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making teeneagers practice music


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Speaking of strong-willed teens. :glare:....

 

My almost 15yo wanted to start playing guitar again and attend an out of town music camp. She has low confidence issues and thinks she stinks at everything. She played violin for about 5 years as a child and then guitar for 2 years. She stopped for a year or two and has just recently picked it up again.

 

She has such lovely long fingers, but is just a tad slow in motor skills (dysgraphic as well). She always has to work just a bit harder than everyone else and is now easily discouraged. My husband has put up a pretty penny to outfit her with new equipment and pay for the camp. She has a great teacher but is not practicing as she should.

 

How do I address this? Do I sit and practice with her as I did when she was a child? She'll be very put off with this. I know if she spends some time with the instrument she'll get better and enjoy it. As a teenager, she can't always see that far, know what I mean? My husband is already ready to take the lessons away from her after camp because of her flippant attitude. Lack of commitment and dedication is a hot spot for him. I probably have a tendency to baby her because of her academic difficulties and I just want her to have fun with her music. There must be a middle ground.

 

Any "been there done that"?

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Our ds plays piano and I insist that he either practice or pay for the lessons himself. I'm not paying for something like quality lessons, or in your case lessons and camp, if he isn't going to do his part. I'd come up with a reasonable number of hours to practice per week and make her keep a log. That way she will have to be responsible and will be able to see how much or how little time she is putting in.

 

Our piano teacher requires the same amount of practice time per day as the length of the lesson....so if a half hour lesson is taken then the student is expected to practice for .5 hours 5 times a week, or there abouts. She does cut that just a little for the hour long lessons, expecting 4.5 hours logged minimum time logged for a one hour lesson.

 

I can understand her being discouraged by the motor issues, but they won't get any better if she doesn't decide to apply herself. Tough love Mom...

 

Hope this helps.

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My 16 year old is also dysgraphic. He wanted to learn the guitar and I wouldn't let him take lessons because he had such a bad track record of not practicing in earlier years (piano and cello). It took him 2 months to get a good sound out of the guitar. I finally relented and let him take guitar lessons. Anyway, I am lucky in that he fell head over heels in love with the guitar and won't stop practicing. He has improved at an incredible rate. I think the key for him was finding other kids to play with. Once he started playing regularly with other kids his age, he was really motivated to work really hard to get better so they could all sound good together. I think sometimes just practicing at home and then going to lessons can get dull, no matter how much you like the instrument. That is why guitar camp is probably so appealing. So my advice would be to help her find other kids that she can play with regularly. I don't know what kind of music she is into but she could try playing at church, or maybe a music school or public school has some kind of opportunities? My ds plays at church, Paul Green School of Rock and with an informal bunch of guys he knows. Everytime there is a teen get together everybody brings their guitars and they all jam. It is spectacular! Maybe her guitar teacher knows of opportunities to play with others.

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My parents would only pay for lessons if I practiced. While I never practiced enough, they kept paying as long as I did a certain amount. I did not have dysgraphia, just hated practicing.

 

Flippant attitudes are very common at that age. You may wish to address attidude and practicing separately.

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Yes, we are always addressing attitudes as all are parents :D. It is a parenting issue, isn't it? She's a good kid, she just doesn't like to feel babysat and wants more independence. Since she's still a kid, she falls short of expectations at times and gets defensive.

 

So I talked to her this morning over coffee :lol: and she did say that she practiced last night for an hour. She found some old songs in her memory bank and revived them and had fun. DH likes to go into her room and say, "Play me a song." It really puts dd on the spot and she doesn't really know a lot of songs all the way through. She plays rock and bits of classical, so she knows riffs and pieces that require a band to get the whole piece, if you know what I mean. Plus her teacher always has her focusing on a new scale or set of triads for the week. He's really into theory so she's better at scales at this point than songs, lol!

 

I do think playing with other kids would be a great benefit. She wants to go to public school in 11th grade (she's starting 10th) and one reason is to take guitar classes there every day with other kids. Going away to this camp is a big trip for her because she is rather introverted.

 

I don't want to take anything away from her because I really do believe she will view it as another failure on her part. Instead I want her to keep what she has and help her be successful.

Edited by Laura R (FL)
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What worked for me to get me to practice was peer pressure. I played in my public school band, and the "threat" of being challenged and going down a seat made me practice.

 

How about a gentler form of peer pressure for your DD? Can she join a school orchestra? A city-wide youth orchestra or symphonic band? How about a church orchestra or worship band -- especially a youth church worship group? Can you get her into a quartet/quintet or jazz band of high school students who play "gigs" at a local restaurant, street fair, charity events, for weddings, etc.?

 

Having a *reason* to practice can really help self-motivate a person! BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

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Laura,

I wrote a reply on the general board a while back. It was a similar question. However, it was more along the lines of "how long should my kids practice piano." I thought I'd repost it here because it is somewhat applicable.

 

To answer your original question, my dd seems ok practicing midweek for the most part. She does not want to practice on the weekends! So, the rule is that nothing else happens (except breakfast) until practicing is done. She can't play on the computer, watch t.v., read a book or do art. Practicing must be started by noon, or we start imposing consequences. We've never had to do it yet, but there is often wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

The problem is that nobody wants to practice after going and doing something fun. So, at our house, you have to practice before going to the fun and tiring weekend activities.

 

I'd also like to mention that many students don't feel like they play particularly well until 3-4 years of playing an instrument. And frankly, they are probably right. It takes a while to master an instrument. Those students with good hearing (discerning listening skills) are even more critical of themselves. In the end, this is a good thing. They hear what they need to improve. However, it can be quite a challenge to motivate someone who knows they don't sound great. I, personally, didn't think I sounded very good until I was a senior in high school. I still can't listen to my senior (college) recital without shuddering. Don't get me wrong. I do like to play. However, my ear is far too sensitive to actually enjoy my own playing in a recording.

 

One of the things that was very motivational for me growing up was to play with other students in honor orchestras. I think that the challenge of getting in motivated me to practice. Then the potential embarrassment of messing up in front of my peers made me practice. Finally, the idea that I might not get to see my friends the following year made me practice all year-long. So, I agree with the poster who said that social factors can be motivational. For me social factors were half the story, the other half is that I am pretty competitive.

 

From my earlier post (w/comments from Dirth Ethel Rackham as well):

Even Yo-Yo Ma says he hates to practice. I play professionally and have never met anyone-anyone-who says they like to practice. They like the results of practice.

 

That said,

 

DD-15 (when she was 12 it was closer to 45 min for both instruments)

Harp 1 hour a day 7 days a week

Piano 1 hour a day 6 days a week

Weekends are longer. Before big competitions, harp camp or recitals she practices longer. The thought of public humiliation is motivating. Because it is so much to do at one time, harp is before school and piano is after school. A lesson counts as practice.

 

She rarely "wants" to practice. I make her. It makes me crazy. I have to make myself practice. I'm working on Pictures at an Exhibition right now. It is making me crazy. Yes, I live in crazyland folks.

 

DS-9

Piano 20 minutes 6 days a week

He does not mind practicing. He does it as part of his school day. He only doesn't mind because his music is not that hard. He does get frustrated and annoyed while practicing. He is going to do piano festival this year for the first time. We'll see how the attitude changes.

 

OH-and just to be really clear. We have an extremely challenging Russian harp teacher who is demanding at EVERY lesson. The piano teacher is less intense, but dd is playing music that is demanding-Chopin & Shostakovitch.

 

IMPORTANT:

Do not confuse playing an instrument and practicing an instrument. When I go play a gig with a quartet, I am playing. I enjoy it. People (hopefully) enjoy listening. I'm not playing anything that I can't easily play and we are just moving from song to song. It is fun.

 

When I practice I am deliberately choosing things I cannot play. I have to slow it down, take it in tiny pieces, use a metronome, use a tuner, wear out my arm, strain my ears and frustrate myself. Then I improve. Then I do it again...and again....and again....and my playing still stinks. Then over the course of a lot of time and effort I improve. And as I improve I pick more junk I cannot do and I learn that. And I am in a constant state of stinkiness as the music gets harder and harder. And I am always self-critical........so I can get better. But, I am never good enough.

 

And that my friends, is music. You play and enjoy yourself. You practice and want to tear out your eyelashes. Or eardrums-but they are harder to get to-ha!

 

The other issue is humor. If your kids are playing an instrument and they are younger, bring a special stuffed animal to cheer them on. My 9 year old ds still likes it. If your older kid wants help as mine did a few minutes ago, say something funny, "Let's just throw this ol' harp out the window." Humor is really important in situations like this. Show the kids that you can have a pleasant attitude while being tortured! That, in fact, should be my new motto-pleasant torture. My motto was Serenity Now, but maybe I'll have to change it.

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirty ethel rackham

I guess it would depend on your goals. If music is very important and the plan is for it to have a major part in one's life (career or something,) then I can see this kind of approach.

Those are not my goals. I want my kids to learn perseverance, how to establish and meet long term goals and see that they can accomplish things that seem, at times, unattainable. I do not want to see them go to school for music. I would like to see them get music scholarships. Dh got his pre-med biology degree because his viola abilities made it possible.

 

 

Quote:

I would much rather put my energies toward encouraging arduous practice of math, writing and scientific exploration that I would piano.

We do all of that, too. With gusto. It does not have to be one or the other.

 

Quote:

My kids do not aspire to perform or teach. They take it because it is the only avenue that I have for getting any musical instruction in our home school.

That's cool. Everyone finds their own path.

 

 

 

Quote:

Dh was forced to take organ lessons for 9 years. In the 20 years I have known him, I have NEVER heard him play. He has never even sat down at the piano in our home. I do not want to do that to my kids.

Wellllllllll, we probably just have different philosophies. If my kids make that choice, they make that choice. I hope they'll play at weddings in college to make some extra $. Maybe they will teach lessons for extra $. Hopefully they'll play in orchestras for fun as adults as my dh and I do. But, if they choose to quit and never play again, I believe that is there choice. It has nothing to do with what "I did to them." They are adults. But, that is the free choice libertarian side coming out.....

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I've been on all sides of this -- a teen reluctant to practice, a mom with a kid who wouldn't practice and now a teacher of students who don't practice. There is no easy answer!

 

I think the most important thing is to give her the chance to find what brings her joy in music. For me it has always about playing in an ensemble, and several others have recommended this as well. Even as an adult I need being part of an esemble for the motivation to practice.

 

Other ideas would be to have her pick out some music she would like to learn and tell her teacher she wants to add it into her lessons. Make sure she has lots of different genres of guitar music to listen to. Ask her teacher to model how to play by ear when listening to favorite rock or pop tunes as those are usually simple 3 chord structure and are easy to pick up.

 

Insist on a minimum amount of practice time -- perhaps her teacher would be happy if she keeps a log. Make an agreement with her that if she doesn't maintain that practice time after you've tried the above positive incentives, you will stop paying for lessons. Talk with her about the goals of taking private lessons -- ultimately she is working to have the tools to continue playing for the rest of her life so lesson aren't something that will continue indefinitely.

 

And tell your dh to stop putting your dd on the spot to "play a song"! That isn't helping matters!

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So I talked to her this morning over coffee :lol: and she did say that she practiced last night for an hour. She found some old songs in her memory bank and revived them and had fun. DH likes to go into her room and say, "Play me a song." It really puts dd on the spot and she doesn't really know a lot of songs all the way through. .

 

 

This can be tough. As another poster mentioned, many don't feel ready for this until they've played for a few years. If there's a way to gently suggest that he wait. Is performance the only goal in studying music? How about just playing for yourself because you enjoy it.

 

I think the idea of playing in an ensemble is a fabulous one. I would have never played the oboe if it weren't for the school band. I was talked into it, but loved it. However, due to my piano, I never practiced it at home. I sight read the music and learned at band practice, which was 5 days a week. While I certainly didn't play nearly as well as I would have had I taken lessons with a private teacher (there weren't any oboists in my village) and practiced at home 7 days a week, I was able to play first oboe (I was the only one, but he could have given me the second oboe part--that's been done before.)

 

While I sold my oboe years ago, it taught me a great appreciation for the oboe and I love oboe concertos, solos, etc as a result. It also increased my knowledge and understanding of other instruments (if you can play the oboe, there isn't a woodwind or a brass instrument too difficult for you to blow!)

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just curious: is the teacher concerned with the progress/practice or are you and/or your husband displeased with the committment your see compared to the money you are spending?

 

a student needs to find their own joy in playing. sometimes having (what may feel like) a burdensome practice length requirement can be deadening. OTOH, students who are asked to practce "just 10 minutes" find themselves still going at it an hour or so later. it's getting started that's often hard but that's softened by thinking of a manageable chunk.

 

also, as others have said, your husband is not being helpful by asking her to perform like a trick pony. it's really another way of saying "show me that my money is being well spent" and on some level your daughter knows that.

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just curious: is the teacher concerned with the progress/practice or are you and/or your husband displeased with the committment your see compared to the money you are spending?

 

a student needs to find their own joy in playing. sometimes having (what may feel like) a burdensome practice length requirement can be deadening. OTOH, students who are asked to practce "just 10 minutes" find themselves still going at it an hour or so later. it's getting started that's often hard but that's softened by thinking of a manageable chunk.

 

also, as others have said, your husband is not being helpful by asking her to perform like a trick pony. it's really another way of saying "show me that my money is being well spent" and on some level your daughter knows that.

 

Bingo! For him it's about getting his money's worth. I don't mean for that to sound as harsh as it does...but that is what he has said. I think he is stressing out over the cost of activities for our kids. It's really my youngest who studies classical ballet and musical theater. Those $90 pointe shoes will get to you! My youngest is also a much more intense kid who loves performing and throws herself into things. My oldest is much more reserved and does not like to perform in front of people.

 

The teacher is fine with her progress and told me that he doesn't want to push her away from playing...he wants her learn and progress but to enjoy it as well.

 

Thanks everyone for your input.

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