What would you do next and why? Calc, Statistics, other?

[Laurie4b]

Ds is completing Precalc. He's totally self-taught with Chalkdust and does pretty well, but math just isn't his thing. I remember nothing of high school math beyond Algebra I and Geom (and I don't really remember those, but can "get" them if I read the material) so I'm no help, nor is dh. I kind of worry that there are gaps because it's all been self-directed and he's not particularly confident as a test-taker.

 

Ds will be a junior this coming year.

 

College of choice wants 4 years of high school math, including the equivalent of AP Calc or AP Statistics.

 

We could buy Chalkdust Calc but it wouldn't be AP Calc.

He could take a math at the community college. If so, what?

Imo, statistics is a WHOLE lot more useful than calculus. I worry, though, that he would have a hard time keeping up with the pace at a cc.

I've read here that some folks recommend taking college algebra as the first cc course. Why?

As you can see, I'm floundering around here. Any help would be appreciated.

[Jane in NC]

Why could your son not take the AP Calc AB test after Chalkdust Calculus? The Larson text is commonly used for that course. You can't say AP Calc on your transcript but you can report the score from the test which to me "makes" the course an AP course.

 

I am going to recommend that you have a chat with Blue Hen here on our boards. Carole (aka Blue Hen) teaches AP statistics for PA Homeschoolers which I believe is a year long course. She could perhaps be more specific in the demands of the curriculum.

 

By the way, I for one do not recommend the College Algebra route for a student who is able to push on to a higher math course. Those who do recommend it suggest that repeating the material solidifies things for a student. It would have bored me to tears to have gone this route, given my mathematical inclination and need to go beyond the algorithms. It is hard to give blanket advice since all students are individuals, you know?

 

Jane

 

ETA: Aha! I see that the Chalkdust Calculus is missing a chapter that is in the AP syllabus, material on solids of revolution and centroids. Perhaps someone could be hired to tutor that material?

Edited June 15, 2009 by Jane in NC

[Susan C.]

People laughed at me for doing precalc with my son, I think we were the only ones in the county! They stopped at Alg. 2 (but some of them had their kids take college algebra as dual enrollment at a college). If math isn't his thing, I don't know if you could get him to take calculus, it is definitely a step up, I saw my son's book, it looked bad to me (and even though he got As through precalc, he didn't do very well with calc). At the college, there are other math courses, ours has a business calculus that is not quite as hard.

[kiana]

I think stats is more useful. You could also see if the university would accept business calculus, which (imo) is roughly the same level as precalculus.

 

Whether he should start lower than he places would depend on his ability to deal with 'I'm getting an A, but I already KNOW this stuff!' Some students gain confidence and deeper understanding, some shut down, learn nothing, and also don't do very well. You know your child best.

 

I would, however, recommend that if he barely places into a course he consider going one lower. Success rates are quite a bit lower for those close to the boundary.

 

Edited: If you chose to do it at home, notice that the wording says "Or equivalent". I am certain that taking a non-accredited course and passing the exam would suffice. But I still think stats is more useful (even though I love calculus).

[Jane in NC]

One more piece of information needed: what do you think that your son might study in college?

[Laurie4b]

Music definitely. I am encouraging him to double major so he can "have a day job" :) just in case. He's an excellent writer, very good at reading & analysis, poised public speaker. He thought about law for a while. If he doesn't end up earning his living with music, it may take him a while to land on another vocation that he could pursue passionately.

 

Other son is probably more headed toward engineering.

 

One of my qualms with ds1 is that he is not a good test taker if he's at all unsure of himself. He aces the reading/Eng parts of standardized testing, but tends to "freeze" in math, so I'm concerned about him taking an AP exam with self-study only. He's gotten stuck a couple times in precalculus.

[Kareni]

My teen took the PA Homeschoolers AP Statistics class with Carole Matheny in the school year that has just ended.

 

She came to the class having had Algebra I and II and Geometry at home followed by College Algebra and Trig at the local community college. (My understanding is that College Algebra plus Trigonometry is the equivalent of Precalculus.) So, her background is similar to your son's.

 

My daughter is not a big math fan though she does quite well at it. She'll be heading off to college this fall with the plan of majoring in the Classics. The AP Statistics class was a good fit for her. It was well organized and supervised. Ms. Matheny was very present to assist students with questions. I recommend the class highly.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Susan C.]

I would, however, recommend that if he barely places into a course he consider going one lower. Success rates are quite a bit lower for those close to the boundary.

 

 

 

 

Wish we had known that......painful year. With your son being a music major, theory will be hard enough, pick the lowest math he can get a credit with! And, if you do the dual enrollment, if he gets a borderline grade, it will transfer, but may not figure in his college GPA. Wish we had known that as well!

[Susan C.]

 

One of my qualms with ds1 is that he is not a good test taker if he's at all unsure of himself. He aces the reading/Eng parts of standardized testing, but tends to "freeze" in math, so I'm concerned about him taking an AP exam with self-study only. He's gotten stuck a couple times in precalculus.

 

My son's problem too, and he is creative (art and music). Ditto for testing, my son got 170-190 points more for critical reading and writing over the math on SAT. He did fine with precalc at home in senior year, but I did slow it down for him and prep him for tests. They sure don't do that in college, and that hurt him.

[Jane in NC]

One of my qualms with ds1 is that he is not a good test taker if he's at all unsure of himself. He aces the reading/Eng parts of standardized testing, but tends to "freeze" in math, so I'm concerned about him taking an AP exam with self-study only. He's gotten stuck a couple times in precalculus.

 

Got it. AP Calc via self study is not for the mathematically faint of heart.

 

I think you may want to investigate the AP stats that Kareni and I both mentioned in this thread. But this does still leave one problem, yes? Four years of high school math, rising junior. If he takes AP Stats in 11th, he must still take a math class in 12th, right? Perhaps redoing Precalc at a CC would help him establish confidence.

 

One other note: AP Calc AB is one semester of college math which is spread over a year in a traditional high school setting. That pace would definitely preferable should your son opt to try his hand at Calculus.

[Brenda in MA]

 

ETA: Aha! I see that the Chalkdust Calculus is missing a chapter that is in the AP syllabus, material on solids of revolution and centroids. Perhaps someone could be hired to tutor that material?

 

Jane & Laurie,

 

The material on revolution of solids & centroids is in the Calculus of a Single Variable text. It's just not in the part of the book that Chalkdust covers with its DVDs and solution manual.

 

If you get the DVDs from the publisher and the second solution guide, you would have all the material you need.

 

Last summer, I was able to find an AP Calc AB syllabus on the web for the Larson 8th edition book. I adapted it into a workable syllabus for us to use at home, and that is the course my son used. He did not however take the AP exam because I want him to repeat Calc I next fall at college and I didn't see any need in forking over the $$ to the College Board in that case.

 

Brenda

[Jane in NC]

Jane & Laurie,

 

The material on revolution of solids & centroids is in the Calculus of a Single Variable text. It's just not in the part of the book that Chalkdust covers with its DVDs and solution manual.

 

If you get the DVDs from the publisher and the second solution guide, you would have all the material you need.

 

Last summer, I was able to find an AP Calc AB syllabus on the web for the Larson 8th edition book. I adapted it into a workable syllabus for us to use at home, and that is the course my son used. He did not however take the AP exam because I want him to repeat Calc I next fall at college and I didn't see any need in forking over the $$ to the College Board in that case.

 

Brenda

 

Thanks Brenda. I now feel prepared to answer the inevitable questions that will arise on why I am using Larson's Transcendental Function Calculus (because I was given a copy with student manuals for free!) and what they difference is between this text and the single variable book.

 

No plan to use DVDs on this end. I enjoy teaching Calculus too much to go that route!

 

Jane

 

ETA: Oops--guess this post should have gone in the Larson thread that I started. Oh well.

[Laurie4b]

Got it. AP Calc via self study is not for the mathematically faint of heart.

 

I think you may want to investigate the AP stats that Kareni and I both mentioned in this thread. But this does still leave one problem, yes? Four years of high school math, rising junior. If he takes AP Stats in 11th, he must still take a math class in 12th, right? Perhaps redoing Precalc at a CC would help him establish confidence.

 

One other note: AP Calc AB is one semester of college math which is spread over a year in a traditional high school setting. That pace would definitely preferable should your son opt to try his hand at Calculus.

 

I guess I'm somewhat confused about that. I think what is specified is technically "two years beyond Algebra II." He's had precalc this year (Year 1) and will have something(!) next year: either Calculus or Statistics. I don't know whether that 4 years of math includes the Algebra I he had prior to high school. If it does, he could take one more course and be done with it. If that's the route, I'd go with statistics--either the AP course online (or to save money --Life of Fred at home first semester next year and Statistics at cc the next year.)

 

A qualm I have is that if we do statistics next year, it will make it much harder for him to ever do calculus with a year between precalc and calc.

[Blue Hen]

My teen took the PA Homeschoolers AP Statistics class with Carole Matheny in the school year that has just ended.

 

She came to the class having had Algebra I and II and Geometry at home followed by College Algebra and Trig at the local community college. (My understanding is that College Algebra plus Trigonometry is the equivalent of Precalculus.) So, her background is similar to your son's.

 

My daughter is not a big math fan though she does quite well at it. She'll be heading off to college this fall with the plan of majoring in the Classics. The AP Statistics class was a good fit for her. It was well organized and supervised. Ms. Matheny was very present to assist students with questions. I recommend the class highly.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

Thank you for your kind words Kareni!

 

The only math requirement for AP Statistics is Alg 2. The presence of the graphing calculator reduces tremendously the math calculations a student must perform. There is very little need to memorize formulas either since the AP Statistics exam supplies the student with 3 pages of formulas. Most of these formulas are in the calculator too.

 

Statistics is one of the most practical and applied courses (yes, not just practical math course) that one will ever take. Every day we hear about surveys, political polls, medical research findings,... describing statistical studies. This is a class that will teach you how to think critically about media claims. It is a course that is required by many majors, not just the science or engineering majors either.

 

OK, here's my plug for AP Statistics. This is, but it isn't a math class. You don't need to remember how to factor a polynomial, work with trig functions or prove that triangles are congruent. However, it isn't an easy class either. The student really needs to have good critical thinking and communication skills.

 

An advantage of taking AP Statistics is that the material is taught over a school year (8 months) instead of a semester in college so you do have more time to learn the material. When I taught Statistics in college the course spanned 12 weeks. We had little time for hands-on activities. There were topics we barely touched upon while my online class has the time to go in-depth on these topics as required by the College Board.

 

If you're interested in chatting about my online course contact me directly and/or visit my web page. At the very bottom of the website you can read some of my students feedback too.

 

Carole Matheny

carolemath at atlanticbb dot net