mommaduck-Gothard questions

[Tabrett]

OK mommaduck, you said I could ask!:D

 

Just curious what Gothartites believe and what their Biblical reasons are? So here I go........(his-refers to Gothard)

 

1. Why do the girls only wear denim skirts?

2. What are his rules for dress (men and women) and what verses does he cite to prove his point?

3. What are the hair style rules?

4. What are his make-up rules and why?

5. Who’s authority (umbrella) is a widowed woman with children under? And how would she go about “courting†without a dad to be under?

6. What kid of “medical†training can you get?

7. What happens if you husband is not a Christian or Gothard follower?

8. Why is Contemporary Christian music bad?

[newlifemom]

:lurk5:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know, I am nosy. :tongue_smilie:

[Gretchen in NJ]

:lurk5:

Great Questions. I love learning about different points of view and beliefs.

[Cheryl in NM]

I was curious too so I went to Wikipedia and got the link for Gothard's website.

 

It gives scriptural references.

[mommaduck]

1. Why do the girls only wear denim skirts?

 

Fabric isn't an issue (unless it's ridiculous). Denim is simply a practical material just as with pants. Jeans hold up to more activity ;) (btw, I love my denim skirts also ;) )

 

The skirt issue is simply one of modesty and is not exclusive to Gothard or Christianity. You will find ATI families where the women wear pants. Modesty is dictated, application is sometimes varied, and suggestions ignored.

 

2. What are his rules for dress (men and women) and what verses does he cite to prove his point?

 

His comments on clothes are as follows:

 

Basic Red Book pg 12: Evidences of self-rejection A. Over Attention on Clothes...undue concern for clothes may be an attempt to cover up or compensate for unchangeable physical features which are rejected. Jesus linked these two thought in Mathhew 6:27, 28 "Which of you by takin thought can add on cubit unto his stature? And why take ye thought for raiment?" (he laters points out that any dissatisfaction with our physical appearance is a rejection of what Gd has created and thus a sin)

 

Basic Red Book pg 108: Chart on "Expect Gd to Test Yielded Rights #3 Clothes...Concentrate on "a meek and quiet spirit which are in the sight of God a great price." (verse listed 1 Peter 3:3,4)

 

From having seen his other materials personally, but not owning them, I can verify that he has rules and diagrams on acceptable clothing, hair, and make up. He shows what is and is not acceptable. Examples I remember are things like:

 

Long hair on men or boys is a sign of rebellion, as are beards and goatees (unless you have a religious exemption for a full beard).

 

Neat and tidy clothing (with pictures circa 1980's fashion...don't know if they updates those drawings or not).

 

Untucked shirts = signs of rebellion.

 

Women should button the blouse all the way and if possible where a string tie, scarf, or something else to bring the attention up to their face.

 

Makeup should be worn, but in appropriate subdued colours to the person's skin tone and if they are Spring/Summer/Autumn/Winter (you can tell this is dated).

 

Hair should be kempt at all times and style in an appropriate manner (yes, he's for hairspray and all that...it's not about minimalisation, it's more like that drunk child pagent princess on House that said, "must be perfect..."

 

3. What are the hair style rules?

 

Neat, tidy...looking like you did something with it. You would have to see the pictures though ;) It was the cut, curled, and feathered :P

 

4. What are his make-up rules and why?

 

He follows by the "what season are you determines what colours you wear"

 

5. Who’s authority (umbrella) is a widowed woman with children under? And how would she go about “courting†without a dad to be under?

 

She would be under her church's authority and possibly her son's depending upon who you are and how you want to take his umbrella teaching. He didn't discuss it in the Basic Seminar and I didn't note it in the Advanced Red Book.

 

6. What kid of “medical†training can you get?

 

Supposedly you can "train" to become a midwife (females only of course...their other option through his programs is a beautician). I've heard that both programs are scary (hearsay) and would be better to seek other routes (from an ATIer).

 

From William Dabney, MD in the book A Matter of Basic Principles pg 280 (there is a whole section here titled Bill Gothard - Medicine Man)

 

I have been increasingly alarmed since our association with Mr. Gothard over the last ten years, and over the last eight years as part of his home-school program, that he has overstepped his bounds in medicine. My daughter spent two and a half years int he midwifery training program and finally I took her out of it because of a lack of clinical experience and clinical training. They emphasized a lot of the spiritual side of medicine. They emphasized Scripture memory and doing analogies on every illness or disease as being perhaps caused by a spiritual illness.

 

He offers "medical information" and ties it all into the Law. You have to remember that he was forming many of his opinions and talks through the 50's, 60's, and 70's.

 

Boys are still required by Gd's Law to be circumcised citing Lev. 12 and 15.

 

You must constantly watch what you eat, watch your weight, etc or you might be committing the sins of gluttony, slothfulness, etc. (I remember my friend obsessing about this...she was NOT overweight...it was like watching the preacher from The Scarlett Letter).

 

MTIA Booklet I says to start by writing your name in the booklet, write the meaning of your name, then write how that meaning relates to good health...example given: My name is Bill, Bill means protector, "I am to protect my own health and the health of others. (apparently there is a curative inherent power to a name...ATI Wisdom Booklet 17...where is talks about a woman named Maria and her bitterness and her cancer, because that is what Mary/Maria/etc means).

 

He gives a personal assessment list, that is very subjective, for figuring out what is wrong.

 

There is discussion about Constipation being the "most neglected sign and cause of illness", how to spiritually handle it :confused:, demonic birthing rooms (including a teen daughter that collects trolls...of course, once the troll doll left is removed, stalled out mama starts dilating again...same with cabbage patch dolls...you know, those cute but evil things we grew up with ;) gasp! maybe it's because we don't know what the sins of their fathers were :lol: )

 

He takes a lot of natural care and nutritional stuff and tries to tie it all in with illness (understandable), sin, and spiritual conditions.

 

7. What happens if you husband is not a Christian or Gothard follower?

 

Just pray for him and obey him...in. every. thing.

 

8. Why is Contemporary Christian music bad?

 

The beat is bad. It stirs up rebellion. It's not beautiful and Gd likes beautiful music. Some have even taken this further with determining good and evil based on which beat the emphasis is on.

 

 

 

The basic seminar is mostly about rebellion, attitudes, chain of authority, umbrella of authority, etc. That's to hook you in. The rest comes in the other stuff.

[mommaduck]

A major flaw with his twisting of scripture and the leads he puts in is that anyone can take what he says and continue running with it into the ridiculous.

[Bess]

MTIA Booklet I says to start by writing your name in the booklet, write the meaning of your name, then write how that meaning relates to good health...example given: My name is Bill, Bill means protector, "I am to protect my own health and the health of others. (apparently there is a curative inherent power to a name...ATI Wisdom Booklet 17...where is talks about a woman named Maria and her bitterness and her cancer, because that is what Mary/Maria/etc means).

 

 

 

Seriously, seriously, seriously??? Where in the world does he get *that*?!!!!!!!!! :confused:

[mommaduck]

Seriously, seriously, seriously??? Where in the world does he get *that*?!!!!!!!!! :confused:

 

Well Bill said it, so it must be true, right? :001_huh:

 

 

 

 

:rolleyes::ack2:

 

Here's the quote from that booklet per the book:

 

"Did you know that the basic meaning from which your name comes is myrrh, like the myrrh that the wise men brought as one of the three precious gifts to Christ? The myrrh is a bitter plant..."

Maria interupted her, "O yes, my husband always tells me that I'm bitter."

The director's wife picked up on this statement. "Maria, did you know that the Bible says that bitterness will poison your body and the lives of those around you and can even cause you to have cancer of the bone marrow?"

"O yes," said Maria. "The doctors told me last week that I have cancer."

 

 

 

Another thing I just read.

 

In Basic Care Bulletin 8 - How to Understand and Treat Morning Sickness, MTIA writes:

 

"Christian women who are committed to Godly standards often have greater difficulties during pregnancy and childbirth than other women."

 

The assertion is made with no statistics or scientific data. He simply states that this is true and moves on to build a case for why this is necessary:

 

"Because God's whole program depends upon raising up sons and daughters who are mighty in spirit, it would be expected that Satan will do all he can to oppose and destroy the Godly seed."

 

yyeeeah, right. Sure, Bill...let me know how your pregnancy goes ;)

Edited May 28, 2009 by mommaduck

[DawnM]

I also noticed there was a special attention to wearing collard shirts.....must have something to do with the neatness.

 

The Duggar boys all wear polo or button down shirts with collars tucked in to their shorts or pants. The Duggar girls used to only wear collared shirts but I noticed lately they don't always....and the alway have their shirts untucked.

 

I noticed that most of the pictures on Gothard's website were 80s looking and that Michelle Duggar has the same hairstyle she did in the 80's. I asked my husband if wearing outdated styles makes you more spiritual and he said, "Well, what time period do you think you need to stagnate in? If the 80s were holy, just think how much more holy the early 1900s are!"

 

Granted, my husband has a goatee and is very rebelious, so what does he know?

 

Dawn

[mommaduck]

I also noticed there was a special attention to wearing collard shirts.....must have something to do with the neatness.

 

The Duggar boys all wear polo or button down shirts with collars tucked in to their shorts or pants. The Duggar girls used to only wear collared shirts but I noticed lately they don't always....and the alway have their shirts untucked.

 

I noticed that most of the pictures on Gothard's website were 80s looking and that Michelle Duggar has the same hairstyle she did in the 80's. I asked my husband if wearing outdated styles makes you more spiritual and he said, "Well, what time period do you think you need to stagnate in? If the 80s were holy, just think how much more holy the early 1900s are!"

 

Granted, my husband has a goatee and is very rebelious, so what does he know?

 

Dawn

 

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

We get odd looks: I'm a skirt/headcovering/hoop or native earrings wearing mama and my man has a shaved head and a goatee...likes his t-shirts, jeans, and work boots ;) He's been making me get rid of the frump and having the girls wear more sylish, though still modest, clothes.

[Bess]

 

Granted, my husband has a goatee and is very rebelious, so what does he know?

 

Dawn

 

:lol: :D Better find out what his name means!! :tongue_smilie:

[DawnM]

Oh dear....is there something about names and meaning?

 

I missed that.

 

Dawn

 

:lol: :D Better find out what his name means!! :tongue_smilie:

[Hapax Legomena]

Here is a link to some articles the Midwest Christian Outreach published concerning Gothard: http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/bill-gothards-evangelical-talmud-part-1.

[Bess]

Oh dear....is there something about names and meaning?

 

I missed that.

 

Dawn

 

 

Yep, you guessed it...

 

Originally Posted by mommaduck

MTIA Booklet I says to start by writing your name in the booklet, write the meaning of your name, then write how that meaning relates to good health...example given: My name is Bill, Bill means protector, "I am to protect my own health and the health of others. (apparently there is a curative inherent power to a name...ATI Wisdom Booklet 17...where is talks about a woman named Maria and her bitterness and her cancer, because that is what Mary/Maria/etc means).

[DawnM]

Ok, now I think I have heard it all......off to look!

 

So, the mother of Jesus means bitterness......well, isn't that lovely.

 

Dawn

 

Yep, you guessed it...

 

Originally Posted by mommaduck

MTIA Booklet I says to start by writing your name in the booklet, write the meaning of your name, then write how that meaning relates to good health...example given: My name is Bill, Bill means protector, "I am to protect my own health and the health of others. (apparently there is a curative inherent power to a name...ATI Wisdom Booklet 17...where is talks about a woman named Maria and her bitterness and her cancer, because that is what Mary/Maria/etc means).

[DawnM]

Ok, now I see why my husband acts the way he does! Oh dear, we are all in trouble! (if you only knew how laid back my husband is you would find this as funny as I do!) :lol:

 

"James" is a boy's name derived from Hebrew meaning "the supplanter" or "the overthrower" or "the displacer".

Edited May 28, 2009 by DawnM

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

A major flaw with his twisting of scripture and the leads he puts in is that anyone can take what he says and continue running with it into the ridiculous.

 

 

That is what kept me from ever considering becoming a member of ATI. I have two very good friends who were in the program for years. They always raved about it. One of them lent me many of her books to read. I was really turned of by the way scripture was used for things that had no correlation or context. I also noticed there was no questioning. Gothard's teachings were all right, all the time??? Questioning authority is a big no-no.

 

Then my friend's children started growing up. My friends began to wonder if so many things they had prohibited and avoided were really all that wrong when their children started questioning the rigidity. Both families began to relax their standards, now they have a totally different dynamic that doesn't fit well with ATI at all. They eventually left. I think they still have guilt though.

 

The medical/spiritual stuff was incredible. Can you imagine the horrible guilt and depression that must happen if you believe that every single physical ailment is caused by a specific sin in your life?

[DawnM]

And combing THAT with adoption......my youngest is adopted and he was born with physical deformities......he must have had very sinful parents and now we have taken on the sins of his fathers! :scared:

 

Never mind that he loves Jesus and is the sweetest thing you have ever met!

 

Dawn

 

The medical/spiritual stuff was incredible. Can you imagine the horrible guilt and depression that must happen if you believe that every single physical ailment is caused by a specific sin in your life?

[Tabrett]

mommaduck,

 

All I can say is wow! I am picking my jaw up off the floor!!!

 

The Duggers don't seem to follow all those regulations! They make up names for their kids or draw a name out of a jar from suggestions!!

 

How can a person follow regulations like Gothard. That is unbelievable! Jesus came to set us free from the law not set up a new law that is just as hard to follow!

 

:confused::confused::confused:

[amy g.]

Well, I think I'm finding the source of some of my parenting problems.

 

Miss Bossy's first name means "famous or renowned warrior". Her middle name means "strong in war/victorious in battle".

 

How can I, a simple "beloved white wave" ever hope to win a power struggle with her?

 

My older kids are begging me to PLEASE pay more attention to the new baby's name!

[Hapax Legomena]

Six additional Midwest Christian Outreach articles about Gothard can be accessed by going to http://midwestoutreach.org/02-Information/02-OnlineReference/04-Etc/01-TheJournal/index.html.

 

 

In light of some of the comments that have been made in this thread, you may wish to read that article. The Nov/Dec issue discusses the issues of authority and misuse of Scripture.

[mommaduck]

Six additional Midwest Christian Outreach articles about Gothard can be accessed by going to http://midwestoutreach.org/02-Information/02-OnlineReference/04-Etc/01-TheJournal/index.html.

 

 

In light of some of the comments that have been made in this thread, you may wish to read that article. The Nov/Dec issue discusses the issues of authority and misuse of Scripture.

 

What is the name of the article? The selections are listed by season and year not months.

[SonshineLearner]

You've read the book about Gothard, right? I went to find it on amazon, but can't. It has a red cover, I think. Anyway, I would not say that someone with say...his Character Sketches, is a cultist. I WOULD say that it's interesting and important to note who wrote them....and what period of his life this was from....which,.....if I remember correctly....was when he was taking a break somewhere after some "problems in the office."

I grew up in OK and TX and so I knew a lot of Gothard people. I told one lady that I use to babysit for...that I hoped he wasn't like say...Swaggart (sp?) and living a sinful life while making money. She called me later saying that she felt guilty that she hadn't defended him...after all...he was like their apostle...like in the Bible... Well, I've read enough about him lying and troubles in the office, to know he's not above reproach...and in my limited knowledge, believe he has NO business speaking to groups...especially without public confession of all the problems that he hid. I don't think he meant to become a cult...I just think he got "lucky". (And the list goes on about all of the things he's done/ seen done...and that what...'71 Corolla...does he still have that??)

Carrie

[SonshineLearner]

Oh...I see the name thing mentioned. Some of the Gothardites I knew changed one of their daughters names from Bethany to "Mary Beth" when she was like...7?? (Because of Gothard and meanings) I was like 17 and thought..."Why didn't they just change the spelling to "Beth Anne/Annie" so that her name's meaning was "more fitting" instead of the whole name!

Carrie

[Leah]

I also noticed there was a special attention to wearing collard shirts.....must have something to do with the neatness.

 

The Duggar boys all wear polo or button down shirts with collars tucked in to their shorts or pants. The Duggar girls used to only wear collared shirts but I noticed lately they don't always....and the alway have their shirts untucked.

 

I noticed that most of the pictures on Gothard's website were 80s looking and that Michelle Duggar has the same hairstyle she did in the 80's. I asked my husband if wearing outdated styles makes you more spiritual and he said, "Well, what time period do you think you need to stagnate in? If the 80s were holy, just think how much more holy the early 1900s are!"

 

Granted, my husband has a goatee and is very rebelious, so what does he know?

 

Dawn

 

Collared shirts are neat and as an added bonus, they frame the face and draw the eyes of those around you to your face. Then when people see your face, they will hopefully see the light in your eyes that shines brightly because you don't listen to anything with a rock beat (rock music darkens the eyes...)

 

:tongue_smilie:

[Blueridge]

Through the years our family has known many, many ATI families. While most of them were dear, precious people, there was always the feeling I personally got that I was 'on the outside looking in'. My dh and I attended a basic seminar and, although the length of it left us exhausted, we did feel as though we gained perspective on things. Secretly (I admit) we wanted to 'belong' or 'feel worthy' of our friend's trust and fellowship. :confused: Some of Gothard's ideas are good and Biblically sound, but there are so many behind-the-scenes teachings and assumptions that are so extra-Biblical and dangerous. I know personally 2 ladies who's lives have been forever shaped by the intense expectation to have large families despite numerous health problems. This has caused them great sadness and I find it heartbreaking. I think large families are lovely, but the unspoken pressure some have felt to have many, many children can be devastating. There also seems to be a need to have a 'facade' of perfectness, where the children always behave willingly, dresses are always lovely and usually handmade and matching, the men always know what to do in every situation so the wives have no need for doubt or worry, etc. I love these lovely friends of mine, but I also fear for them that the pressure they seem to live beneath is crushing.

[HeatherLynn]

Collared shirts are neat and as an added bonus, they frame the face and draw the eyes of those around you to your face. Then when people see your face, they will hopefully see the light in your eyes that shines brightly because you don't listen to anything with a rock beat (rock music darkens the eyes...)

 

:tongue_smilie:

 

So THAT is why my eyes don't *pop* the way they used to. :lol:

[mommaduck]

He may have "gotten lucky", but he's run with it. For all his talk of "authority" he has none over him and no one that holds him accountable. He has abused his authority many times. He ignored his brother's sexual advances towards young girls while working at his centers/camps, until it became too much of a ruckus. Kids have been locked up in his "juvenile re-education center" and I have heard horror stories come out of that place. This is no man that simply, "means no harm, just hit it big, thus attacked" issue.

 

http://www.yuricareport.com/Ohio/GothardJuvenileCtrInvestigated.html

 

http://www.rickross.com/groups/gothard.html

 

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=818906&ClientType=Printable

 

http://fornits.com/anonanon/articles/200201/20020116-0.htm

 

 

There are also several "survivor" groups out there for those that were either raised in ATI or sent to the Juvenile Center.

[Bess]

Collared shirts are neat and as an added bonus, they frame the face and draw the eyes of those around you to your face. Then when people see your face, they will hopefully see the light in your eyes that shines brightly because you don't listen to anything with a rock beat (rock music darkens the eyes...)

 

:tongue_smilie:

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[mommaduck]

You've read the book about Gothard, right? I went to find it on amazon, but can't. It has a red cover, I think.

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Matter-Basic-Principles-Gothard-Christian/dp/0974252808

[Hapax Legomena]

What is the name of the article? The selections are listed by season and year not months.

 

Here is the list of articles:

 

Bill Gothard and Medical Issues

 

Gothard and the Law

 

An Evening With Bill Gothard

 

Bill Gothard's Evangelical Talmud

 

Bill Gothard's Evangelical Talmud part-2

 

When Gothard Comes To Church

 

Bill Gothard's Powerless Gospel

 

I haven't read all of these articles, but it appears that the first article is "Bill Gothard's Evangelical Talmud." It tells about how his background, how he got started and why people seemed attracted to his message. The second Talmud article talks about authority and misuse of the Bible. That is a point some of the posts in this thread have mentioned. It may be of particular interest as well.

[mommaduck]

Yeah, I've read the Talmud one. I'll have to see what other articles I have on him in my heresy shelf :p

[Denisemomof4]

Ok, now I think I have heard it all......off to look!

 

So, the mother of Jesus means bitterness......well, isn't that lovely.

 

Dawn

 

 

 

that's what I was thinking! How can they possibly get ANYONE to believe that?

 

I'm SURE there are MANY Mary's who have NOT gotten cancer due to their bitterness. Don't the Gothard followers think of that?

 

it scares me to know what people will follow. I just left a church where the pastor openly sinned, the elders stood by him and never held him accountable, the pastor continued to sin and ran people away, be totally unloving and harsh, criticize people who didn't conform to what he said (he thought it was rebellion when members wouldn't use the NIV bible ONLY as he instructed them to do) and then he had the entire congregation, well, who was left anyway (only two families remain, everyone else is new and the church had 150 members last year) sign contracts stating that they'd never gossip about the pastor. I mean, HONESTLY! What type of person would follow/support this crap?

 

Some of the Gothard stuff can make sense. I can understand wearing light make-up and conservative clothing. I say this as I sit in my BRIGHTLY colored, tye dye shirt. :tongue_smilie: Never knew what a rebel I was. Oh, guess what? I'm wearing EYELINER - oh SIN OF SINS!!! :lol:

 

I can understand SOME of the stuff. But the other stuff is just waaaaaaaaaaaaay out there and I don't understand how ANYONE could conform to this man's teachings and lifestyle.

 

Honestly, these people have made Bill Gothard their god. The people in my past church made that pastor their god. How sad for them, and for God.

[SonshineLearner]

http://www.amazon.com/Matter-Basic-Principles-Gothard-Christian/dp/0974252808

 

 

Yes!! That's the one! It is a REAL eye opener.... Seems like everyone wants a leader.... instead, we should keep our eyes on the true authority! Jesus Christ.

 

Carrie:-)

[Blueridge]

I have enjoyed the info on the meaning of names. Most of our ATI friends have all their children's names begin with a *J*, which I thought curious. Perhaps they want them to reflect *Jesus*? So I looked it up, and my name is from Latin and means 'spring like, flourishing'...so I wonder if it's interpretation would mean that I should have had 25 children? :001_huh: My dh's name comes from the Hebrew word meaning 'who is like God?'...which certainly explains his ego. :D Teasing! Really, I am.

[catalinakel]

Well, I think I'm finding the source of some of my parenting problems.

 

Miss Bossy's first name means "famous or renowned warrior". Her middle name means "strong in war/victorious in battle".

 

How can I, a simple "beloved white wave" ever hope to win a power struggle with her?

 

My older kids are begging me to PLEASE pay more attention to the new baby's name!

 

:lol:

[mommaduck]

I have enjoyed the info on the meaning of names. Most of our ATI friends have all their children's names begin with a *J*, which I thought curious. Perhaps they want them to reflect *Jesus*? So I looked it up, and my name is from Latin and means 'spring like, flourishing'...so I wonder if it's interpretation would mean that I should have had 25 children? :001_huh: My dh's name comes from the Hebrew word meaning 'who is like God?'...which certainly explains his ego. :D Teasing! Really, I am.

 

 

We tease some of ours. I have one named after two prophets! Oh boy! And I have another whose name means "little fire". I have a girl whose name means bitter and she is anything but! Patience is sometimes patient and sometimes not.

[catalinakel]

Collared shirts are neat and as an added bonus, they frame the face and draw the eyes of those around you to your face. Then when people see your face, they will hopefully see the light in your eyes that shines brightly because you don't listen to anything with a rock beat (rock music darkens the eyes...)

 

:tongue_smilie:

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[Tabrett]

Is the Maxwell family (The makers of Managers Of There Homes material) Gotherdites? They do look the part and the Dugger family follows their chore chart. I know the Maxwell's use Christian text books and not ATI HS material.

 

Anyone know? I don't see any references to ATI on their website.

[mommaduck]

Is the Maxwell family (The makers of Managers Of There Homes material) Gotherdites? They do look the part and the Dugger family follows their chore chart. I know the Maxwell's use Christian text books and not ATI HS material.

 

Anyone know? I don't see any references to ATI on their website.

 

Not sure. But there are many ties between various groups.

Edited May 28, 2009 by mommaduck

[Jean in Newcastle]

Is the Maxwell family (The makers of Managers Of There Homes material) Gotherdites? They do look the part and the Dugger family follows their chore chart. I know the Maxwell's use Christian text books and not ATI HS material.

 

Anyone know? I don't see any references to ATI on their website.

 

I really, really doubt it. Their testimony (on their website) does not mention anything about Gotherd or the types of things mentioned here. They have talked about some of their choices in dress etc. in their monthly "corners" (newsletters) and these choices are their individual application to their own family of certain principles in the Bible. They do not seem to try to impose those things on others.

[DawnM]

I don't have time to read these right now as I am heading out the door in a bit, but I WILL read these. This is so hard for me to even grasp.....it is all so cult like.

 

Dawn

 

He may have "gotten lucky", but he's run with it. For all his talk of "authority" he has none over him and no one that holds him accountable. He has abused his authority many times. He ignored his brother's sexual advances towards young girls while working at his centers/camps, until it became too much of a ruckus. Kids have been locked up in his "juvenile re-education center" and I have heard horror stories come out of that place. This is no man that simply, "means no harm, just hit it big, thus attacked" issue.

 

http://www.yuricareport.com/Ohio/GothardJuvenileCtrInvestigated.html

 

http://www.rickross.com/groups/gothard.html

 

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=818906&ClientType=Printable

 

http://fornits.com/anonanon/articles/200201/20020116-0.htm

 

 

There are also several "survivor" groups out there for those that were either raised in ATI or sent to the Juvenile Center.

[angela in ohio]

I really, really doubt it. Their testimony (on their website) does not mention anything about Gotherd or the types of things mentioned here. They have talked about some of their choices in dress etc. in their monthly "corners" (newsletters) and these choices are their individual application to their own family of certain principles in the Bible. They do not seem to try to impose those things on others.

 

They have numerous links on their site under "Resources" to programs through IBLP, and that is Gothard's program.

 

ETA: Oops, I thought you were talking about the Duggars not being Gothard-ites. :blushing: I have seen the Maxwells speak several times, and I owuld say with 99% certainty that they are not with Gothard (they never mentioned it or any of the "flags," and they are different in some things.)

Edited May 28, 2009 by angela in ohio

[Blueridge]

Oh, those articles were spine-tingling! Sad, though. I have always felt a little sorry for Mr. Gothard. I was told this by a friend 'in the know', who said he had once found a young lady that he thought would be his life partner, but she turned him down. (I assume he asked her to marry him, not sure about that). I have often wondered if his heavy-handed intrusion into the private lives of families may be due to his own feelings of inadequacy, or perhaps his repressed feelings of wanting a 'perfect' relationship of his own and not having one. This way he had found some way to control and channel his 'energies' into something else. Just random thoughts and pure speculation...

[Leah]

:lol::lol::lol:

 

I gave up on trying to keep my eyes bright and my hair was never styled quite right anyway... I sure wish I hadn't throw out some of that wonderful 80's music I used to have! And do you know how utterly embarrassing it is to have been with a group of ATI'ers and have them ask a crowded restaurant to TURN OFF the music while we ate?!? The amazing memories I have from even a short time...

 

But amazingly enough, people still say I have a great smile, rock music and all!