Classical Rhetoric with Aristotle - 1 Semester?

[amtmcm]

Is Classical Rhetoric with Aristotle by Memoria Press a 1 semester class? It looks like there are 16 lessons plus a bonus lesson on Shakespeare.

 

Could this be completed on top of WVWW I? Maybe if I spread it out over the year? Or would that be too much or maybe too redundant?

 

Thanks!

Edited July 22, 2009 by amtmcm

[amtmcm]

:lurk5:

[Kirsten in MO]

I can't answer your question, but I am planning to use this with my 11th grader this coming year. I suppose you can finish anything in a semester if you spend enough time on it. :) I noticed in the Memoria Press catalog that they now offer DVD instruction for this book, so if you used that, it would take more time watching the lectures. You could always call MP and ask.

 

I have used the Traditional Logic I (7th) TL II (8th) and Material Logic (9th) with my oldest son. I don't know yet the level of difficulty of Classical Rhetoric (I haven't actually seen the book) but MP recommends it for 10th and above, and I will say that the Material Logic was a weighty read and my son has pretty good higher level thinking skills! If Rhetoric is as weighty as Material Logic, I will plan to spend the entire year on it, from 30-60 minutes 3-4 days a week.

 

This probably didn't help you much, but thought I would tell you what we will probably do!

 

~Kirsten

[amtmcm]

Yes, I may end up calling them. The MP "contact us" link took me to a forum which looks exactly like this one and I would have to create an account to post my question. I thought I'd check here first. :)

 

Your post kind of confirms what I suspect.... the TOC looks like 16 lessons but I suspect each lesson is two weeks, not one week?

 

Their FAQ says 9th grade and up, so I'm looking for next year. DD will be doing WVWW and I thought studying Aristotle would coincide nicely with reading Homer & Virgil, but I think it may be too much. I'm all ears...:bigear:

[Janice H]

However, the intro. also says that "the course can be made into a semester course by dropping the Review Exercises and Weekly Research and Writing Assignments and concentrating only on the daily questions and, possibly, the Case Studies and weekly Reading Exercises. But, again, I recommend the bi-weekly approach." (Here Cothran is referring to the two weeks per chapter one-year schedule.)

 

Just so you know, I own the student ed., but haven't purchased the key yet.

 

Here at home we will start this in about the middle of 11th grade. I like the layout of the book and it is student self-directed. As much as I appreciate the Classical Writing series, we are probably going to skip Herodotus after finishing Chreia and do Cothran's book. We're going to do the 32 week program as it includes reviews of logic and How to Read a Book.

 

Kirsten, it sure looks easier and more fun than Logic II, which we will finally soon finish. Congratulations on doing the entire MP logic series--not for the faint of heart in my opinion.

[Tullia]

It could easily be done in a semester if all you want to do is read through Aristotle's work. If you intend to use all the activities, completing it in a semester would be tough, especially if you have other time-consuming courses. Reading Adler's Aristotle for Everybody first might be something you'd want to consider if this is your (or your student's) first time reading one of Aristotle's works.

 

Some possible options:

 

1. A single semester focusing mostly on Rhetoric and using only a few of the activities suggested in the course.

 

2. A full year using all or most of the suggested activities.

 

3. A two-credit course might be justified by expanding writing assignments and adding field trips.

 

HTH,

Martha

[amtmcm]

Thanks! That gives me a much better picture for my planning.

[Mama Lynx]

As much as I appreciate the Classical Writing series, we are probably going to skip Herodotus after finishing Chreia and do Cothran's book. We're going to do the 32 week program as it includes reviews of logic and How to Read a Book.

 

 

 

 

Would you be willing to share the reasons you're going to skip Herodotus to do Cothran's book instead?

 

We're just heading into Chreia this year. I enjoyed Maxim, but Chreia is making me nervous :)

[Janice H]

Would you be willing to share the reasons you're going to skip Herodotus to do Cothran's book instead?

Maybe the most important reason is that while I was torn between the two, in June I found Cothran's book for $5 at a used curriculum sale. In addition to the fact that I have it and have enjoyed skimming through it, dd would probably prefer Cothran's more linear layout of the text. It's all right there in the book without a necessary student guide, although the student obviously must refer to Aristotle and other books like How to Read a Book, Figures of Speech, etc.

 

Dd has gotten a lot out of the CW series and I see no competitor like it, but it is a little awkward to use and I sense dd is weary of it. I also own the D'Angelo book on composition and the Crowley rhetoric book, so I think I can cover the Herodotus material and maybe pick up CW again at the next level. I am, however, running out of homeschooling years with an only child who will be a junior in the fall.

 

With that said, Cothran does not say that his is a writing course per se with lots of how-to-write. CW and Cothran are not true substitutes for one another, but they have some overlap.

 

I don't think Chreia should give you any insurmountable troubles since you have been through Maxim. Chreia exercies build on Maxim; Chreia essays expand on the Maxim format. The rather abstract section on cause is a "do the best you can on this first exposure" kind of deal. Do it with your dc if you can; then discuss the challenges after you both wrestle with it a bit. "Cause" became less artificial for me the more I noticed its use in other writings and become more familiar with classical writing and logic.

[Mama Lynx]

Thanks - this was very helpful. Yes, I had been reading the "cause" section, and it had me worried. But we will just do what we can.

[lwilliams1922]

Has anyone seen the DVD lectures?

 

I don't have much in the budget but DD is a visual learner so now I'm on the fence.