Reya Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 We continued this for quite a while, but I was giving too much time to it in the evenings and weaseled out of it when relatives came. The lasting change was my looking over the curriculum and condensing it a bunch more. DS remembered it again and cried foul. After a lot of soul-searching, I decided that it wasn't in his best interests to do the algebra book I intended for later and instead have substituted IMACS' Operational Systems book, which is intended for the top 2% of 6th graders and lays an "intuitive foundation" for their program that teaches college-level math to middle and high schoolers. This has been PREFECT because it requires a LOT more sophisticated thinking than the algebra book, but OTOH, it doesn't require hardly any writing yet. We do just 15 minutes a night, so 1-2 exercises. It's fun. It's mind-expanding for him. And it is enormously appealing in its format to the mathy kid. This, I am about 100 times happier with. We'll still be doing algebra fulltime before 2nd grade, no question, but this keeps everything sequential while allowing great sophistication along a tangent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Sounds awesome!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 That sounds like a neat program. I will have to look into it when we get to that point. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forty-two Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 ...have substituted IMACS' Operational Systems book, which is intended for the top 2% of 6th graders and lays an "intuitive foundation" for their program that teaches college-level math to middle and high schoolers.Where did you get the book? I've wanted to get a set of those books, but couldn't find them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHGrandma Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Where did you get the book? I've wanted to get a set of those books, but couldn't find them. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I'm wondering where to get them, too! :001_smile: Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 IMACS books are the Elements of Mathematics series. My understanding (after some serious surfing) is that they EM copyright is now owned by IMACS. I sent an email and contacted them and was able to buy the books. I used them as a student in middle school and they're GREAT! The drawback to using them with homeschool is that although you may be able to buy the books, they don't sell any ancillaries - so no answer keys or test banks. They do a logic course online. The logic is mathematical logic (truth tables, tautologies, later paragraph proofs) and I was amazed in undergrad to take courses that included work I'd done in 7th and 8th grade. I'm working through the books now to make answer keys for my son when he gets to middle school and we start the books. If you don't have a solid math background, the series may not be the best way to go even if you can get the books. On the other hand, looking over the books I'm amazed at how much really solid math is packed into them. You can find some info at http://www.imacs.org/ I'd also be interested in anyone else's experience with the EM books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I'm working through the books now to make answer keys for my son when he gets to middle school and we start the books. If you don't have a solid math background, the series may not be the best way to go even if you can get the books. On the other hand, looking over the books I'm amazed at how much really solid math is packed into them.I've been flirting with getting the series, but I'm wondering how it might compare to what I've been doing... pulling chapters here and there from books we have lying around the house, in addition to a number of supplements. Would it be possible for you to scan the Table of Contents from Book 1 "Introduction to Logic," Book 2 "Logic and Sets," Book 4 "Introduction to Fields," or Book 0 "Introduction to Number Theory"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Would it be possible for you to scan the Table of Contents from Book 1 "Introduction to Logic," Book 2 "Logic and Sets," Book 4 "Introduction to Fields," or Book 0 "Introduction to Number Theory"? I don't have easy access to a scanner :( but a general overview is at http://www.megsss.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=62 When I was in MEGSSS classes, we worked through all of Book 0 (consisting of 15 separately published "Chapters") and Book 1 and 2. I'm not sure if we worked in Book 3 at all or not. I haven't looked closely at the logic books, but my memory of them is that they were as good as the ones I used as an undergrad. I'll post bits of contents in subsequent posts here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I don't have easy access to a scanner :( but a general overview is at http://www.megsss.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=62 When I was in MEGSSS classes, we worked through all of Book 0 (consisting of 15 separately published "Chapters") and Book 1 and 2. I'm not sure if we worked in Book 3 at all or not. I haven't looked closely at the logic books, but my memory of them is that they were as good as the ones I used as an undergrad. I'll post bits of contents in subsequent posts here.... Brilliant. :D Thanks so much... I'd searched for something like this, but came up dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 190 pages (containing index and appendices, but no solutions) Ch 1 - The Formal Language Introduction, Negation, Conjunction & Disjunction, Sentences and Well Formed Formulas, Truth Tables, Implication, Tautologies-Equivalence of Formulas, Some Useful Equivalences - The Substitution Principle, Instantation of Formulas by Formulas - The Tautology Principle Ch 2 - Introduction to Demonstrations Modus Ponens - A First Look at Demonstrations, Conjunctive Inference and Conjunctive Simplification, Contrapositive Inference and Modus Tollens, Syllogistic Inference and Inferece by Cases, Subroutines Involving hte Biconditional - The General Substitution Principle, Are All the Connectives Necessary?, The Deduction Theorem, Using the Deduction Theorem, Object Language and Metalanguage - the Principle of Indirect Inference Ch 3 - The Propositional Calculus A Review, The Propositional Calculus and Open Sentences, The LImitations of the Propositional Calculus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Brilliant. :D Thanks so much... I'd searched for something like this, but came up dry. Well, you have to know to search for MEGSSS. I can't tell you how long I surfed looking for the books. Finally ended up sending out emails and then when I was able to buy them, just bought everything. I'm sure we won't use them all, but I've got them! I think I'll end up going to my grad school books for reference when working up the solution sets though if I get to the later books. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 276 pg including index and appendices (first appendix is Greek alphabet, so getting to serious proofs in this book!) Ch 1 - Logic and Sets Introduction, Set Theory, Primitive Notions, Elementary Properties of Sets Ch 2 - A Logic for Set Theory The Formal Language, Rules of Inference - Demonstrations, The Comprehension Principle and Properties of Equality, Rules of Inference for the Existential Quantifier, Proofs from Demonstrations, THe Deduction Theorem Revisited Ch 3 - Set Theory Relations and FUnctions, Zermelo Set Theory Ch 4 - Logic Another Formal System, First Order Logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Going very general here... I'm quite sure I didn't get to this book, although I do recall doing group and ring theory (probably somewhere in Book 0). This looks much more like formal algebra... 294 pages including appendices and index (and selected reference material from books 1-2 and 3) Chapters are Fields Equations in a Field (includes Cramer's Rule for 2x2 system of equations as examples... I'm impressed) Multiples and Powers in a Field Elementary Polynomial Functions over a Field Ordered Fields Applications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 276 pg including index and appendices (first appendix is Greek alphabet, so getting to serious proofs in this book!) You're making me giddy. :) Thanks, and I'm sold. I won't be able to pick the first year of EM books up for a month or two, but I'd be more than willing to collaborate on answer keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Book 0 is much more like the CSMP materials. In fact, it appears to me that there's some overlap between them. If you're thinking of going the EM route, Book 0, 1, and 2 is probably enough to give a really solid foundation. Book 0 is separate "books" that are called "chapters". Many of them are only 100 pages or so which is how the MEGSSS program is able to go through a few Chapters in a year. Chapter 1: Operational Systems (includes modulo arithmetic with addition and multiplication - this is the book I'm currently working through right now :001_smile: ) Ch 2: The Integers Ch 3: Sets, Subsets and Operations with Sets Ch 4: Ordered n-Tuples Ch 5: Mappings Ch 6: The Rational Numbers Ch 7: Decimals and an Application of the Rational Numbers Ch 8: An Introduction to Probability Ch 9: An Introduction to Number Theory Ch 10: Algebra in Operational Systems Ch 11: Algebra of Real Functions Ch 12: Geometry: Incidence and Isometries Ch 13: Geometry: Similitudes, Coordinates and Trigonometry Ch 14: Topics in Probabilty and Statistics Ch 15: Topics in Number Theory Hope all this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Book 0 is much more like the CSMP materials. In fact, it appears to me that there's some overlap between them.I don't recall the exact history, but EM did grow out of that project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHGrandma Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 In my search for this material I found http://www.time4learning.com/gifted/i.htm offers 2 of the IMACS courses, and the assessment is free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 In my search for this material I found http://www.time4learning.com/gifted/i.htm offers 2 of the IMACS courses, and the assessment is free. These are also offered as online courses on the IMACS website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Yes, here: http://www.imacs.org/ I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE these! I WISH I had these as a kid! They are SO awesome! *calms down* You have to email the contact for a pricelist, then send in a check. I have info about which to order when, but it's in the bedroom with a sleeping husband (yes, I am typing in the bath...), so I don't have access at the moment. DELETED see below I can't tell you how FUN these are--but, yes, no answer key! IF you finish the series, you finish up through junior level of a math major, meaning you're ready for senior level work. That's right--topology and real analysis in high school, and all of it written with the spirit of people who "feel the music" of math. Edited July 10, 2009 by Reya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I have info about which to order when, but it's in the bedroom with a sleeping husbandHere's the info they sent me: most middle schools that use the EM Books complete Book 0 Chapters 1-9 and Book 1 in 6th grade, Book 0 Chapters 10 & 12 and Book 2 in 7th grade, and Book 0 Chapters 11 & 13 and Book 3 in 8th grade. Here's the books and a price list (finally figured out I can cut and paste from a PDF): Book 0, Chapter 1: Operational Systems 20.00 Book 0, Chapter 2: The Integers 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 3: Sets, Subsets and Operations with Sets 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 4: Ordered n-Tuples 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 5: Mappings 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 6: The Rational Numbers 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 7: Decimals and an Application of the Rational Numbers 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 8: An Introduction to Probability 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 9: An Introduction to Number Theory 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 10: Algebra in Operational Systems 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 11: Algebra of Real Functions 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 12: Geometry: Incidence and Isometries 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 13: Geometry: Similitudes, Coordinates and Trigonometry 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 14: Topics in Probability and Statistics 20.00 Book 1: Introductory Logic 28.00 Book 2: Logic and Sets 30.00 Book 3: Introduction to Fields 31.50 Book 4: Relations 31.50 Book 5: Functions 55.00 Book 6: Number Systems 71.00 Book 7: Elementary Real Analysis 88.00 Book 8: Mathematics: Origins and Foundations call Book 9: Linear Algebra 78.00 Book 10: Groups and Rings 78.00 Book B: EM Problem Book 21.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 You've got it! I was trying to do it off the top of my head. (Hey, I talked to you about this before!) Listen to her. I'm deleting my post. BTW, I've HEARD that there's a lot of writing in Book 1. Here's the info they sent me: most middle schools that use the EM Books complete Book 0 Chapters 1-9 and Book 1 in 6th grade, Book 0 Chapters 10 & 12 and Book 2 in 7th grade, and Book 0 Chapters 11 & 13 and Book 3 in 8th grade. Here's the books and a price list (finally figured out I can cut and paste from a PDF): Book 0, Chapter 1: Operational Systems 20.00 Book 0, Chapter 2: The Integers 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 3: Sets, Subsets and Operations with Sets 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 4: Ordered n-Tuples 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 5: Mappings 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 6: The Rational Numbers 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 7: Decimals and an Application of the Rational Numbers 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 8: An Introduction to Probability 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 9: An Introduction to Number Theory 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 10: Algebra in Operational Systems 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 11: Algebra of Real Functions 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 12: Geometry: Incidence and Isometries 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 13: Geometry: Similitudes, Coordinates and Trigonometry 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 14: Topics in Probability and Statistics 20.00 Book 1: Introductory Logic 28.00 Book 2: Logic and Sets 30.00 Book 3: Introduction to Fields 31.50 Book 4: Relations 31.50 Book 5: Functions 55.00 Book 6: Number Systems 71.00 Book 7: Elementary Real Analysis 88.00 Book 8: Mathematics: Origins and Foundations call Book 9: Linear Algebra 78.00 Book 10: Groups and Rings 78.00 Book B: EM Problem Book 21.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 These are also offered as online courses on the IMACS website. The online courses are lightweight versions. FYI! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 And if you order all the books (yup, I'm insane), you've got about 2 feet of math to work through. (My husband said he was okay viewing the books as a present for me instead of only as homeschool material.) Books are 8.5x11" size, bound with the spiral sort of binding you get at Kinkos. It's a bit annoying that they don't lie as flat as I'd like. It's also strange not having Book 1 and 2 covers as green. I'm unsure what you mean, Reya, by "a lot of writing" in Book 1. :confused: It looks like good explanations, and students fill in reasons for proofs, but it's not like some texts where a student would need to explain in a paragraph or essay why something is happening. Only book I didn't get was Book 8. If anyone gets it, I'd be interested in pricing and contents. We may even want a thread if a couple of people do use these for discussion about any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 We may even want a thread if a couple of people do use these for discussion about any problems.I intend to go through all the problems myself and would be more than willing to compare/contrast with others doing the same. We already have enough to keep DD the Elder going for another year before starting EM, so I have plenty of time to work through the problems. It will take a couple months to get the money set aside, but at that time I'll purchase the first year's worth plus Book 2: Logic & Sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fractalgal Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Here's the info they sent me: most middle schools that use the EM Books complete Book 0 Chapters 1-9 and Book 1 in 6th grade, Book 0 Chapters 10 & 12 and Book 2 in 7th grade, and Book 0 Chapters 11 & 13 and Book 3 in 8th grade. Here's the books and a price list (finally figured out I can cut and paste from a PDF): Book 0, Chapter 1: Operational Systems 20.00 Book 0, Chapter 2: The Integers 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 3: Sets, Subsets and Operations with Sets 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 4: Ordered n-Tuples 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 5: Mappings 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 6: The Rational Numbers 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 7: Decimals and an Application of the Rational Numbers 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 8: An Introduction to Probability 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 9: An Introduction to Number Theory 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 10: Algebra in Operational Systems 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 11: Algebra of Real Functions 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 12: Geometry: Incidence and Isometries 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 13: Geometry: Similitudes, Coordinates and Trigonometry 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 14: Topics in Probability and Statistics 20.00 Book 1: Introductory Logic 28.00 Book 2: Logic and Sets 30.00 Book 3: Introduction to Fields 31.50 Book 4: Relations 31.50 Book 5: Functions 55.00 Book 6: Number Systems 71.00 Book 7: Elementary Real Analysis 88.00 Book 8: Mathematics: Origins and Foundations call Book 9: Linear Algebra 78.00 Book 10: Groups and Rings 78.00 Book B: EM Problem Book 21.00 Just wanted to say that this looks great! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 How do you order the books? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawna in Texas Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Here's the info they sent me: most middle schools that use the EM Books complete Book 0 Chapters 1-9 and Book 1 in 6th grade, Book 0 Chapters 10 & 12 and Book 2 in 7th grade, and Book 0 Chapters 11 & 13 and Book 3 in 8th grade. Here's the books and a price list (finally figured out I can cut and paste from a PDF): Book 0, Chapter 1: Operational Systems 20.00 Book 0, Chapter 2: The Integers 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 3: Sets, Subsets and Operations with Sets 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 4: Ordered n-Tuples 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 5: Mappings 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 6: The Rational Numbers 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 7: Decimals and an Application of the Rational Numbers 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 8: An Introduction to Probability 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 9: An Introduction to Number Theory 14.50 Book 0, Chapter 10: Algebra in Operational Systems 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 11: Algebra of Real Functions 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 12: Geometry: Incidence and Isometries 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 13: Geometry: Similitudes, Coordinates and Trigonometry 30.50 Book 0, Chapter 14: Topics in Probability and Statistics 20.00 Book 1: Introductory Logic 28.00 Book 2: Logic and Sets 30.00 Book 3: Introduction to Fields 31.50 Book 4: Relations 31.50 Book 5: Functions 55.00 Book 6: Number Systems 71.00 Book 7: Elementary Real Analysis 88.00 Book 8: Mathematics: Origins and Foundations call Book 9: Linear Algebra 78.00 Book 10: Groups and Rings 78.00 Book B: EM Problem Book 21.00 Like I need another math to consider, but for 6th grade would you do Book 1 after chapters 1-9 in Book 0, or at the same time? I'm considering messing around with this (the no solutions is something I'm not sure I want to tackle, but maybe I will) and would want to get maybe a few Chapters from Book 0 to check out. I just need to know if the Logic is taught simultaneously. TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Like I need another math to consider, but for 6th grade would you do Book 1 after chapters 1-9 in Book 0, or at the same time? I'm considering messing around with this (the no solutions is something I'm not sure I want to tackle, but maybe I will) and would want to get maybe a few Chapters from Book 0 to check out. I just need to know if the Logic is taught simultaneously. You actually can do Book 1 while doing Book 0. I'm working through both right now (ch 1 of book 0 and book 1). I haven't figured out exactly where I'll put in Logic, but there is a schedule here. When I used the books (in seventh grade), we did some of Book 0 (don't remember exactly how far we got), then did Book 1, back to book 0. Eighth grade finished up Book 0, did Book 2 (more paragraph proofs). I don't think I'd do two books simultaneously, but I'd certainly do about 1/2 of Book 0 and Book 1 in the same year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawna in Texas Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 You actually can do Book 1 while doing Book 0. I'm working through both right now (ch 1 of book 0 and book 1). I haven't figured out exactly where I'll put in Logic, but there is a schedule here. When I used the books (in seventh grade), we did some of Book 0 (don't remember exactly how far we got), then did Book 1, back to book 0. Eighth grade finished up Book 0, did Book 2 (more paragraph proofs). I don't think I'd do two books simultaneously, but I'd certainly do about 1/2 of Book 0 and Book 1 in the same year. I hate when I do this a month before the start of a new year. Maybe I could hold off until 7th. I don't know. I may be too intrigued. Thanks for the link. It was really helpful. I had no idea how to schedule them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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