Does your child ever say this?

[ddandgirls]

I just told my daughter that I think she has given me the classic child answer. I told her to write an outline before starting her paper and she is trying her best to convince me that she can just start writing without an outline.

 

Her comments are: "I don't need an outline. Writing an outline is just not me. I will do better without an outline. Essays are just not my thing. They don't inspire me. Can't I just write a narrative? Let me try to write it this time without an outline and if I do above 95 I won't ever have to write an outline again and if I don't I'll write an outline next time. I've always done fine in the past without writing an outline. I just like to sit down and write."

 

She actually is a very good writer, but I'm trying to explain that as the papers get longer and the research becomes more in depth, she will need an outline because she can't keep it all in order in her head.

 

I was actually laughing at her attempts and she knew it was funny.

 

Does this sound familiar to anyone else?

 

Dannie

[siloam]

Dannie,

 

Yes just yesterday. I didn't budge an inch either. :D

 

Heather

 

[ereks mom]

I insist, and she realizes I'm not going to change my mind, she gives a huge sigh and does it anyway, usually griping periodically until it's done.

[Brenda in MA]

ask all the time about skipping the outline because he didn't see the point. A couple of times, I let him write an essay without the outline, and it ended up requiring more time and more revisions to get it finished. After a couple of attempts and some more maturity, he finally realized by about the 10th grade, that doing the outline first actually saves time in the end.

 

Brenda

[Carol in Cal.]

I never outlined a paper in my school life.

 

I pulled an allnighter to write a 20 page paper for a business class my senior year in college, and got an A. First draft. Was feeding the written pages to the woman who typed it for me as I wrote them and she said that she would type til I ran out of material but was then going to bed, so there was no opportunity to revise.

 

I think that the stress of the deadline really forced my brain to organize the material, albeit unconsciously, and it came out great that way. But, in order for that to happen I literally had to be stressed and panicked. But if I prewrote and did everything slowly, I wrote really, really boring papers.

 

But, I have grown to hate that panicky feeling, complete with underarm pricklings and racing heartbeats. It's just not worth it. So I went waaaaaaaaay back to my boring old outlining lessons from 4th grade, and figured out how to both outline and write engagingly. Much better now.

 

So I do insist that DD try it both ways over the course of a year. I want her to have that tool available to her, but don't want to cramp her style, either.

 

Writer's Jungle has a different take on this. They have a 'jot it down' 'freewriting' style in which you get all your information on paper or in the computer, and then rearrange it, rewrite it, and amplify on parts of it to make your points sparkle. I want DD to know how to do it that way as well. Just another tool in the toolbox, and, frankly, one that fits both her and my style better.

[Storm Bay]

Some people never outline, even some great novelists. I'd say let her try it, and if she gets above a 95, don't push the point. I have one who fights essays tooth and nail every step of the way; however, she'll outline as it means postponing the writing.

 

I never outlined anything unless I had to hand the outline in (I must have somewhere in high school when we were learning how to outline, but I really don't remember doing this) until I did research papers. Then what I did was take notes on 3x5 cards. Once I was done taking notes, I had the rough outline of the whole paper all in my head. I wrote very basic topics on a page, tore it up, & then distributed my 3x5 cards under each of the basic headings. Since I managed to get A term papers in a very strict department, I'd say it worked. To this day, I hate writing detailed outlines.

 

To this day I do a lot of big planning in my head (events, long writing, etc). There is no one way to do this that's always write.

[Storm Bay]

Some people never outline, even some great novelists. I'd say let her try it, and if she gets above a 95, don't push the point. I have one who fights essays tooth and nail every step of the way; however, she'll outline as it means postponing the writing.

 

I never outlined anything unless I had to hand the outline in (I must have somewhere in high school when we were learning how to outline, but I really don't remember doing this) until I did research papers. Then what I did was take notes on 3x5 cards. Once I was done taking notes, I had the rough outline of the whole paper all in my head. I wrote very basic topics on a page, tore it up, & then distributed my 3x5 cards under each of the basic headings. Since I managed to get A term papers in a very strict department, I'd say it worked. To this day, I hate writing detailed outlines.

 

To this day I do a lot of big planning in my head (events, long writing, etc). There is no one way to do this that's always right.

[ddandgirls]

Thanks for the thoughts and different perspectives.

 

I always wrote an outline, even on timed in class essays in college I would jot a very brief, quick outline in the margins or on a piece of scrap paper and then I would write. For me it just helps me know where I am going and when I have finished.

 

She usually does very well and has not written very many outlines to date. I just figured it was a skill she needed to learn and use.

 

I figured she was being stubborn as usual:001_smile:. Maybe I will allow her to do some writing with and some without.

 

Thanks,

Dannie

[Angel]

I never, EVER liked to write an outline. Like a PP said, I only did it if I knew it had to be handed in. I think much better just getting my thoughts on paper. If they needed rearranging from there, then so be it. I just rearranged and rewrote. I was a straight A, Honor's English student. If she CAN do the paper without an outline, I say let her go for it. Outlines are overrated! :lol:

[Tina]

I'm another that never wrote outlines. In fact, I usually just wrote one draft of my papers and got an A most of the time.

 

Now my boys, they need to learn to do the outline. :)

[Nicole M]

If it were me, I would let her write the paper with no outline, then outline it after it was written.

 

I think those of use who are natural writers structure our material in a half-conscious way, and learning to be intentional about the process is a difficult step. Looking back, it might have helped me to make that leap a lot sooner in my life if I'd had to go back and outline all those A papers I wrote from the hip. Don't know for sure, but it is something you could try.

[Mom22ns]

I'm another that never wrote outlines. In fact, I usually just wrote one draft of my papers and got an A most of the time.

 

Now my boys, they need to learn to do the outline. :)

 

:iagree:

I never wrote an outine unless it had to be turned in and I never received less than an A on any paper I've turned in all the way through college.

 

That said, so far I always make my kids do outlines lol.