends on the college.

[Ellyndria]

It's not just doing well in the AP class. Doing well in the AP class doesn't count aside from it being on your transcript. There is a separate AP test to take at the end, and it costs money to take the test. I took about three AP tests when I was in high school, but not everyone who was in my AP classes decided to take the test...I didn't take a test for all of my AP classes either. If you go to a bookstore and look at the section where they have all the study guides for the SAT, GRE, CLEP, etc, you will also find a ton of study guides for the different AP exams.