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Are early readers necessarily "gifted" or even "accelerated"?


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#1 Marie in Oh

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 10:48 AM

I wonder if we have early readers who accelerate quickly beacuse we give them one on one attention early. Are they bright kids who in a school setting would be in the top reading groups, but not necessarily "gifted." Is there something else that makes a gifted kid that early reading doesn't?

I am coming at this from a bit of a different perspective because I have just fisnished teaching my 4th child to read. She read early and well and reads at the upper 3rd to 4th grade level at age 5.75. She ceilinged out the ITBS this year with a 99th %, but does that mean she is gifted or just has the tools early and is bright? At what point do high test scores say "this child is different?"

I am considering this because I think I have one truly gifted child. All my kids have read well, early, but then they sort of leveled out. I mean, they still test well and are very bright, but there is something different that makes me suspect that my rising 3rd grader is truly gifted. She is different from my older two who read early and well. I don't know how to put a finger on it, but those of you who have one know what I am talking about.

I am not sure what I am asking, but maybe just musing a bit or thinking out loud. Feel free to comment or ignore. Perhaps I am overthinking. I tend to do that. Thanks for listening.

#2 asta

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 11:28 AM

I read somewhere, once upon a time (Hoagies gifted site, maybe?) that most children, given the opportunity and attention, will excel, and excel rapidly... to a point. I think he said 7 or 8 tended to be the "and here we are" moment for separating "average", "smart" and what society has deemed "gifted" or "exceptional".

It was something about how that age was the great equalizer, and that only a small percentage of kids kept going at such a fast pace, and that is what separated them out.

I should look that article up...

I know what you mean about there being something you can't quite put your finger on: my mom says she can tell a baby's intelligence just by looking at them. She hasn't been wrong yet, so who knows.

I was going through some old home video and found one of DS going through an Easter basket and reading all of the different packages... at 2 1/2. I didn't even remember it happening! I just always showed him letters and words and spoke to him not in baby-talk. He subsequently had the WISC-III and was way the heck up there (higher than me by a long shot!).

In other words, I don't know the answer, really. :lol:

a

#3 JenneinAZ

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 11:38 AM

Early readers are.... early readers.

I have seen early readers that are profoundly gifted. And I have seen profoundly gifted children that didn't read until they were eight. I have seen early readers that were above average, but it evened out at seven. Early reading by itself doesn't tell you much.

But the questions the child asks and the things they think of do tell a lot about the child. If you think your child is different, she probably is. Enjoy her. You are in for an interesting and exciting trip.

#4 nmoira

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 11:42 AM

I think the answer might be that children who able to be taught to read early are probably bright and may be gifted, but children who seemingly teach themselves are almost certainly gifted. However, if a child is not an early reader, it does not necessarily follow that the child is not gifted.

Edited by nmoira, 29 June 2009 - 12:00 PM.


#5 ScoutermominIL

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 11:55 AM

Both of my children were early readers and both have been identified as GT students by the school system. There is a big difference between them, though. My DD leveled out in junior high. Even though she excelled academically and did well on the state tests, the extra 'something' wasn't there. Her extracurricular reading slowed down. She began to have to study to get those high A's. She wasn't motivated to pursue intellectual interests outside of those necessary to succeed in school. Believe me, she had opportunity. My DH and I encouraged her to continue intellectual pursuits through 4H, school clubs, etc. She just wasn't interested. Currently, she is in the advanced classes in high school but is more 'in the pack' than leading it.

My son, who entered junior high this year, is accelerating his pace. We are going deeper in and higher up in many subjects. His appetite for knowledge is on the rise. He wants to participate in indepth, philosophical discussions and craves stimulation. We can tell when his brain is starved and try to feed it accordingly (with good literature, science shows, stimulating activities, etc). The school system frustrates him and he frustrates them. He seeks out ways to learn and participates in activities that interest him. Will it continue? I don't know. I hope so. Will he level out in junior high as well? Only time will tell.

#6 katilac

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 12:26 PM

Definitely not. You can be pretty sure that an early reader is going to be bright, I'd say, but not gifted or accelerated. At my dd's pre-school, there were always a fair number of 3-yr-olds and 4-yr-olds who were reading, far too many for it to be a sure sign of giftedness.

And I don't think that answer changes much for self-taught readers. Very, very few children can be considered entirely self-taught readers, imo, what with the abundance of ABC books, learning toys and educational shows that most kids are surrounded by.

#7 Kuovonne

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 12:27 PM

I think that early readers are, by definition, accelerated. Of course, they might not stay accelerated. You can be accelerated without being gifted.

#8 Donna

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 02:49 PM

gifted isn't what a child is able to do at a certain age. Gifted is in how they approach the world, learn from it, and form connections. So a child who reads early is accelerated and probably bright but not necessarily gifted just as a child who talks and/or reads late is not not gifted. (Wow that was an awkward sentence).

All 3 of my kids are bright and were early with everything. They are still way ahead of the average kid their age and would be in the GT program in school since they all qualify for CTY.

My youngest though, looks at things differently than the other two. I taught the older two what they know whereas she just absorbs everything, makes her own connections, and seemingly just knows.

She didn't learn to read completely on her own because I read to her, showed her Leap Frog Factory videos, pointed out letters, and played games with her but without a formal "reading program" she did just begin to fluently read anything and everything including knowing phonics rules she had not been specifically taught.

#9 Moni

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 03:04 PM

My kids read early because I teach them.

:seeya:

#10 Willow

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 03:32 PM

it.

My son, who entered junior high this year, is accelerating his pace. We are going deeper in and higher up in many subjects. His appetite for knowledge is on the rise.



My early reader (who didn't talk until she was 3....when it became apparent she could also read!) did not excel later. yes, very bright, not gifted, I think, although she went through the school system and was tested as gifted.

Middle dd gifted, no question. Different in her way of thinking, at 12 was learning Medieval ballads by heart for fun. Published (not vanity or self published) by 14.

Youngest (and my only boy) diagnosed as LD in school is still at almost 13 very small and puberty is not even a blip on the horizon, socially he would make a good 11 and a half year old, is speeding up academically by the day. Is he LD or gifted? Almost exactly year ago, we went back to the beginning in maths (MUS Alpha) we are now almost finished with Zeta, and his favorite thing is solving for the unknown. He did all 6 levels in less than a year and cannot wait for Pre-Algebra to get here. (Note we are in NZ so it is not our summer break, its winter and its cold!)
In writing he went from not being able to write (both physically, poor handwriting and mentally) To the best of my knowledge he had never written a sentence independently in his life. He decided to write a story in a national competition (typed it) and came second. Is now, only months after actually starting writing, writing High School level essays, only the research component is shaky.

So after all this. I had 1 dc who read well and early and slowed down. I had one who was gifted all through and one who was LD and didn't read until almost 10 and who now reads me out of house and home and for whom I have to keep revising curricula because he races through it and begs for more!

I conclude...they do their own thing in their own way and us poor parents just have to hang on and enjoy the ride!

Willow.

#11 Laura Corin

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 05:34 PM

Hobbes had no interest in letters until he was four, then asked to be taught and was reading Harry Potter at five. Calvin, on the other hand, had all his letter sounds by the time he was eighteen months old. He also didn't read Harry Potter until he was five, but we felt that the very early recognition of symbols pointed to something.

Fast forward to now. Calvin is extremely advanced in reading, vocabulary and anything that involves memory. His reasoning ability is not extraordinary however. Hobbes - he's my dark horse. His memory isn't nearly so good but he has a way of making connections and analysing situations which is actually, to me, a much clearer sign of giftedness.

So.... I think both fall in the gifted range, and Calvin (who tested profoundly gifted at five) still comes across as the more cerebral - it's as much his 'little-professor' personality as anything else - but I think that Hobbes (my later reader) may well be the one to do something very interesting with his analytical and connection-building gifts.

I'm not sure if that answers your question..

Laura

#12 lisabees

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:47 AM

Hmmm...I haven't had any early readers. Three out of four read by 6, I guess. Two of those have tested gifted. I have a feeling my six year old is too.

The other is dyslexic with an average IQ.

So, I don't think reading has much to do with it. The reason I think my youngest is gifted is because she thinks differently. Just like the others. She thinks outside the box. She sees patterns in everything, makes amazing connections between two unrelated things, and perceives an event differently than someone else her own age would.

On the other hand, my dyslexic kid has AMAZING gifts because of his struggles - he is gifted in his visual memory and his perceptive skills. Frighteningly so, actually!!

#13 Laura Corin

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 02:42 AM

My kids read early because I teach them.

:seeya:


I used to believe that any child could learn to read early, but helping out in class when Calvin was in pre-school made me change my mind. There were some children for whom reading just didn't click - there was some connection that wasn't being made. They just needed a bit more time.

Laura

#14 Jumping In Puddles

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 05:24 AM

I gave my children both one on one attention early and we read, read, read all the time. My son is 6 and still can't read. BUT, many people that know him and people he meets ask me if he is gifted and people always seem comment on how smart he is.

My daughter (just turned 5) is reading much better than my son did at that age (but people never comment on how smart she is, but they do always say how cute she is :glare: )

So, I really doubt that just the one on one attention is getting kids to read early and I honestly expected my ds to read when he was 3 because he was sooooooo verbal and had a huge vocab. and he would let me read to him for hours. But no, he doesn't really get it.

I, on the other hand, taught myself to read when I was about 4. I was accelerated up to about 2nd grade, then I kind of fell behind. I am not now and never was gifted. I do love to read. :)

#15 angela in ohio

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 02:25 PM

gifted isn't what a child is able to do at a certain age. Gifted is in how they approach the world, learn from it, and form connections. So a child who reads early is accelerated and probably bright but not necessarily gifted just as a child who talks and/or reads late is not not gifted. (Wow that was an awkward sentence).


:iagree:

I always tell people you can tell it probably is just accelerated and not gifted if the child can still pass for normal. :D (Only half kidding here.) With higher levels of gifted, you start to get negatives, not just the positive of being accelerated.

I have known many kids who started out reading very early and seemed accelerated, and now that they are older, it is obvious that they are not gifted. These are the children who create the stereotype that "all kids level out."

#16 zaichiki

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 08:15 PM

I used to believe that any child could learn to read early, but helping out in class when Calvin was in pre-school made me change my mind. There were some children for whom reading just didn't click - there was some connection that wasn't being made. They just needed a bit more time.

Laura


A child needs to be able to blend & figure out that the sounds /k//a//t/ mean the same thing as the word "cat." Sometimes, no matter how many games you play with refrigerator magnets, alphabet books, letter sounds, or no matter how many "learn to read" educational videos they watch, you just have to wait until it clicks. For some kids, the blending thing just clicks extremely early with no purposeful attention paid by the parents. For others, it takes lots of repetition. I wonder what causes that difference.

#17 purplecow7

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 09:26 PM

Early reading can be a sign of giftness, but it could also be that they are accelerated. A gifted child is not necessary about the output it is more about how they think about and the questions they ask. It is not that they know more it is that they think differently.

My oldest did everything early - he went to a daycare with children that were very similiar to him. A lot of the children where reading in kindergarten and doing first grade math. So for us this was a normal - like his ability to read by age 4. But then I started to notice his questions - well I noticed because they drove me crazy. He wanted more and more data and he made amazing connections between the informations.

I don't want my children defined by a number, we have had two of them tested and both tested PG. We did this so we could get GT services in the public school. My children are still the same children they have always been. They still drive me crazy with questions. However now they say Mom can we google it because you are not going to know the whole answer lol.

I would go to hoagies gifted website - they have a great list of charateristis. Now just remember just because I child is gifted does not mean they are gifted in everything.

#18 Laura Corin

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 02:32 AM

For some kids, the blending thing just clicks extremely early with no purposeful attention paid by the parents. For others, it takes lots of repetition. I wonder what causes that difference.


Calvin was tested for LDs when he was four (he is dyspraxic) so I have an interesting analysis of his abilities at that point. His figure-ground discrimination was four years ahead. I see this (his ability to pick a particular shape out of a background) as key to his early ability to recognise letters. I'm not sure if this is a component in blending, however, as that seems to be much more of an aural skill.

The (OOP) phonics programme that I used with Hobbes worked orally on sounds and blending before turning to reading blends. I think that this is a very sensible track.

Laura

#19 zaichiki

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 06:26 PM

I'm not sure if this is a component in blending, however, as that seems to be much more of an aural skill.


Blending is definitely an aural skill. Just wondering why some kids can do it earlier than others... and it is not necessarily intelligence-connected (meaning kids with higher IQ's don't necessarily acquire this skill more quickly than kids with more typical IQ's).

#20 Jewel

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 10:02 AM

I have not had my dd6 tested but she is accelerated. She read early however she is a detail person, she sees the small in everything (eye spy kind of stuff, likes a microscope). I don't know if "attention to detail" has something to do with early reading or not but my oldest 7dd has a difficult time seeing the details and she is a late reader....just my theory. There is a wide range with regards to learning to read and many kids make tremendous progress (moving grade levels) in short periods of time. My dd6 taught herself (she just showed me one day) to write her own name when she was 2yrs, began reading at three (listening to older child's lessons and wanting to be apart of things) but did not "take off" reading until she was 5yrs. She still suprises me with words she can already read. Large chapter books still make her uncomfortable (the size) however it is the content of the story she is wanting so her curiosity is bound to get the better of her. My 7dd is slowly learning to read but I am so proud of her (she was a preemie, our miracle baby).

#21 Orthodox6

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 10:20 AM

I don't usually visit this board. Hope it's ok for an outsider to post.

My eye was caught by the thread's title.

No an early reader is NOT necessarily "gifted" or even "accelerated."

One of my children has Asperger's. When he was two years old, he jumped up and down in his seat of the shopping cart while we were at a Sam's Club. Excitedly, he exclaimed, while gesturing toward a hanging aisle sign, "Look, Mommy, look ! Letter "2" !"

He learned to read while in his late "3s", but turned out to have Asperger's -- for which unusually early reading often is a characteristic. He is neither gifted nor accelerated. (now is 15 years old) Just verbally advanced.

#22 jewell

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 03:23 PM

I was wondering what changes or thoughts the original poster had now?
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#23 2cents

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 03:25 PM

Early readers are.... early readers.

I have seen early readers that are profoundly gifted. And I have seen profoundly gifted children that didn't read until they were eight. I have seen early readers that were above average, but it evened out at seven. Early reading by itself doesn't tell you much.

But the questions the child asks and the things they think of do tell a lot about the child. If you think your child is different, she probably is. Enjoy her. You are in for an interesting and exciting trip.


:iagree:

#24 WoolySocks

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 05:32 PM

I have seen early readers that are profoundly gifted. And I have seen profoundly gifted children that didn't read until they were eight. I have seen early readers that were above average, but it evened out at seven. Early reading by itself doesn't tell you much.

But the questions the child asks and the things they think of do tell a lot about the child. If you think your child is different, she probably is. Enjoy her. You are in for an interesting and exciting trip.



:iagree: I totally agree with this. Neither of my kids were particularly interested in early reading. My kids attended play based preschool and we didn't do any academics. Honestly, I was VERY lazy compared to most people on this board. But both kids jumped 5-6 levels in reading very quickly after being introduced to it. I haven't had my youngest tested, but my oldest is highly to profoundly gifted. He had an intensity at a very early age that I thought was normal at the time, but was definitely not. He was obsessed with plumbing and duct work and had to know how it was all put together. He taught himself to use the computer at 2. He conceptually understood multiplication, division, and fractions before attending school. My 2nd had similar intensity in her own areas, but I'm not making any judgments on her for a couple more years and a few test scores. My 2nd right now is showing me she couple probably skip a couple years of math curriculum and be fine (which I won't do - we'll compact and breeze through for a while.

#25 mktkcb

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 06:58 PM

I don't know.....I had one average, one a bit early, and one even a bit earlier. Mine certainly aren't over the top brilliant or incredibly accelerated, but 1 or 2 of them are probably gifted. ds who read the earliest has amazing auditory ability. I'm convinced that is why he was an early reader. He could easily discriminate sounds. Interestingly, he isn't my most voracious reader. He's very musical, and likes more technical reading, but hates historical fiction. He does like some fantasy. He isn't a fast reader either, I think, because it still goes from his eyes to his ears to his brain. I think he still has to hear it in his head to some degree, although he (at age 14) can read silently. He subvocalized for ev er ...... until age 10 at least. But he looooved to read out loud when he was little, and read fluently with perfect inflection/different voices etc from the time he learned to read. He loved to read stories to the other 3/4 yo's in his sunday school class :o). He's probably my genuinely gifted one, although his sensory issues create certain challenges.

#26 Mommyfaithe

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 07:02 PM

Early readers are.... early readers.

I have seen early readers that are profoundly gifted. And I have seen profoundly gifted children that didn't read until they were eight. I have seen early readers that were above average, but it evened out at seven. Early reading by itself doesn't tell you much.

But the questions the child asks and the things they think of do tell a lot about the child. If you think your child is different, she probably is. Enjoy her. You are in for an interesting and exciting trip.


:iagree: with this. Age that my kids were reading did not equate their giftedness. My kids are all very smart, but not what I would call "gifted."

Faithe

#27 Gratia271

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 08:34 PM

Early reading and comprehension are not indicia of giftedness anymore than late reading necessarily suggests learning delays. There are children who jump through all of the academic hoops from an early age yet are not gifted. There are highly gifted children who "appear" dull because they don't jump through said hoops. Giftedness bears little relation to how early you place a check mark next to a skill.

#28 Mabelen

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 08:49 PM

I'd say not necessarily but it may well be an indication of giftedness especially for those kids that we not exposed to educational materials yet figured out the reading thing by themselves by reading aloud alone.
Bear in mind that giftedness does not equal high achievement either, though. These things are never cut and clear, are they?

My oldest was one of those kids that learned to read by herself in English first then Spanish not having been exposed to any instructional reading materials, video or otherwise. All I did was read to her in English and Spanish and she was reading fluently in English well before she was 4 and by 4 also in Spanish. She has been diagnosed as gifted but she is not one of those kids that will blow you away now. Part of it is due to personality traits, she is very reserved and too cautious for her own good; part is age related, a lot of teenage anguish and self doubt going on at the moment; part is other complications when she was younger that meant I probably gave her more of a break than I should have and as such didn't challenge her as I should have with the result that she did not develop good work habits to push herself (working on this now!).

My youngest was not an early reader but when she started formal instruction leapt far ahead very quickly. I don't know if she is gifted but she may be, she is pulling me constantly but is very different from her sister.

#29 zaichiki

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 09:23 PM

Early reading and comprehension are not indicia of giftedness anymore than late reading necessarily suggests learning delays. There are children who jump through all of the academic hoops from an early age yet are not gifted. There are highly gifted children who "appear" dull because they don't jump through said hoops. Giftedness bears little relation to how early you place a check mark next to a skill.


I don't know...

I know there are early readers who turn out not to be gifted and there are gifted kids who were not early readers, but --

I remember reading that *most* gifted children read early.


ETA:
So far I have 3 reading children. Numbers 1 and 3 have outstanding visual memories and have taught themselves to read by following along as I read aloud to them and just *pouring* over books. Numbers 1 and 2 were tested several years ago and have IQ numbers that fall in the gifted category.

The first figured out phonics on his own at around 4 and leaped into chapter books. (I discovered that as I was using Hooked on Phonics with him and he already knew the skill *in every lesson.*)
Second was found to have dyslexia. She was slower to learn to read, but reads above grade level.
The third could blend short vowel words at 3, but didn't really read books until I started using Hooked on Phonics and Bob books with him at 4.5. In a couple of months he went from those short vowel words to reading at a 2nd to 3rd grade level. (The Hooked on Phonics lessons we're doing are still at the short vowel level.)

Edited by zaichiki, 29 January 2011 - 09:33 PM.


#30 WoolySocks

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 10:18 PM

I don't know...

I know there are early readers who turn out not to be gifted and there are gifted kids who were not early readers, but --

I remember reading that *most* gifted children read early.


I've seen that too. But honestly what I really think this means is that kids that were IDed as gifted were more likely to have read early. Which follows reason to me. Kids that read early probably have parents that encouraged early literacy and that may have known they were gifted. I absolutely think young kids that pick it up on their own at a very early age are likely very gifted. But working through a phonics curriculum piecemeal with an agreeable preschooler is a different thing. Not that a child who uses a phonics curriculum can't be extremely gifted either. I just don't think it's a given.

My husband and I were never IDed as gifted. Neither of us read early because we were raised in homes where our parents weren't IDed as gifted and they weren't into early literacy like they are now. My son was IDed in kindergarten when he hit the ceiling of an IQ test at school. I literally knew nothing about GT before that time. Clearly, my husband and I ARE gifted. We both received high scores on SAT testing and graduated college with multiple technical degrees. We both felt like square pegs in round holes through our schooling experience until we went to college. A light literally went on in my head when I started reading about the experiences of GT children.

Anyway - looking back, I'm sure my 1 grandmother (who just died at 89 still a suduko/crossword champ/only made it to 10th grade), 1 grandfather (math teacher) mother, and father are all GT. I suspect my father is 2E. None of them read early either.

Early reading is the result of ability, exposure, interest, ability to track text, and likely a dozen other things falling into place. I think it's unsafe to rule kids out as gifted by the age they start reading.

#31 Embassy

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 10:22 PM

No, I don't think early readers are necessarily gifted or accelerated. I would say they are more likely to be gifted or accelerated, but there are so many other factors besides reading.

To me gifted is not about academic achievements, but the way a person relates to the world. The gifted individuals I know feel things deeper and have a general sense of being intensely alive. That exuberance can show up academically through pursuit of passions and general intelligence, but it can also be absent academically if a child does not care about learning what the teacher/parent/school wants them to learn.

#32 mammaofbean

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 06:09 AM

reading is a skill, like talking. some kids need more or less training to read. i would ask, what are they doing with the skills they have?

if knowing left from right, swimming, or shoe tying were thought of as highly as reading my six year old would probably qualify for remedial services.

#33 Gratia271

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 10:42 AM

[quote name='zaichiki']I don't know...

I know there are early readers who turn out not to be gifted and there are gifted kids who were not early readers, but --

I remember reading that *most* gifted children read early.
/QUOTE]

My three children fit this statement. I know other gifted children who don't. DH was not precocious whatsoever in his "academic skill development" but is profoundly gifted. The same is true with my brother, whom my parents discovered was highly gifted after he was sent by the school to be tested to determine whether he was a "slow" learner b/c his classroom performance was so poor.

That is among the reasons I made the statement about checklist skills and giftedness. It is actually much more complex than that. My brother and DH were not "bookish" kids. Kids like this, notwithstanding giftedness, may not read early. They have no interest in books. Kids like my husband built scale models, drew perfect replicas, took apart and rebuilt engines etc etc very early. Particularly in respect of boys, I think you will get intimations of giftedness in areas of their interest and possibly nothing else. They may otherwise be stealth gifted children.

#34 simka2

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 10:19 PM

I will just speak from my experience. As a child I was not an early reader, in fact I was a remidial reader until 4th grade. From 4th to 5th grade I went from a 2nd grade reading level to a college reading level.

My mother, grandfather, and the school had my IQ tested. All I know is I tested as "gifted", my mother has some interesting concepts on what to do with this information and refused to let me know my actual score. She wanted me to be as normal as possible and kept me in public school (without accalerated courses) This really backfired and highschool was a nightmare!

My dd9 has advanced thru 3 years a math in the last 9 months. Ds is finding his stride as well. All of mine have been late bloomers.

#35 OrganicAnn

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 10:51 PM

I know several people who are Gifted (by childhood testing) that were not early readers.

I know one person who is gifted (testing) that was an early reader.

My experience is that most gifted people were not early readers.

But that is only a very small sample.

#36 Storm Bay

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 11:00 AM

Early readers are.... early readers.

I have seen early readers that are profoundly gifted. And I have seen profoundly gifted children that didn't read until they were eight. I have seen early readers that were above average, but it evened out at seven. Early reading by itself doesn't tell you much.
.


Right! However, technically early readers are accellerated at least for a while if you compare them with their age peers.

I think the answer might be that children who able to be taught to read early are probably bright and may be gifted, but children who seemingly teach themselves are almost certainly gifted. However, if a child is not an early reader, it does not necessarily follow that the child is not gifted.

:iagree:
[

I used to believe that any child could learn to read early, but helping out in class when Calvin was in pre-school made me change my mind. There were some children for whom reading just didn't click - there was some connection that wasn't being made. They just needed a bit more time.

Laura


I've seen this, too.

gifted isn't what a child is able to do at a certain age. Gifted is in how they approach the world, learn from it, and form connections. .

Yes!

He learned to read while in his late "3s", but turned out to have Asperger's -- for which unusually early reading often is a characteristic. He is neither gifted nor accelerated. (now is 15 years old) Just verbally advanced.


You can also be gifted and have Asperger's, too. The early reading you are mentioning is one where the dc can decode words at an advanced level, but don't comprehend what they are reading, aka rote reading. My cousin is a highly gifted man who is a brilliant lawyer who has Asperger's (as does his younger son.) His junior partners shield him from some parts of the job (eg hiring and firing, etc). His aspie son, however, is not gifted and doesn't excell in academics. He is studying furniture making but also likes cooking.

Lately I have read a number of posts about dc with Asperger's and how they won't be able to go to college, etc. Some can't cope, of course, but many Aspie's can--one aspect of Aspies is that they are usually from normal to very bright (and even gifted) in intelligence, so my cousin is not that unique. There are professors and actors who are aspies as well (plus a number of other fields, such as science, math and many other things where an deep or obsessive interest in one or more interests comes in handy.)

. Giftedness bears little relation to how early you place a check mark next to a skill.


Yes!!! One place to start it to look at the characteristics of gifted dc. At one time I was sure my ds was anything but gifted (he was behind in everything at 13 months, caught up in all but speech by 2, etc), but when I was reading a list of gifted characteristics re: my dd's (I already knew my eldest was for sure), I was shocked to see that ds had the most. He is very much a deep thinker, started asking very deep questions at an early age (4, but some gifted dc ask them sooner, etc.) As far as academics are concerned, he is now accellerated in only a few areas because he is a higly reluctant scholar.

I've seen that too. But honestly what I really think this means is that kids that were IDed as gifted were more likely to have read early.

:iagree:

I come from a family with many gifted people (from gifted through pg and plenty of us have been tested--at one time IQ tests were given quite regularly, or at least where we went to school) and most of us did not read early even though both sides of the family are highly literate and read to their dc from an early age.

As others have mentioned, giftedness is the way your brain and sensory system operate and learn. There isn't just one way that gifted people think, of course, but there is the capacity to go much faster and/or deeper. Some dc go deeper but not faster, too.

Edited by Karin, 07 February 2011 - 11:16 AM.


#37 lisamarie

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 09:26 PM

I wouldn't consider my DS an early reader, but for sure he is gifted. I specifically did not teach him to read at home because I didn't want him to be completely bored in school. But once I decided that was stupid and actively started teaching him to read at just turned 6, he went from a non-reader to 2nd grade level in 4 months. He is now easily at a 4th or 5th grade level at age 7.

My DD5 it's hard to say compared to my DS. But my hunch is that she is smart, not gifted. She's also not motivated like my DS. She is in PS K this year and starting in October, her teacher has been giving her strictly 1st grade work. I personally think that while she LOOKS smart in school, it's just from teaching her at home and not true giftedness.

My DD3, on the other hand, I think is going to blow her big bro and sis away. She taught herself the letters, the letter sounds, is starting to blend them into words, can spell out words with her letter tiles, can point out words on billboards, trucks, and in the newspaper, can read numbers over 100, can tell time on a digital clock, etc. Big sis taught her how to skip count this week and she can now count by 10s to 100 and is almost there with her 5s. Maybe she will level out, but for now it sure is exciting to see what she will learn next.

#38 Storm Bay

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 11:18 AM

My DD5 it's hard to say compared to my DS. But my hunch is that she is smart, not gifted.
My DD3, on the other hand, I think is going to blow her big bro and sis away. .


fwiw, it's far more likely that your dc are closer in intelligence than you can tell by what they are showing. Typically the birth siblings of a gifted dc score within a fairly close range on IQ tests even if their achievements and milestones are quite different. My eldest was the one who knew the most at a very young age and the sheer number of them combined with what they were demonstrated that she was gifted (plus other traits, and giftedness runs in the family). However, all of my dc have turned out to be gifted, even my ds who was behind in everything at 13 months. In regard to your 5 yo, her lack of motivation is a big key. Again, it's something you are born with that is potential, not necessarily something you demonstrate.

#39 TracyP

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 12:49 PM

fwiw, it's far more likely that your dc are closer in intelligence than you can tell by what they are showing. Typically the birth siblings of a gifted dc score within a fairly close range on IQ tests even if their achievements and milestones are quite different. My eldest was the one who knew the most at a very young age and the sheer number of them combined with what they were demonstrated that she was gifted (plus other traits, and giftedness runs in the family). However, all of my dc have turned out to be gifted, even my ds who was behind in everything at 13 months. In regard to your 5 yo, her lack of motivation is a big key. Again, it's something you are born with that is potential, not necessarily something you demonstrate.


Can you elaborate on what I bolded? Do you have sources or is this just an observation you have made? I am curious because I'm sure ds(5) is gifted, dd(7) is "just bright" but sometimes I suspect she is not reaching her potential because she shuts down when things get hard, and sometimes I wonder if ds(3) has ld's because of developmental delays he has had. It is interesting to think they could have similar IQ's just different personalities.

I decided to start a new thread here.

Edited by TracyP, 10 February 2011 - 12:57 PM.
start a new thread


#40 lisamarie

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 03:44 PM

fwiw, it's far more likely that your dc are closer in intelligence than you can tell by what they are showing. Typically the birth siblings of a gifted dc score within a fairly close range on IQ tests even if their achievements and milestones are quite different.


This is true for my siblings and me. My sister is the motivated one who wants to be top dog--she is gifted in languages and writing. I want to teach myself and do things myself without being told what to do--I got the music and mechanical/engineering strengths. My brother is the stereotypical gifted underachiever--he got the computer and math strengths. My parents had a real time with him when he was in school to get him to do his homework and TURN IT IN. But we are all gifted and scored very similarly on standardized tests despite the fact that we're all over the board on our strengths. We come from a long line of giftedness from all over the spectrum.

#41 RayDad

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 08:47 PM

Both of my children were early readers and both have been identified as GT students by the school system. There is a big difference between them, though. My DD leveled out in junior high. Even though she excelled academically and did well on the state tests, the extra 'something' wasn't there. Her extracurricular reading slowed down. She began to have to study to get those high A's. She wasn't motivated to pursue intellectual interests outside of those necessary to succeed in school. Believe me, she had opportunity. My DH and I encouraged her to continue intellectual pursuits through 4H, school clubs, etc. She just wasn't interested. Currently, she is in the advanced classes in high school but is more 'in the pack' than leading it.

My son, who entered junior high this year, is accelerating his pace. We are going deeper in and higher up in many subjects. His appetite for knowledge is on the rise. He wants to participate in indepth, philosophical discussions and craves stimulation. We can tell when his brain is starved and try to feed it accordingly (with good literature, science shows, stimulating activities, etc). The school system frustrates him and he frustrates them. He seeks out ways to learn and participates in activities that interest him. Will it continue? I don't know. I hope so. Will he level out in junior high as well? Only time will tell.


If your son stops it will because they killed his will. At this moment he is fighting for what he wants. He should not have to fight for it it should be given to him. Do all you can to support him and fight for him. Don't let them put out his fire.
Ray

#42 Storm Bay

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 01:05 PM

Can you elaborate on what I bolded? Do you have sources or is this just an observation you have made? I am curious because I'm sure ds(5) is gifted, dd(7) is "just bright" but sometimes I suspect she is not reaching her potential because she shuts down when things get hard, and sometimes I wonder if ds(3) has ld's because of developmental delays he has had. It is interesting to think they could have similar IQ's just different personalities.

I decided to start a new thread here.



Sadly, with my new computer, I no longer have the links to those sources, but someone else here may have them or they could have been posted on the old boards. The only way to be sure is to have your dc's tested, and many parents have been very surprised to see that happen. Here's a link that doesn't back this up but that you may find interesting, particularly the first part and the myths http://www.ri.net/gi.../character.html
It's a link someone posted today.

I think you have had your question answered on the other thread.

#43 Holiztic

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 10:01 PM

I don't know if my DS is gifted, but I will say that the things that make us suspect it have to do with many different areas of development, not just reading. DS is 4 in April and as we are Waldorfy/delayed academics people DS has been, well, kind of sheltered from reading resources (alphabet toys, song, magnets, etc, easy reader books, TV, computer, leapfrog, etc.) but still is starting to spell and sound out words. He started talking at 10 months and by 18 months was speaking in 3-5 word sentences, with sentences over 10 words with past tense, adverbs, etc. before 2. His memory was astounding well before 2, he started doing mental math (2+2, 3+1, 3-2, etc) shortly after 2. I even count non-academic things like potty-training in 2 days before he was 2, being night dry without incident from 2.5, sitting at the table and eating every bite of every food (for up to 1 hour) since, well, he started eating, etc.

I know not all of these things are present in gifted kids, I just believe for my kid, these are signs of his abilities. If I had a kid that seemed average in most ways but read at 4 or 5, I wouldn't necessarily think gifted, but I wouldn't say not either.

#44 Storm Bay

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 11:00 AM

I don't know if my DS is gifted, but I will say that the things that make us suspect it have to do with many different areas of development, not just reading. DS is 4 in April and as we are Waldorfy/delayed academics people DS has been, well, kind of sheltered from reading resources (alphabet toys, song, magnets, etc, easy reader books, TV, computer, leapfrog, etc.) but still is starting to spell and sound out words. He started talking at 10 months and by 18 months was speaking in 3-5 word sentences, with sentences over 10 words with past tense, adverbs, etc. before 2. His memory was astounding well before 2, he started doing mental math (2+2, 3+1, 3-2, etc) shortly after 2. I even count non-academic things like potty-training in 2 days before he was 2, being night dry without incident from 2.5, sitting at the table and eating every bite of every food (for up to 1 hour) since, well, he started eating, etc.

I know not all of these things are present in gifted kids, I just believe for my kid, these are signs of his abilities. If I had a kid that seemed average in most ways but read at 4 or 5, I wouldn't necessarily think gifted, but I wouldn't say not either.


The staying dry at night is strictly physical development, although I can't say anything about the potty training. The only two people I know who potty trained themselves at 18 months are both gifted & second children (my sister and her ds), but I have no idea if there is any correlation between the two, since their younger gifted siblings didn't do the same thing and I know gifted dc who refused to potty train:001_smile:.

I'm not sure about the link with the talking, and that could well be a sign, as are the other things you mentioned.

#45 Marie in Oh

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Posted 28 February 2011 - 07:44 AM

I was wondering what changes or thoughts the original poster had now?
Monique



I am the original poster and said child is now 7.5. I would say, after extensive reading on the subject, talking with teacher friends in public school, and another year of testing, that she would at least be idetified as gifted if she were in school. i agree with the statement that it is how a child approaches the world, makes connections, etc, that establish giftedness. This child also shows classic asynchronous (sp?) develpopmet from cognitive to emotioanly development. She is years ahead cognitively, yet years behind emotionally. She has a sister 14 months behind her who is light years ahead in independence. Since my op, she has started piano lessons, and is definitlely showing signs of musical affinity- after going through 3 levels of Faber piano her first year she was passed to the "highly trained professional piano teacher" and taken out of methods completely. Sooooooo, I would say, yes, she is indeed probably gifted.

I have 1 other dd who would probably be in the gifted program in school, though she is not so underdeveloped emotionally. She too has an afinity fothe piano.

If it is any consolation, my youngest dd, just turned 4, and is reading CVC words. The jury is still out on her. I have come to the conclusion that this is one of the many reasons that we homeschool, that is, to give our children exactly what they need. It has been an interesting road thus far.

#46 Storm Bay

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Posted 28 February 2011 - 11:17 AM


I am the original poster and said child is now 7.5.


Wow, when this post came up I didn't pay any attention to when you first posted! I missed this one the first time around.


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