Why SAT subject tests?

[Colleen]

A friend of mine asked about this on the Sonlight high school board and I thought I'd bring it over here since I'm interested in your thoughts. Why have you had/will you have your student(s) take SAT subject tests? What do you see as the benefit if a college doesn't specifically request or recommend those tests? Is it essentially to give the student a leg up on other applicants and/or just shore up their admissions paperwork?

Edited July 14, 2009 by Colleen

[Mama Lynx]

Several of the colleges I've investigated urge homeschoolers to take the SAT subject tests as a way of giving proof to the homeschool curriculum. It makes the colleges feel that they've got better proof that the student's homeschool work was, indeed, sufficient preparation.

[readwithem]

If the student is looking at ANY selective schools, they'll likely need to take subject tests. Many require 2 or 3. For some they're "highly recommended" but you can bet applicants WITH them will be given higher priority than those without. A friend's dd who had tons of APs but no SAT subjects was waitlisted at Vanderbilt, where the subjects are "highly recommended.

 

My dd's first choice school requires 5 SAT subject tests from homeschoolers. This has required careful planning during her junior year, but now that it's in our rearview mirror, we're ALL thrilled with the verification of our "mommy grades."

[Blue Hen]

FIVE!!! Oh my!

 

My son took SAT Subject test because one school he is thinking of applying to require 2 SAT Subject tests of all their applicants. He wouldn't have taken any otherwise.

 

Carole

[Karen in CO]

Many of the colleges we applied to required at least two from home schoolers and one of them had to be one of the math subject tests. And other tests were not accepted as substitutes - so they would accept SAT or ACT, but there had to be two SAT subject tests.

[readwithem]

FIVE!!! Oh my!

 

 

 

I know. :eek:

 

By the time I picked up my jaw from the floor, dd had figured out a game plan, including what she would take when. Other than the first one all her scores have been > 750 so she's pleased.

[Gwen in VA]

1) Verification of "mommy grades" -- providing a more "unbiased" assessment of what your child has learned

 

2) Requirements of some more elite colleges and even if they are not "required" they are often "highly recommended" for homeschoolers, which means that if your child really wants to get in, he should probably take a few.

 

3) if you are interested in admission and/or merit aid at top colleges, you need to go beyond the minimum "what the college requires." At this point, lots of colleges accept less than 25% of applicants, and some accept less than 10% of applicants. Your child's application needs to demonstrate that your child will not only thrive in the college but that he/she is "more deserving" of that admissions spot than some other students. SAT2 tests (especially if combined with good AP scores) can help the admissions person feel confident that your child has a strong academic background.

 

(Then there is the whole essay and extracurricular part of the application, but that's a different story.)

[Mama Lynx]

University of VA "strongly recommends" that applicants take two SAT II tests, and "strongly recommends" that homeschoolers take more than that.

 

Another VA school we've looked at "strongly recommends" that homeshcoolers take at least three SAT IIs, in different subjects (for instance, they like to see a history, an English, and a science, to show sufficient breadth).

[Musicmom]

Even if you're pretty sure your dc won't be applying to colleges that require SAT 2's, taking them all along during high school (and in most cases, like math and science, it's best to do them right after completing that subject) keeps your dc's options open when it comes time to apply to colleges. Also, if they apply to schools that don't require SAT 2's, high scores could help them get bigger scholarships, which are often awarded based on test scores and/or rigor of the high school program. Many state schools are anxious to attract top students by offering them substantial scholarships. On a visit to U of IA last spring, we learned from one of our student ambassadors (extremely bright guy) that he had been accepted at Vanderbilt, Duke and a couple other prestigious schools, but decided on IA--where he had received a 4 yr, full-ride scholarship.

[Lori D.]

What about CLEP testing right after finishing a subject in high school -- would a passing CLEP (which, I understand, grants college credit) bypass the need for subject SAT tests? Just arriving at the testing stage for the first time, and trying to sort it all out! Thanks in advance, Lori D.

[Mommyfaithe]

If the student is looking at ANY selective schools, they'll likely need to take subject tests. Many require 2 or 3. For some they're "highly recommended" but you can bet applicants WITH them will be given higher priority than those without. A friend's dd who had tons of APs but no SAT subjects was waitlisted at Vanderbilt, where the subjects are "highly recommended.

 

My dd's first choice school requires 5 SAT subject tests from homeschoolers. This has required careful planning during her junior year, but now that it's in our rearview mirror, we're ALL thrilled with the verification of our "mommy grades."

 

Which exams did you use?? Which High School courses did your dd do before prepping and which prep books did you use? I what grade did you begin to do subject tests and how did your dd do??

 

We are preparing now for these courses and I need all the info I can get...see my other posts <GRIN!!!>>

Faithe

[Mommyfaithe]

What about CLEP testing right after finishing a subject in high school -- would a passing CLEP (which, I understand, grants college credit) bypass the need for subject SAT tests? Just arriving at the testing stage for the first time, and trying to sort it all out! Thanks in advance, Lori D.

 

I would like to know this too...as CLEP's offer so many more options and subjects.

Thanks,

Faithe

[TravelingChris]

For my first child, he didn't want to do SAT IIs so we simply didn't have him apply to any colleges which required it. For child 2, I am of mixed mind. I know she won't be taking one yet but she may take a few next Spring if she does well enough on the practice tests. THe big difference is that score choice is available now. SO there is a lot less pressure than there used to be. We aren't going to send scores without seeing them first since she tends to be highly variable on her test taking abilities. For our third, I plan to have her take some since she will need scholarships. The first child received a half tuition scholarship with nothing extra. The second will be using the GI bill and the third will need merit aid.

[K-FL]

I would like to know this too...as CLEP's offer so many more options and subjects.

Thanks,

Faithe

 

CLEP is totally different--It's testing out of the class. SAT II is showing you're ready to take the class. CLEP's usually aren't as widely accepted at the more selective (Ivies, & little Ivies) schools, or for certain classes w/in a major.

[Musicmom]

What about CLEP testing right after finishing a subject in high school -- would a passing CLEP (which, I understand, grants college credit) bypass the need for subject SAT tests? Just arriving at the testing stage for the first time, and trying to sort it all out! Thanks in advance, Lori D.

 

CLEP is totally different--It's testing out of the class. SAT II is showing you're ready to take the class. CLEP's usually aren't as widely accepted at the more selective (Ivies, & little Ivies) schools, or for certain classes w/in a major.

 

:iagree:CLEP does not bypass the need for the SAT Subject Tests. The purpose of SAT Subject tests is to demonstrate academic excellence in the subject areas. The purpose of CLEP is to take a test in lieu of taking the college class in that subject--it can be useful if you're trying to reduce the time/cost of going to college (or if you happen to know the class in that subject at college X is a drudge! :)) Fewer and fewer colleges are accepting the CLEP exams, though, and it seems to me that the majority of the more selective colleges do not. If you look on the college board website, the profiles of the colleges show whether/which CLEP exams they accept.

 

We've done 4 SAT Subject tests, but no CLEPs.

[Laura in CA]

Just thought I'd mention that taking multiple SAT Subject Tests is nothing new. Back in the old days, I took a bunch of SAT Subject Tests (I think they were called Achievement Tests back then, in the 70s and 80s) -- and all on the same day (it never occurred to me to space them out a little!). The colleges I was applying to all had different requirements, so I ended up taking at least three. For example, Caltech wanted Math Level 2 and a science; Pomona said you could test out of their graduation requirement of two years of a foreign language by getting a certain score -- and I got *exactly* that score on the Latin test, haha -- so that would've saved me two years of foreign language *while in college*, giving me more time for other courses (I ended up taking German anyway and loved it). I went to public school, and applied to selective private colleges. Just fyi. I'm following all the SAT Subject Test threads with great interest, because my kids are just getting to this point! And how nice that they won't have to take more than one or two on any given day ;-)

 

~Laura

[Lori D.]

K-FL and MUSIC MOM: Thank you very much for the extra info on CLEP vs. SAT II -- very helpful! :)

[Colleen]

Thanks for the great info! I'm glad my friend asked this question because I'm learning a lot as I listen in. I have a question related to something that was mentioned here:

THe big difference is that score choice is available now. SO there is a lot less pressure than there used to be. We aren't going to send scores without seeing them first since she tends to be highly variable on her test taking abilities.

I've wondered about this, with respect not only to SAT subject tests, but the SAT and ACT as well. I think when I was in high school, scores were automatically sent to schools, which imo was really odd. I mean, if you pay to take a test, shouldn't you have the perogative to decide whether or not the results are sent out? How does it work now with respect to the different tests?

 

I went to public school, and applied to selective private colleges.

Same here, and I was accepted to all the schools to which I applied (back in 1987). I knew nothing about SAT subject tests, though. I don't even think I took the SAT, for that matter. Just the ACT. That, along with my transcript, etc was sufficient. So for me, this is a a learning curve!:tongue_smilie:

[LoriM]

I have two very good test-takers in my house (grin) and yet we took no SAT-II subject tests. Here in NC, we opted for CC classes for college credit (concurrent enrollment) and then transfering to the local university to complete the BA. So, my "mommy transcript" was not a factor AT ALL in my older dd's admission to the university. She was admitted based on her CC transcript and her ACT/SAT scores. The high school transcript I'd prepared was just there to check that box on the admission package. :)

 

My younger dd plans to apply at other NC universities (besides the local one), so we may rethink the SAT-II position, but not for another year. By then, we'll have a better idea about whether she's going to earn an AA at the community college or not. Students with an associate's degree really fall into a different path than high school students, IMHO.

 

Lori

[readwithem]

Thanks for the great info! I'm glad my friend asked this question because I'm learning a lot as I listen in. I have a question related to something that was mentioned here:I've wondered about this, with respect not only to SAT subject tests, but the SAT and ACT as well. I think when I was in high school, scores were automatically sent to schools, which imo was really odd. I mean, if you pay to take a test, shouldn't you have the perogative to decide whether or not the results are sent out? How does it work now with respect to the different tests?

 

 

You can request the scores be sent to 4 schools or scholarship groups for free, at the time of taking the test (i.e. before you know the scores). OR you can send the scores at any time afterwards for $9. (I believe that's right, we've never paid... yet). :)

 

It just got even more complicated, as College Board now has score choice. So a student can send any or all previous SAT and subject test scores.

 

ETA this is true for SAT. I don't know anything about ACT.:001_huh:

Edited July 14, 2009 by readwithem

[readwithem]

Which exams did you use?? Which High School courses did your dd do before prepping and which prep books did you use? I what grade did you begin to do subject tests and how did your dd do??

 

We are preparing now for these courses and I need all the info I can get...see my other posts <GRIN!!!>>

Faithe

 

My dd did 4 subject tests this past year - French, Lit, Math, and Chemistry - that combined with her PSAT and the SAT reasoning test, we called this her year of testing. I called the year to prove our mommy grades :)

 

I answered on your other thread, but she found in general she liked Princeton Review. We always got one other book. Oh and we have the College Board book of SAT subject tests, it has one previously administered test for each subject test. Take your student to a bookstore and have them spend some time looking at all the books available, to get a flavor for their layout, etc.

 

For textbooks, in general we used Bob Jones for math, though this year she used Foersters for pre-calc; Apologia for science, Rosetta Stone/French in Action and just a lot of reading for that Lit test ;)

 

She has requested that I not post her grades online but for all except French she scored > 750. French was her first test and in hindsight it may have been too early as that's a subject she'll continue to build during her high school career. She may retake it in the fall. And she'll take US History in the fall - as I mentioned earlier, her #1 choice requires 5 subject tests from homeschoolers, I haven't heard of any school requiring more than that :lol:

Edited July 14, 2009 by readwithem

[Jill- OK]

You can request the scores be sent to 4 schools or scholarship groups for free, at the time of taking the test (i.e. before you know the scores). OR you can send the scores at any time afterwards for $9. (I believe that's right, we've never paid... yet). :)

 

It just got even more complicated, as College Board now has score choice. So a student can send any or all previous SAT and subject test scores.

 

ETA this is true for SAT. I don't know anything about ACT.:001_huh:

 

This is the info I was wondering about; I was under the impression that some test scores were sent to your choice schools, no matter what, after taking the test. It's good to know that there's the option available to choose, at a later date.

[Colleen]

You can request the scores be sent to 4 schools or scholarship groups for free, at the time of taking the test (i.e. before you know the scores). OR you can send the scores at any time afterwards for $9. (I believe that's right, we've never paid... yet). :)

 

It just got even more complicated, as College Board now has score choice. So a student can send any or all previous SAT and subject test scores.

 

ETA this is true for SAT. I don't know anything about ACT.:001_huh:

Thanks for your reply. Can I just say I hate having all this additional "stuff" to deal with and think about as we enter the high school years? Blah. I wonder if there's a thread here wherein the nitty-gritty of testing is all laid out? Something like that would be a great sticky so people could reference it as needed...

[Colleen]

I have two very good test-takers in my house (grin) and yet we took no SAT-II subject tests. Here in NC, we opted for CC classes for college credit (concurrent enrollment) and then transfering to the local university to complete the BA. So, my "mommy transcript" was not a factor AT ALL in my older dd's admission to the university. She was admitted based on her CC transcript and her ACT/SAT scores. The high school transcript I'd prepared was just there to check that box on the admission package. :)

 

My younger dd plans to apply at other NC universities (besides the local one), so we may rethink the SAT-II position, but not for another year. By then, we'll have a better idea about whether she's going to earn an AA at the community college or not. Students with an associate's degree really fall into a different path than high school students, IMHO.

Thanks for mentioning this, Lori. At this point, at least, I'm assuming my guys will do Running Start (which is what we call it here in WA...the program whereby high school juniors & seniors can take courses at the community college). So, yes, in that circumstance, SAT subject tests might not be relevant. Although I think of them as a "may not help, certainly can't hurt" sort of thing.

[TravelingChris]

My dd who is entering 11th hasn't started really thinking about colleges yet so we don't know yet with her. On the other hand, my oldest who was homeschooled, applied to 7 colleges - all selective to very selective, and was admitted to 5. Not only did he not do any AP or SAT II tests, he also didn't take any cc classes. He only took the SAT and ACT. He received good scholarships at all his accepted schools except one and that had to do with his young age. (He was 16). He ended up going to a college with a half tuition scholarship which we were very happy about.

 

My next one will take the PSAT and SAT or ACT or both. Once she starts figuring out where she wants to apply, we will think about extra tests. SHe has one CC honors class already in her credit and will have more CC classes too. Actually most colleges don't require SAT IIs and my kids don't like wasting Saturdays taking tests that aren't needed. If they are needed, we will do it.

[Nan in Mass]

Most colleges don't require SAT2s? My impression was that many of them don't require them unless the student was homeschooled, in which case they begin saying they'd like to see them. Maybe I'm wrong? I'm not sure where I got that idea.

 

-Nan

[TravelingChris]

No, they don't require them. And they also mostly don't require them for homeschoolers. Now if they don't have any other way to establish compentence and it is a stretch school for your student, then yes. I don't have any scores for my soon to be 11th grader yet. I consider her 1oth grade PSAT score useless since she had a migraine. She didn't do horribly but not as well as I know she could do without a headache. If she does well on either SAT or ACT (and particularly ACT since a number of colleges don't care about the SAT IIs if you did that test), she may or may not take any SAT IIs. It all depends on the colleges. My son applied to 6 or 7 for 2005 and none required SAT IIs or specially recommended them for homeschoolers. We looked at many more colleges and most didn't either. Overall, it is usually only some of the very selective colleges and some very anti-homeschooling colleges that require these. In my dd's case, she will have outside grades from Florida Virtual, co-op classes, CC classes in at least two states, and probably CLEP tests. Yes, they may not accept CLEP but that is another verification of mommy grades. Generally most just check mommy grades with test scores the same as they do for school systems they don't know. IF your child has 4.0 but low scores, that might be a problem. Ver few colleges are actually all that selective. Most accept most students. As a speaker at a homeschool conference told us, we homeschoolers tend to be much tougher on our kids in terms of academic rigor. That is because we see one child's writing and then compare it to our own. Then we compare our children to all the gifted children who are homeschooled (about 50% are). But we don't compare total people --- we remember 'Jake' who blows through Calc and Physics early and we remember 'Joe' who gets 5s on AP English and World History and we come up with every homeschooler is getting Calc, Physics, AP English, AP World History and a few more thrown in. THen we read about some winner of the National Science Fair or some high pressure school in NYC and we get the misimpression that Sally Above Average is really Sally can't do anything except flip burgers. Totally untrue. If you live in a high pressure area, please remember that that is a very small percentage of students in the US>

[K-FL]

The 1st time dd#1 took the ACT we didn't have the scores sent to any schools (she was only 14.) The later ones we did. I think they'll send 4 for free (schools, NCAA, scholarships, etc.), but if you want more it's $9/ea.

 

In our experience, the SATII weren't required if you'd taken the class at the cc. In the state system, they have to transfer & most privates (at least in state) honor them too. Seems that if you've taken the college level class, even an extremely selective school would see that you can handle college level classes w/o the need of an additional test--but maybe not.

 

In our state system, U of FL is the most selective & they do require SATII's. However, I was told they prefer dc to have taken those basic pre-reqs in the cc (to free up space I presume.)

Edited July 15, 2009 by K-FL

[Colleen]

No, they don't require [sAT subject tests]. And they also mostly don't require them for homeschoolers....Overall, it is usually only some of the very selective colleges and some very anti-homeschooling colleges that require these.

While I admittedly don't have your firsthand experience, I've looked into this quite a bit since I originally posted and what I found is not reflective of what you're saying here. I looked at admission requirements for a number of schools ~ just randomly chosen, not necessarily "very selective" and not, to the best of my knowledge, "very anti-homeschooling". Many of them either require or strongly recommends SAT2s.

 

Homeschoolers applying to the University of Washington and using the SAT for admission need further evidence (e.g. SAT subject tests, ACT subscores, or AP exams) of having met science requirements. Further validation (aside from a transcript) is needed of foreign language as well. Both the University of Oregon and Oregon State University require two SAT2s of homeschooled applicants.

 

I have no idea if any or all of my children will choose to attend college, and they'll likely all utilize Running Start, whereby they enroll in community college courses as high school juniors and seniors. Nonetheless, from this vantage point, I can't see a good reason not to take the SAT2s.

Very few colleges are actually all that selective. Most accept most students.

Most colleges accept most students? I think you're mistaken there ~ particularly as the number of applicants has skyrocketed in just the past few years.

As a speaker at a homeschool conference told us, we homeschoolers tend to be much tougher on our kids in terms of academic rigor.

That may be true of the people in this particular community (the WTM high school regulars, that is), but in general, I wholeheartedly disagree. Edited July 15, 2009 by Colleen

[readwithem]

What is a scholarship group? New term to me.

 

My vague description of groups like National Merit :001_smile:

[readwithem]

Thanks for your reply. Can I just say I hate having all this additional "stuff" to deal with and think about as we enter the high school years? Blah. I wonder if there's a thread here wherein the nitty-gritty of testing is all laid out? Something like that would be a great sticky so people could reference it as needed...

 

It's very confusing.

 

And score choice just makes it more confusing.

 

But my friends with more experience say applications and all the gc stuff we have to do junior/senior year is a cakewalk compared to all the things that must be done before they start college - so many forms to complete, vaccinations to get, dorm stuff to buy.....:tongue_smilie:

[Guest Barb B]

Well, One scary thing about testing - you never know how they will score. From our opinion practice test are usefull, but nothing like the real thing. There is score choice, but even with SAT II's some colleges ask that you send all the scores. So, if one does poor on a test you have to either send it with the rest or don't send it but say you sent all. So from that perspective, there is a good reason NOT to take them.

 

DS took SAT physics. He had done well in saxon physics and in practice tests and studying for the test. But he got in the 500's. The test is sooo much different then any physics book problems probably because they have so many problems to do in one hour. He said he really wished there were long math physics problems to do instead of what there was. Anyway, I won't have him take a Sat II test unless he gets really high on several publishers practice tests (in our experience you really can't go by practice tests scores - ds was scoring well on the practice tests . He also scored well on SAT I so it wasn't test anxiety).

 

Just my 2 cents. If your child is one of those who never scores below 750 then fine. But if not then it is a diffiicult decision. The average scores for SAT I are in the 500's so when my DS scores in the 600's I consider that a good score. But the average scores for the SAT II tests are higher. I hate the fact that colleges have come to a point in thinking that a SAT II test below 700 is bad and one in the upper 500's - low 600's is practically failing!

 

I didn't mean to pick on any previous posts. Just venting and sharing my experience thus far!

 

Barb

[Colleen]

 

I hate the fact that colleges have come to a point in thinking that a SAT II test below 700 is bad and one in the upper 500's - low 600's is practically failing!

I have no idea what the scoring system is like for either the SAT or the SAT subject tests. Can someone put these numbers in context for me?

 

[Guest Barb B]

Colleen,

 

It is very confusing. Basically 800 is a perfect score for an individual SAT subject test and also for individual parts of the SAT I test (meaning Math, critical reading and writing portions). Somewhere on the College Board site they have the national averages for all the tests. The avereage for most portions of the SAT I test are somewhere around 500. The averages for SAT II tests are higher then that. Basically you are competing against everyone else and being compared to the national averages.

 

Hope this helps and not confuses you more.

 

There are some capable of perfect scores, yet most are not. It just is my experience that people see anything not near perfect for SAT II scores as bad. Also the SAT test is a reasoning test - even the subject ones. The questions are just different - its hard to explain. It usually comes across like the questions are trying to trick you instead of just testing content area in a straightforward way.

 

Sorry, for the long reply. You can tell I really think the SAT business is a scam and a bunch of nonsense that we unfortunately have to do.

 

Barb

Edited July 15, 2009 by Barb B

[Colleen]

 

Basically 800 is a perfect score for an individual SAT subject test and also for individual parts of the SAT I test (meaning Math, critical reading and writing portions).

Thanks!

 

[Nan in Mass]

To get a feel for this, you can go to the college board site and check out the average SAT scores for various colleges. It won't help with the SAT IIs but it will help with the SATs.

[Guest Barb B]

To all,

Back to the original question: I've looked at maybe 8 or so colleges so far as serious choices for ds. None require or even suggest SAT II tests. I have also looked into more then this just to look and have only encounterd 1 (that we aren't interested in anyway) that required homeschoolers to take SAT II's. So, is it truely needed? How on earth do I decide. Ds has that one not so good SAT II score which I guess makes me wary of him taking more. I mean the tests only make you more competitive if you do well.

 

For an example, I know a Mom - her oldest just took the SAT I test and got a full scholarship to University of Dallas. He never took SAT II tests, AP exams, . . . Just the mom transcript and SAT I test. It seems like it can be done. Last year my ds in 10th took the SAT I twice and the SAT II physics once and we felt so much time was spent preparing for these (he did really study). I'm not sure how much time I want him to spend away from his curriculum to prepare for these dumb things.

 

Barb

[TravelingChris]

:iagree: with Barb. That is what I find to be true. And Colleen, check out the U. od Washington admission requirements for homeschoolers= take the ACT and take a language class or some other language class and you are fine.

 

If your kid is not a great test taker or has any issues at all with tests, speed, the subject, etc., don't take the SAT II unless you have to. I remember way long time ago, some college I was applying to required SAT II. I did poorly (high 500, low 600). I had already applied Early Action before this to my first choice. I got accepted to my first choice and they never saw my middling SAT II (called something else then). I ended college with a good GPA, my language score which was the worse was such a poor predictor since I do pick up languages much quicker than most, and I only stopped my PhD because of my family issues- not any academic ones since I completed all my coursework with almost a 4.0. But you wouldn't know that from my SAT II scores. (Oh and I also topped out the percentage on the GRE analytical score).

 

The problem with the SAT II is that very few colleges require them and those are usually ones with the most selective requirements. Oh, and the other group is homeschoolers who are required to jump through hoops. If my child is not in contention to go to the most competetive schools (notice that I don't say the best since who says they are the best- best in what- maybe name recognition but not necessarily best education at all since plenty of schools where a high number of grads go on to further education do not require them), why would I have her compete with those who are going to those schools and only those? It skews the percentages out of favor to all but the best SAT II test takers.

[Blue Hen]

Colleen,

 

Somewhere on the College Board site they have the national averages for all the tests. The avereage for most portions of the SAT I test are somewhere around 500. The averages for SAT II tests are higher then that. Basically you are competing against everyone else and being compared to the national averages.

 

What I found on the College Board site is a State Profile Report. Here's my state's profile:

http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/Delaware_CBS_08.pdf

 

I found it quite interesting to look over the SAT2 numbers, but then I like Statistics. :)

 

Carole

[Mama Lynx]

In my research so far, I have found many schools that are not elite, and that are not anti-homeschooling at all, but strongly encourage or require SAT II tests.

 

Perhaps there is a regional component here. So far every college I've looked at in Virginia at least "strongly encourages" SAT II exams. So as of right now, we are planning to take somewhere between two and five, depending on ds' college choices as the time nears.

 

We will probably do some cc as well. We will simply not have the money to help our kids with college; if they want to go, they *must* be competitive for scholarships. SATII tests seem to be a low-cost way to help with this.

[Guest Barb B]

:iagree:And I agree with you Colleen! It is reasuring to hear from someone that it is the most selective schools that require SAT II's. And I might add that they usually require them of all applicants not just homeschoolers. I also agree that these schools are not always the best! So, that said I will wait till spring and have ds take a practice test in an SAT II subject befor we decide if it is worth it to pursue these SAT II tests again.

 

I sometimes think as homeschool mom's we can get cought up in the feeling that we have to prove our kids education. I just don't know if this is true with most colleges though. Think about it - in their eyes a transcript from some high school they know nothing about is the same as one of ours. So, basically I hear at times that they will take each kids transcript along with SAT I or ACT score for what they are and not require additional proof. It seems that most schools (except those annoying selective schools) actually use SAT II's like CLEP or AP - for placement and to place out of classes - not for admission. Since I don't care to have ds place out of classes then why bother with these tests?

 

Some moms say why not take them: well 1. some colleges will request to see all dc's scores (you might not be able to hide those lower scores) 2. they do take time to prep for. I can tell you my ds for half of 10th grade spent several hours daily preping (less at first then gradually built up to more as he got closer). HE was preping for SAT I (he is ahead in math so we thought it might be a good idea to take will algebra and geometry was still fresh) and SAT II physics. It was frustrating because I knew of all the worth while things he could have been doing instead! You might say that studying for this stuff was valuable because it is basic subjects that are good to review. But alot of the SAT has to do with reasoning and that translates into preparing for questions that are actually tricky ( it seems that SAT tries to trick one in answering wrong). The SAT really just tests how well you take the SAT tests!

 

As a final note - colleges in Texas are forbidden by law to require anything extra of homeschoolers! You won't find one here in Texas that will expect anything more then Mom transcript and SAT or ACT!

 

Sorry for the long post again! Just trying to get my own thoughts together on this issue!

 

Barb

Edited July 16, 2009 by Barb B

[Colleen]

And Colleen, check out the U. od Washington admission requirements for homeschoolers= take the ACT and take a language class or some other language class and you are fine.

I'm aware of the University of Washington's requirements. Here's what I said in my previous reply to you:

"Homeschoolers applying to the University of Washington and using the SAT for admission need further evidence (e.g. SAT subject tests, ACT subscores, or AP exams) of having met science requirements. Further validation (aside from a transcript) is needed of foreign language as well."

 

I was speaking of homeschoolers using the SAT for admission.

 

The problem with the SAT II is that very few colleges require them and those are usually ones with the most selective requirements.

As is evidenced by some other posts here, there's disagreement on this. I think it would be more accurate to say you've come across very few schools that require the subject tests.:)

[Guest Barb B]

This is interesting. I have been wondering if there is a regional componant. So far no school we looked at care about SAT II and they are all in the mid section of the country besides the ones here in Texas. My sister lives in Virginia and doesn't home school - her kids basically looked at schools out east and her kids all took some SAT II tests. So it seems there could be a regional componant to this whether you home school or not.

 

As is evidenced by some other posts here, there's disagreement on this. I think it would be more accurate to say you've come across very few schools that require the subject tests.:)

 

:iagree:Yes, good idea! It seems I'm lucky that the ones I've come acroos don't (Air force academy, Texas A & M, Texas Tech, Auburn Univ. , Purdue Univ. are 5 we looked at that don't. I have others we might consider as well that also don't care about SAT II's). In fact most of the web sites of these schools seem to say that the requirements for homeschooled students are the same as other students.

 

It might be neat to have others post the schools they have looked at. Especially those that require or encourage SAT II's! That would be a great resource!

 

Barb

[HollyinNNV]

Thanks Carole!

I was able to fill in my state's name in place of Delaware and the report came right up. That was very interesting. DD did very well when compared with other students in our state.

Holly

 

What I found on the College Board site is a State Profile Report. Here's my state's profile:

http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/Delaware_CBS_08.pdf

 

I found it quite interesting to look over the SAT2 numbers, but then I like Statistics. :)

 

Carole

[TravelingChris]

I certainly agree that I didn't look at 3000 college requirements. Bu I have looked at an awful lot of them (though not many in New England since my first kid was not going there since it was the one part of the country he had never visited). I am on my second go round of choosing colleges. They both had some similarities- liberal arts majors - but many differences. DS was a commended student and would have been a finalist if we hadn't moived to the hardest area to become a finalist (overseas). He was also interested in history and wasn't interested in pre-professional programs. DD will not be a commended student most likely since she normally tests a bit lower than he did. She is interested in pre-professional programs. But one thing that I have done that many others haven't is look for colleges throughout the USA. That is because we are active duty military and there is no place that we know will be close to home. We have absolutely no idea where we will be living wheen dd goes to college. We did know where we were living when ds went to college- in another continent. But we had no idea where we would be living when he was a sophomore. Beacuse of pecularities with the GI bill, we have zero reason to limit our dd to going to our home state. SHe hasn't expressed interest in any specific college at all yet (just like my son at this point in his hs career) and I am scrambling to find colleges she may want to apply to that we do want to visit in case my dh gets command and we move in less than year again. Then we have the lovely aspect of homeschooling high school in three states or areas with one kid. Because of that, I am researching both this time and least, hundreds of colleges. Most do not require SAT 2s. Some do. CHeck where your child is applying. I also don't see why you wouldn't have your child just take the ACT and forget about the SAT if you are applying to a school that requires 2 tests for SAT but only 1 for ACT applicants. ACT is easier to study for also since it involves more straightforward knowledge and less tricks.

[Guest Barb B]

We are taking the ACT this Dec. I here it is a very different test and more science oriented (not only in the science section but in the reading as well). It is good to know that some colleges require only ACT for the ACT takers but 2 SAT's for SAT takers! This is good to remember and check

 

Barb

[Colleen]

But one thing that I have done that many others haven't is look for colleges throughout the USA.

Out of curiousity, why do you think many others don't look at schools throughout the country? That wasn't my reality when I applied to colleges, and it's not the reality of many people I know.

 

At this point, as I said elsewhere, I have no idea whether my guys will go to four-year colleges (I don't push the issue), and even my oldest gives no thought whatsoever to where he'd want to go to college, if he does go. So when I check out info on schools, I just randomly choose some to look into ~ always a cross-section of public and private, big and small, and geographically diverse.

[Nan in Mass]

I think the "North East" bit of your statement might be why people keep discussing this. I have noticed in the past that there is a disconnect between NE and the rest of the US.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Nan in Mass