Nan in Mass Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Having tried the calculator and then resorted to the tables, I now understand why GRIN. -Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Having tried the calculator and then resorted to the tables, I now understand why GRIN.-Nan As a sailor of an older school, Nan, I am envisioning you enjoying degrees, minutes and seconds in your calculations. Generations of old passed between base 10 and base 60 without incident. Modern students would flip if they couldn't use their calculators for decimals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen in VA Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 My older kids used the tables for the first few chapters of trig. Then I had mercy. I decided to be kinder to my younger son and only have him do one assignment using tables. Much to my surprise, he had trouble actually figuring out how to READ the tables -- so he did the first chapter of trig (at the back of algebra 1) with tables. Weird? Yes! But I guess I like knowing that my kids can do trig via tables. It's similar to my liking the fact that my kids can do math even if all the calculators were to suddenly vaporize! And Nan, I love the idea that there is someone out there who can navigate with older methods and without GPS! I guess we all have our peculiarities -- some just have stranger peculiarities than others! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 My son, the king of not showing his work, looked at the minutes and said, "Why on earth are we using base 10? It is so inaccurate." LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 GPS's are very comforting in the fog and I adore the anchor watch feature when the night is windy and bouncy and we're unsure of the holding ground, but I think it is insane to replace a chart that is several feet across with one that is about 8 inches if you are rich, about 2 inches if you aren't, and difficult to see if you it is bumpy or bright. Besides, what if your wires corrode? Or your battery fails? Something always is happening. If it isn't the weather, it is the technology. That's why my family's traditional farewell is "Have an uneventful trip." I am definately old school when it comes to navigation GRIN. We were glad to see the charts and protractors in the background of some of the photos the captain posted on the website for my oldest's training cruise. -Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 When I was in school I used the log tables; calculators came out back then but were large, expensive and not allowed in the classroom and certainly not for tests. I no longer remember how to do it, but my dc are going to learn to do it before they learn how to do it with calculators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jann in TX Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Other people did the 'figuring' for the tables... the students get to use their work as short cuts! A calculator just replaces the 'other people' (as far as finding Trig values and such)--and students get to use it as a short cut! When using the table/calculator values to work a problem the students still need to do the calculations by hand--or by inputting the steps into a calculator... A calculator can do the computations faster--as long as they are inputted correctly...but it does not make finding the Trig values any easier--once a student understands the tables. My daughter's Geometry teacher told her that using Trig Tables was CHEATING!!! Calculators were permitted--(TI-83s) but not tables---I thought it was funny...and sad... I printed off tables to speed up my dd's homework time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 Although I absolutely intended to make sure he could use them eventually. I just discovered that they were a simple way to explain what the trig abbreviations meant. My son understood the ratio part just fine, and picked up on the inverse part without a hitch. He just kept saying, "But what is a sine?" despite having found some using big graph paper and solved quite a few problems using them. I think this was like the manipulative problems for little ones GRIN. No matter how many times I told him his calculator was the same as the tables, he didn't really understand it until he got to see the actual tables and use them. It turned out to be a good excersize because he had to extrapolate, deal with minutes and seconds, talk about what a nice number 60 is, work from the bottom up if the angle was more than 45, etc. And it was fun to look at all the other cool things in the book, like the table for the blackness of various materials. I don't quite see how tables are cheating but a calculator isn't? -Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Other people did the 'figuring' for the tables... the students get to use their work as short cuts! A calculator just replaces the 'other people' (as far as finding Trig values and such)--and students get to use it as a short cut! When using the table/calculator values to work a problem the students still need to do the calculations by hand--or by inputting the steps into a calculator... A calculator can do the computations faster--as long as they are inputted correctly...but it does not make finding the Trig values any easier--once a student understands the tables. My daughter's Geometry teacher told her that using Trig Tables was CHEATING!!! Calculators were permitted--(TI-83s) but not tables---I thought it was funny...and sad... I printed off tables to speed up my dd's homework time! Good to know. I mainly just want my dc to have done it both ways. Plus, while we don't yet own a graphing calculator (that's what we need for trig, isn't it?) our Algebra texts have the tables in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 The ONLY reason DS is going to get instruction in a graphing calculator is because the SAT assumes its use. Meaning, they measure out the time to do each problem based on the use of a calculator. Sad. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 The ONLY reason DS is going to get instruction in a graphing calculator is because the SAT assumes its use. Meaning, they measure out the time to do each problem based on the use of a calculator. Sad. a It is sad. I have two or three reasons. The first is the SAT, the second is that if dd wants to use one in university so she doesn't look weird (that may not be important for everyone, but she's not "cool") and third is because it's a skill I think 21st C dc ought to have. But I also think they ought to know how to do this stuff without a calculator, so it comes later. When dd does learn it, she'll use it to check her work once it's done and for SAT practice. Not sure about log tables though. I'll probably give her the choice once she knows both ways. During high school she needs to learn to make more and more of her choices as she starts to show reponsibility. In some ways she's responsible, but in other ways I'm still waiting for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Same here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 My math class was almost all children of engineers working for the same company. Our fathers put a high priority on math and thought calculators were wonderful, even when they still were expensive. For high school, I had a really nice scientific calculator that cost $80. So did my husband. This LOL LOL is almost exactly what we paid for our oldest's graphing calculator when he began high school. We used ours all the way through college, so I suppose it wasn't actually a bad investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicheleinMN Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 The scientific calculator I bought for college now costs about $13. I'm amazed at all that inexpensive little calculator can still do. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moni Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Which book/source to you use for the Trig Tables? We are coming up on Trig and I've always wanted to use the tables instead of calculator. Are Schaum's still around? if so, where? :001_smile: :seeya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Which book/source to you use for the Trig Tables? We are coming up on Trig and I've always wanted to use the tables instead of calculator. Are Schaum's still around? if so, where? :001_smile: :seeya: The old Dolcianis have trig and log tables in the appendices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moni Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 The old Dolcianis have trig and log tables in the appendices. Thanks. That's where they were last time I used them. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoriM Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 And then there is always the Internet: http://www.math.com/tables/trig/tables.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 I used the ones in Eshbach (probably mangled the spelling and I'm too lazy to go and look). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 GRIN - using the computer to access trig tables ... I say go for it. I love it when people deliberately pick and chose the technology they are going to use for a certain task. And I also love perfectly logical but on the surface illogical seeming choices. I make a lot of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 GRIN - using the computer to access trig tables ... I say go for it. I love it when people deliberately pick and chose the technology they are going to use for a certain task. And I also love perfectly logical but on the surface illogical seeming choices. I make a lot of those. I find myself printing out and filing a great deal of resources simply because I suspect, at some point, one of those solar flares is going to "do in" the internet. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Is the internet vulnerable to solar flares? I've been worrying more about something man-made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Is the internet vulnerable to solar flares? I've been worrying more about something man-made. Anything that uses a chip is vulnerable. And satellites are very vulnerable. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Anything that uses a chip is vulnerable. And satellites are very vulnerable. a On that note, print your slide rules while you have a chance. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 But chips aren't something like the ham band that has noticable trouble during the normal cycle of solar flares, are they? Or are they? Is this something that occurs already in small amounts or are you thinking a there might be a sudden large solar flare that wiped out lots of chips and satellites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 GRIN Sigh - the way math is going this morning, we should abandon it and go work on slide rules. Trying to get a child to interpret graphs when he has only a few more days of school and is doubling up on his math in order to finish the math book so he doesn't have to work during the summer (we might make it!!!) and just wants you to tell him the answers not make him take guesses at how taxis charge in cities when he lives where there are no taxis and he's only taken about two in his whole life is errrr interesting. Circular sliderules sounds MUCH better. I'm dreading telling him that he was supposed to draw stupid little pictures for the next problem instead of his beautiful neat (!!!! obviously trying HARD) bar chart. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 GRIN - using the computer to access trig tables ... I say go for it. I love it when people deliberately pick and chose the technology they are going to use for a certain task. And I also love perfectly logical but on the surface illogical seeming choices. I make a lot of those. :iagree:Also, re: another post you were involved with, Dh has an old slide rule that he never learned how to use. I'm going to print out those instructions (hopefully he kept it; I asked him to.) I've never used a slide rule, either. I suspect our dc will learn it the fastest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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